JAXAshby continues to prove he's a complete idiot:

jeffies, *you* have never seen that canal and never will, not even from the
highway.

You're right. I've never seen it. Neither have you.

what's more, your wife would never let you attempt to pass through it
because you would have to take your mast down at one end and put it back up
(something she would never allow you to do without professional help)

Do you mean like we did in the Erie Canal? Of course, we did have a
professional crane operator to put it back up - this is a serious sized
mast we have. However, the Oswego Marina has a manual crane that they
allow the amateurs to use.

and
because the water is shallow in the bay and the channel is too winding for you
to follow.

Yes - very shallow. Not like the shallow water we had in Florida Bay.
But we know you're terrified of shallow water - you actually claimed it
was impossible to sail down the Chesapeake without local knowledge!



now, listen up jeffies. the height difference between the bays is slight the
current there never gets much above 4 knots either direction.

Why do all of the tide table show the height difference is often two
feet?

Here's a web site -
http://www.tides.com/cgi-bin/tcweb.exe

Even in the more modest tides right now, the difference between the
north side of the canal (Peconic Bay, Shinnecock Canal) and the south
side (Ponquogue Bridge) is about 1.5 feet at 6PM today. The printouts I
saved from 2 weeks ago show a 2 foot difference for most of the day.

And remember, I posted a link to an old report that said the tidal
difference was often 5 feet before the inlet was cut in 1938. The lock
was built some twenty years before that.


That is less
current than either way in The Race (which has no locks and no gates across)
and less current either way than the East River (which has no locks and no
gates across) and about the current through the Verazano Narrows (which has no
locks and no gates across) and one hell of a lot less current than the Harlem
River (which has no locks and no gates across) and about the current of the
Cape Cod canal (which has no locks and no gates across) and just a bit more
current than Block Island Sound (which has no locks and no gates across).

Do you have a point here or are you just trying to show your stupidity?
The decision to put in locks is a combination of factors. For
example, a 4 knot current in a channel a mile wide is a little different
from 4 knots in a cut 100 feet wide.

However, the only reason I mentioned Hell Gate was to point out that
there are numerous places the have a tidal difference of several feet
across a few miles. You seemed to think this is physically impossible.


Now, jeffies, just because some gate tender who may wish to argue for a pay
raise calls a lock a gate no more makes it a lock than some pretentious local
politician (looking for federal funds to maintain it?) calling a gate a lock.

How about the Coast Pilot? What "hidden agenda" do they have?

The CG says it is not a lock

No. They say its a lock. If you want to claim different, post a link.
Otherwise you just an idiot.

and the C of Eng says it is not a lock.

No. the C of Eng says its a lock. I even posted a reference where they
described its action. Again, you're just too much of a coward to admit
you were lying in the beginning.

It is no
more a lock because it is shaped like a lock than a rubber doll is a woman
because it is shaped like a woman.

Finally you brought up a topic where you have some knowledge. We'll
have to take your word about that.

Its a lock because it was built as a lock and continues to function as a
lock. The fact that it is only used to when the current runs north
(as I pointed out in my first post) is not relevant.

jeffies, you are as stew ped as a sheet rock wall. have you -- physics major
you claim to be -- any idea that current is related to just how much difference
in water levels there are?

wanna tell again that an inflatable doll cooks because it has the shape of a
woman?

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/5/2004 5:31 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby continues to prove he's a complete idiot:

jeffies, *you* have never seen that canal and never will, not even from the
highway.

You're right. I've never seen it. Neither have you.

what's more, your wife would never let you attempt to pass through it
because you would have to take your mast down at one end and put it back up
(something she would never allow you to do without professional help)

Do you mean like we did in the Erie Canal? Of course, we did have a
professional crane operator to put it back up - this is a serious sized
mast we have. However, the Oswego Marina has a manual crane that they
allow the amateurs to use.

and
because the water is shallow in the bay and the channel is too winding for
you
to follow.

Yes - very shallow. Not like the shallow water we had in Florida Bay.
But we know you're terrified of shallow water - you actually claimed it
was impossible to sail down the Chesapeake without local knowledge!



now, listen up jeffies. the height difference between the bays is slight
the
current there never gets much above 4 knots either direction.

Why do all of the tide table show the height difference is often two
feet?

Here's a web site -
http://www.tides.com/cgi-bin/tcweb.exe

Even in the more modest tides right now, the difference between the
north side of the canal (Peconic Bay, Shinnecock Canal) and the south
side (Ponquogue Bridge) is about 1.5 feet at 6PM today. The printouts I
saved from 2 weeks ago show a 2 foot difference for most of the day.

And remember, I posted a link to an old report that said the tidal
difference was often 5 feet before the inlet was cut in 1938. The lock
was built some twenty years before that.


That is less
current than either way in The Race (which has no locks and no gates
across)
and less current either way than the East River (which has no locks and no
gates across) and about the current through the Verazano Narrows (which has
no
locks and no gates across) and one hell of a lot less current than the
Harlem
River (which has no locks and no gates across) and about the current of the
Cape Cod canal (which has no locks and no gates across) and just a bit more
current than Block Island Sound (which has no locks and no gates across).

Do you have a point here or are you just trying to show your stupidity?
The decision to put in locks is a combination of factors. For
example, a 4 knot current in a channel a mile wide is a little different
from 4 knots in a cut 100 feet wide.

However, the only reason I mentioned Hell Gate was to point out that
there are numerous places the have a tidal difference of several feet
across a few miles. You seemed to think this is physically impossible.


Now, jeffies, just because some gate tender who may wish to argue for a pay
raise calls a lock a gate no more makes it a lock than some pretentious
local
politician (looking for federal funds to maintain it?) calling a gate a
lock.

How about the Coast Pilot? What "hidden agenda" do they have?

The CG says it is not a lock

No. They say its a lock. If you want to claim different, post a link.
Otherwise you just an idiot.

and the C of Eng says it is not a lock.

No. the C of Eng says its a lock. I even posted a reference where they
described its action. Again, you're just too much of a coward to admit
you were lying in the beginning.

It is no
more a lock because it is shaped like a lock than a rubber doll is a woman
because it is shaped like a woman.

Finally you brought up a topic where you have some knowledge. We'll
have to take your word about that.

Its a lock because it was built as a lock and continues to function as a
lock. The fact that it is only used to when the current runs north
(as I pointed out in my first post) is not relevant.

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, you are as stew ped as a sheet rock wall. have you -- physics major
you claim to be -- any idea that current is related to just how much difference
in water levels there are?


Why don't you explain it to us, jaxie? You keep making a vague allusion
to your difficulty in understanding tides. So what is it - are you
saying that its impossible to have a height difference of a few feet
over a few miles?

Why don't you take a Power Squadron course, and after they explain how
to use a tide table, look up the tides on either side of Hell Gate or
the Cape Cod Canal. And then lookup the Shinnecock Canal. You may not
understand it, but you might finally believe it.

wanna tell again that an inflatable doll cooks because it has the shape of a
woman?

That's your department, jaxie.

wanna tell again that an inflatable doll cooks because it has the shape of
a
woman?

That's your department, jaxie.


I keep forgetting, jeffies, that you don't begin to have the intellectual
capacity to understand metaphor. attempting rational discussion with you is
like attempting same with a dog pile.

JAXAshby wrote:
wanna tell again that an inflatable doll cooks because it has the shape of

a

woman?

That's your department, jaxie.



I keep forgetting, jeffies, that you don't begin to have the intellectual
capacity to understand metaphor. attempting rational discussion with you is
like attempting same with a dog pile.
Yes - you lose to the dog pile also.

and
because the water is shallow in the bay and the channel is too winding for
you
to follow.

Yes - very shallow. Not like the shallow water we had in Florida Bay.

really? Florida Bay is more shallow? How shallow is that, jeffies? Keep in
mind, jeffies, that the dredged channel from the Shinnecock canal to the ocean
outlet is often less than six feet. That is the dredged channel, you fumb
duck. The water either side is often less.

jeffies, attempting rational discussion with you is like attempting same with a
dog pile.

JAXAshby wrote:
and
because the water is shallow in the bay and the channel is too winding for

you

to follow.

Yes - very shallow. Not like the shallow water we had in Florida Bay.


really? Florida Bay is more shallow? How shallow is that, jeffies? Keep in
mind, jeffies, that the dredged channel from the Shinnecock canal to the ocean
outlet is often less than six feet. That is the dredged channel, you fumb
duck. The water either side is often less.

jeffies, attempting rational discussion with you is like attempting same with a
dog pile.

Jaxie, you've just shown us yet another area where you are completely
ignorant. There are large areas of Florida Bay less than 3 feet deep.
The "inside" ICW has long stretches where the "channel" is 5 feet or less.

Shinnecock Bay is "deep water" by comparison. The channel is mostly
straight, with more than a dozen marks in its three miles. The inlet
may be subject to shoaling, but that's not uncommon. Its no surprise
that this is what you think is challenging!

The "inside" ICW has long stretches where the "channel" is 5 feet or less.

The controling depth of the ICW channel is 12 feet. When any spot shallows to
less than 12 feet, the channel is dredged, assuming funds (that means money,
jeffies) are available.

JAXAshby wrote:
The "inside" ICW has long stretches where the "channel" is 5 feet or less.


The controling depth of the ICW channel is 12 feet. When any spot shallows to
less than 12 feet, the channel is dredged, assuming funds (that means money,
jeffies) are available.

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you Jaxie? First
of all, the "controlling depth" goes from 12 feet to 10 feet at Fort
Pierce, Florida. At Miami, it drops down to 7 feet. After Key Largo 5
feet is common. After Marathon the bayside channel sort of ends - its 2
to 3 feet much of the rest of the way to Key West and almost all boats
switch over to the outside channel there. (We won't even get into the
fact that much of the ICW hasn't been close to its "controlling depth"
in decades.) And of course the trip down the inside channel had no
meaning if you don't explore the numerous shallow bays and coves that
are off limits to boats the draw over 3 feet and inexperienced sailors
like you.


And we're talking about a total of 150 miles from Miami to Key West, not
a little channel a couple of miles long. Florida Bay is is about 100
times larger than Shinnecock Bay, and far more challenging.

dog pile, read these words:

"The authorized depth of the ICW is 12ft but funding and budgetary cuts ..."

just as I said.

http://ccc.sailnet.com/newslt2.htm

or these words, dog pile

"The authorized project depth of the AIWW is 12 ft (at low tide) from Norfolk,
VA to Ft. Pierce, FL and 10 feet from Ft. Pierce to Miami. ..."

http://www.atlintracoastal.org/WW_Facts.htm