|
A link to Pat's most excellent site ... http://boating.ncf.ca/equipment.html ... and a link to transport canada .... http://www.tc.gc.ca/BoatingSafety/sbg-gsn/distress.htm ... take a look at type B, multi-star.
"Steve Schwartz" wrote in message ... I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve |
I have been sailing in Canada (40 yrs) and have had a flare pistol aboard (coast guard inspected) for the last 15 yrs. They are commonly used here.
Yes, they are a danger if pointed at a person. About lethal, I can't comment, other than to suggest that any flare launched at a person would be a very serious incident. "Steve Schwartz" wrote in message ... I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve |
I have crossed the border into Canada several times with flare pistols
and bear spray and noxious cleaning chemicals and who knows what else I could get in trouble with in Canada. I have had no trouble and I declare all when I cross the border. I also bring some documentation about the bear spray and a float plan showing I'm off to the remote sections of Alaska or Ontario, not some bar in Vancouver. I've had a lot less trouble with Canadian authorities than I have with the folks on the US side. Yes, flare pistols can be a weapon, as can boat hooks, anchors, regular flares, chlorine, hot oil, an anchor rode and any number of the devices and chemicals I have onboard. Be straight with these folks and you won't have any trouble. Capt. Jeff |
On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:46:38 GMT, "Steve Schwartz"
wrote: I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. Yep, same here, depending on the boat size. Probably Orion brand. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Well, maybe they can be "weapons", but so can my fid if I jam it in an eye socket. I am not aware that Canada gives a damn about flare pistols...as long as it IS a flare pistol (plasticy orange things) and not a sawed-off shotgun...which could be conceivably USED as a flare pistol. G Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? It was in the movie "Dead Calm", but I won't spoil the ending for you. Sure, why not? Those shells are powerful enough to get to a couple of hundred feet up, so I bet getting one in the nads at close range would compromise fatherhood and lead to a blinding headache. Also, I recall that older flare pistols were metal and generally heavier. They might be able to take a real 12-gauge shotgun shell, and thus would make a plausible weapon. Lousy aim, though. Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Maybe once out of an Orion flare pistol, before it melted, blew apart or fell to pieces. The "standard" modern flare gun is "light-duty" only. A shotgun shell is more powerful by far than a flare shell. They are, however, the same size, I believe. Are the flare shells lethal? See above. Picture maybe 20 firecrackers in one package. Is it a danger to anyone? If one goes off in the boat, it's bad. If all twelve in a standard package go off due to a fire or something, it would probably kill crew with the toxic smoke and the burning of the flare in an enclosed space might set the fiberglass on fire...certainly the settees... Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? All I know is from "flare-offs" run by my boat club in which out-of-date flares are disposed of under supervision. We are adjacent to a small airport, and we had to get permission from them (because firing into a flight path would be nasty) and from the cops because we wanted them to ignore what looked like about a hundred SOS signals in five minutes. Very festive, loud and it took a week for the gulls to resume crapping. R. |
"rhys" wrote in message ... hugh snip All I know is from "flare-offs" run by my boat club in which out-of-date flares are disposed of under supervision. We are adjacent to a small airport, and we had to get permission from them (because firing into a flight path would be nasty) and from the cops because we wanted them to ignore what looked like about a hundred SOS signals in five minutes. Very festive, loud and it took a week for the gulls to resume crapping. R. That should give Parallax food for thought! |
On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:46:38 GMT, "Steve Schwartz"
wrote (with possible editing): I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? I am not a lawyer but: I can't imagine that they are considered a weapon since they are REQUIRED by Canadian authorities. See them discussed he http://www.tc.gc.ca/BoatingSafety/sbg-gsn/distress.htm and the regulation he http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...BFBE.XEFTID.E2 see section 16.02. -- Larry Email to rapp at lmr dot com |
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:18:17 -0400,
rhys wrote: On Sat, 09 Oct 2004 23:46:38 GMT, "Steve Schwartz" wrote: I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. Yep, same here, depending on the boat size. Probably Orion brand. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Well, maybe they can be "weapons", but so can my fid if I jam it in an eye socket. I am not aware that Canada gives a damn about flare pistols...as long as it IS a flare pistol (plasticy orange things) and not a sawed-off shotgun...which could be conceivably USED as a flare pistol. G Our flare pistol (well, one, we have a backup also) is an old USN issue from WWII era, and while I don't think I'd want to be the one pulling the trigger, (the breach looks none too secure for the higher pressures of a 12ga shell) It *will* chamber, and I presume, would fire. Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? It was in the movie "Dead Calm", but I won't spoil the ending for you. Sure, why not? Those shells are powerful enough to get to a couple of hundred feet up, so I bet getting one in the nads at close range would compromise fatherhood and lead to a blinding headache. Also, I recall that older flare pistols were metal and generally heavier. They might be able to take a real 12-gauge shotgun shell, and thus would make a plausible weapon. Lousy aim, though. Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Maybe once out of an Orion flare pistol, before it melted, blew apart or fell to pieces. The "standard" modern flare gun is "light-duty" only. A shotgun shell is more powerful by far than a flare shell. They are, however, the same size, I believe. Actually, flares of this type, are shorter than std 12ga shells, and thus, most of the plastic doodads won't chamber a 12ga shell. Then this company in Mexico (I think) started making mini length 12ga shells... But the plastic flare projectors would last just long enough to blow up in your hand. No way could the barrel or breech contain that pressure level. snip -- Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock To err is human...to really foul up requires the root password. |
From what I understand a flare will generally bounce off the chest of a
person. Not a good weapon. You can purchase an insert that will accomodate a .410 shell to be used in a 25mm flaregun, but not the cheezy plastic flare guns. Doug s/v Callista "Steve Schwartz" wrote in message ... I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve |
I think that was a parachute flare, AKA rocket that they used in that movie.
Still doubt it would have the effect in real life as it did in the cinema. If you tried to fire a regular 12 gage shell in a flare gun, I bet you'd lose your hand when it blew up. It would be about the same as if you just held the shell in a pair of vice grips and hit the primer with a hammer. Someone used to make a metal sleeve for this purpose though. You just inserted it into the plastic barrell and it supposedly was strong enough for you to fire a 12 gage shell. Don't know where you could find one though. I suppose in a pinch it's better than nothing, but if somebody is coming at you armed, it'd probably just **** them off and make them kill you. -- Keith __ Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself. It was in the movie "Dead Calm", but I won't spoil the ending for you. Sure, why not? Those shells are powerful enough to get to a couple of hundred feet up, so I bet getting one in the nads at close range would compromise fatherhood and lead to a blinding headache. Also, I recall that older flare pistols were metal and generally heavier. They might be able to take a real 12-gauge shotgun shell, and thus would make a plausible weapon. Lousy aim, though. Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? |
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message ...
From what I understand a flare will generally bounce off the chest of a person. Not a good weapon. You can purchase an insert that will accomodate a .410 shell to be used in a 25mm flaregun, but not the cheezy plastic flare guns. Doug s/v Callista "Steve Schwartz" wrote in message news:yL ... I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve -- BF: Huh? If you want my opinion, a flare from a 12 guage Orion wouldn't stop anybody. Even fired in the boat (no gasoline), it wouldn't do much as you could quickly put it out. Now, the 25 mm flares, i dunno. It would be very easy to make a 12 guage flare gun that could fire 410 shells. I know little about firearms but I imagine a real 12 guage shell would jerk a lightweight flare gun out of your hands even if it didnt blow up. |
Comments below,
Doug s/v Callista "Keith" wrote in message ... I think that was a parachute flare, AKA rocket that they used in that movie. Still doubt it would have the effect in real life as it did in the cinema. If you tried to fire a regular 12 gage shell in a flare gun, I bet you'd lose your hand when it blew up. It would be about the same as if you just held the shell in a pair of vice grips and hit the primer with a hammer. Doubt if you could fire one that way. Someone used to make a metal sleeve for this purpose though. You just inserted it into the plastic barrell and it supposedly was strong enough for you to fire a 12 gage shell. Don't know where you could find one though. I researched these extensively. None were 12ga intended for use in a 12ga plastic flare gun. All were designed for a 25mm flaregun. The only ones I found accomodated a .410 shell. I heard that there was one using a 16ga shell but I was never able to track it down. I suppose in a pinch it's better than nothing, but if somebody is coming at you armed, it'd probably just **** them off and make them kill you. Just make sure you hit them in the face. Not a very reliable means of self defense. Moral... If you are serious about self defense, get a gun and learn how to use it. -- Keith __ Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself. It was in the movie "Dead Calm", but I won't spoil the ending for you. Sure, why not? Those shells are powerful enough to get to a couple of hundred feet up, so I bet getting one in the nads at close range would compromise fatherhood and lead to a blinding headache. Also, I recall that older flare pistols were metal and generally heavier. They might be able to take a real 12-gauge shotgun shell, and thus would make a plausible weapon. Lousy aim, though. Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? |
Agreed, but I'm not sure that even a .410 shell fired out of an
Orion plastic gun would be safe. All the adapters I saw used ..410 shells and fit into a 25mm gun. "Parallax" wrote in message om... "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... From what I understand a flare will generally bounce off the chest of a person. Not a good weapon. You can purchase an insert that will accomodate a .410 shell to be used in a 25mm flaregun, but not the cheezy plastic flare guns. Doug s/v Callista "Steve Schwartz" wrote in message news:yL ... I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve -- BF: Huh? If you want my opinion, a flare from a 12 guage Orion wouldn't stop anybody. Even fired in the boat (no gasoline), it wouldn't do much as you could quickly put it out. Now, the 25 mm flares, i dunno. It would be very easy to make a 12 guage flare gun that could fire 410 shells. I know little about firearms but I imagine a real 12 guage shell would jerk a lightweight flare gun out of your hands even if it didnt blow up. |
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message ...
Agreed, but I'm not sure that even a .410 shell fired out of an Orion plastic gun would be safe. All the adapters I saw used .410 shells and fit into a 25mm gun. "Parallax" wrote in message om... "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... From what I understand a flare will generally bounce off the chest of a person. Not a good weapon. You can purchase an insert that will accomodate a .410 shell to be used in a 25mm flaregun, but not the cheezy plastic flare guns. Doug s/v Callista I even have doubts about the orange plastic guns holding up for more than about 6 flares but you have to try them out because Orion has had so many bad ones that wont fire. The only way you could use one of htese as a weapon would be if your enemy obliged you by dousing himself with gasoline. Other than that, your best bet would be to just throw the gun at him. "Steve Schwartz" wrote in message news:yL ... I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve -- BF: Huh? If you want my opinion, a flare from a 12 guage Orion wouldn't stop anybody. Even fired in the boat (no gasoline), it wouldn't do much as you could quickly put it out. Now, the 25 mm flares, i dunno. It would be very easy to make a 12 guage flare gun that could fire 410 shells. I know little about firearms but I imagine a real 12 guage shell would jerk a lightweight flare gun out of your hands even if it didnt blow up. |
I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a flare gun
setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first suggested to me I was in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big barrel cactus. It blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the best but in most countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a hurry. I would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good as this one in my opinion. I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve -- BF: Huh? If you want my opinion, a flare from a 12 guage Orion wouldn't stop anybody. Even fired in the boat (no gasoline), it wouldn't do much as you could quickly put it out. Now, the 25 mm flares, i dunno. It would be very easy to make a 12 guage flare gun that could fire 410 shells. I know little about firearms but I imagine a real 12 guage shell would jerk a lightweight flare gun out of your hands even if it didnt blow up. |
Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock
someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? Doug s/v Callista "RWKxxx" wrote in message ... I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a flare gun setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first suggested to me I was in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big barrel cactus. It blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the best but in most countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a hurry. I would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good as this one in my opinion. I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told by West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are "weapons." Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a danger to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any info? -- Steve -- BF: Huh? If you want my opinion, a flare from a 12 guage Orion wouldn't stop anybody. Even fired in the boat (no gasoline), it wouldn't do much as you could quickly put it out. Now, the 25 mm flares, i dunno. It would be very easy to make a 12 guage flare gun that could fire 410 shells. I know little about firearms but I imagine a real 12 guage shell would jerk a lightweight flare gun out of your hands even if it didnt blow up. |
In "Doug Dotson" writes:
Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
And if you don't kill them (him, her, ?) then you might be dead.
If you settle for a knock down, then how fast and how many times can you reload your flare pistol? You choose. Doug "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
In "Doug Dotson" writes:
You seems to like to kill people. I understand why your teenagers have to start shooting wildly around when they get into school, perhaps that is the only time they can do it first. Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them. - Lauri Tarkkonen And if you don't kill them (him, her, ?) then you might be dead. If you settle for a knock down, then how fast and how many times can you reload your flare pistol? You choose. Doug "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
My teenagers are not teenagers anymore. Not aware that they ever
shot anyone at school. Not aware that GWB has authorized any sales and use of automatic weapons. The assault weapons that were banned and are now not banned are not now and never were automatic weapons. The assault weapons ban had absolutely no affect on crime. That is why no politician was interested in standing behind its renewal. GWB had no power in any regard. Laws are made by Congress, not by the President. Doug s/v Callista "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: You seems to like to kill people. I understand why your teenagers have to start shooting wildly around when they get into school, perhaps that is the only time they can do it first. Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them. - Lauri Tarkkonen And if you don't kill them (him, her, ?) then you might be dead. If you settle for a knock down, then how fast and how many times can you reload your flare pistol? You choose. Doug "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
There are only two ways that a flaregun makes a good defensive weapon:
1. You also have a high-pressure hose connected to your fuel system and can first douse him/her/it with gas or diesel fuel. OR 2. You can shove the flaregun down his mouth before popping the cap. Just make sure if you choose (1) that you don't score an "own goal". :) -- -- Karl Denninger ) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.net My home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.com Musings Of A Sentient Mind In article , Doug Dotson wrote: And if you don't kill them (him, her, ?) then you might be dead. If you settle for a knock down, then how fast and how many times can you reload your flare pistol? You choose. Doug "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
What happened to GWB's power of veto? Hey, just because 60+% of the
country was against letting the ban expire, who cares, right?!? Cowbow up! -- Geoff "Doug Dotson" wrote in : My teenagers are not teenagers anymore. Not aware that they ever shot anyone at school. Not aware that GWB has authorized any sales and use of automatic weapons. The assault weapons that were banned and are now not banned are not now and never were automatic weapons. The assault weapons ban had absolutely no affect on crime. That is why no politician was interested in standing behind its renewal. GWB had no power in any regard. Laws are made by Congress, not by the President. Doug s/v Callista "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: You seems to like to kill people. I understand why your teenagers have to start shooting wildly around when they get into school, perhaps that is the only time they can do it first. Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them. - Lauri Tarkkonen And if you don't kill them (him, her, ?) then you might be dead. If you settle for a knock down, then how fast and how many times can you reload your flare pistol? You choose. Doug "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
GWB can only veto a bill that has been placed before him after
being passed by the House and the Senate. No one in Congress introduced legislation to renew the ban. I assumed that you are American and understand how our govenment operates. Sorry. Doug "Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message 7... What happened to GWB's power of veto? Hey, just because 60+% of the country was against letting the ban expire, who cares, right?!? Cowbow up! -- Geoff "Doug Dotson" wrote in : My teenagers are not teenagers anymore. Not aware that they ever shot anyone at school. Not aware that GWB has authorized any sales and use of automatic weapons. The assault weapons that were banned and are now not banned are not now and never were automatic weapons. The assault weapons ban had absolutely no affect on crime. That is why no politician was interested in standing behind its renewal. GWB had no power in any regard. Laws are made by Congress, not by the President. Doug s/v Callista "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: You seems to like to kill people. I understand why your teenagers have to start shooting wildly around when they get into school, perhaps that is the only time they can do it first. Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them. - Lauri Tarkkonen And if you don't kill them (him, her, ?) then you might be dead. If you settle for a knock down, then how fast and how many times can you reload your flare pistol? You choose. Doug "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
|
I have a 25mm flaregun and some flares that are about to go
out of date. I'll have some fun and get back to the group. Doug s/v Callista "Parallax" wrote in message om... (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen I have firedd probably about 24 flares from these things (12 guage) and there is no way thye coulda put a hole in more than a newspaper. Maybe this person is using a magnum version (25 mm), dunno. |
Doug Dotson wrote:
GWB can only veto a bill that has been placed before him after being passed by the House and the Senate. correction: GWB can only veto a bill that has been placed before him _only_ after being rewritten into comic book format, and only after one of daddy's handlers has explained what a "veto" is. |
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made up to ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense. Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you fell for it. -- Keith __ A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A 'great' return is one after which they can use the boat again. "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
Doug,
Sorry to say you are wrong here. Logic and truth have no place in American Politics today, if they ever did. "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... GWB can only veto a bill that has been placed before him after being passed by the House and the Senate. No one in Congress introduced legislation to renew the ban. I assumed that you are American and understand how our govenment operates. Sorry. Doug "Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote in message 7... What happened to GWB's power of veto? Hey, just because 60+% of the country was against letting the ban expire, who cares, right?!? Cowbow up! -- Geoff "Doug Dotson" wrote in : My teenagers are not teenagers anymore. Not aware that they ever shot anyone at school. Not aware that GWB has authorized any sales and use of automatic weapons. The assault weapons that were banned and are now not banned are not now and never were automatic weapons. The assault weapons ban had absolutely no affect on crime. That is why no politician was interested in standing behind its renewal. GWB had no power in any regard. Laws are made by Congress, not by the President. Doug s/v Callista "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: You seems to like to kill people. I understand why your teenagers have to start shooting wildly around when they get into school, perhaps that is the only time they can do it first. Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them. - Lauri Tarkkonen And if you don't kill them (him, her, ?) then you might be dead. If you settle for a knock down, then how fast and how many times can you reload your flare pistol? You choose. Doug "Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message ... In "Doug Dotson" writes: Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an attacker. Not sure how a flare gun is better? In many cases it might be better to just knock the attacker down, if you kill him you might be in real deep trouble. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:25:54 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote: I have a 25mm flaregun and some flares that are about to go out of date. I'll have some fun and get back to the group. Doug s/v Callista Call your Coast Guard first. They don't like false alarms G |
In article ,
"Geoffrey W. Schultz" wrote: What happened to GWB's power of veto? Hey, just because 60+% of the country was against letting the ban expire, who cares, right?!? Cowbow up! -- Geoff Nope, not even close. 60+% of those polled by the Brady Bunch were opposed, and Congress couldn't even get a major minority to support its reinactment. I got mine before the Ban went into effect, many years before....... Me |
Testing a flaregun as a weapon doesn't really entail firing it
into the air unless you are being attacked by paratroopers. "rhys" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:25:54 -0400, "Doug Dotson" wrote: I have a 25mm flaregun and some flares that are about to go out of date. I'll have some fun and get back to the group. Doug s/v Callista Call your Coast Guard first. They don't like false alarms G |
Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol.
"RWKxxx" wrote in message ... | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a long time | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to have a gun | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special places that I | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to board me | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and would take to | long in that type of emergency. | | From: "Doug Dotson" | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an | attacker. | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | Doug | s/v Callista | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | ... | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a flare | gun | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first suggested to me I | was | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big barrel cactus. | It | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the best but in | most | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a hurry. I | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good as this | one | in my opinion. | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told | by | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | "weapons." | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a | danger | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any | info? | | -- | Steve | | -- | |
Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example
is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs) decision. Doug "Garuda" wrote in message ... Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol. "RWKxxx" wrote in message ... | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a long time | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to have a gun | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special places that I | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to board me | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and would take to | long in that type of emergency. | | From: "Doug Dotson" | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might knock | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an | attacker. | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | Doug | s/v Callista | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | ... | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a flare | gun | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first suggested to me I | was | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big barrel cactus. | It | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the best but in | most | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a hurry. I | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good as this | one | in my opinion. | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was told | by | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | "weapons." | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it shoot | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a | danger | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd appreciate any | info? | | -- | Steve | | -- | |
At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own
safety. In port is another matter. "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs) decision. | | Doug | | "Garuda" wrote in message | ... | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol. | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | ... | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a long | time | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to have a | gun | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special places | that I | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to board | me | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and would | take | to | | long in that type of emergency. | | | | From: "Doug Dotson" | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might | knock | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an | | attacker. | | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | | | Doug | | s/v Callista | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | ... | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a | flare | | gun | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first suggested to | me I | | was | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big barrel | cactus. | | It | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the best | but | in | | most | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a | hurry. I | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good as | this | | one | | in my opinion. | | | | | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was | told | | by | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | | "weapons." | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it | shoot | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a | | danger | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd | appreciate | any | | info? | | | | -- | | Steve | | | | -- | | | | | | |
Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum
is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true "Garuda" wrote in message ... At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own safety. In port is another matter. "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs) decision. | | Doug | | "Garuda" wrote in message | ... | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol. | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | ... | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a long | time | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to have a | gun | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special places | that I | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to board | me | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and would | take | to | | long in that type of emergency. | | | | From: "Doug Dotson" | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might | knock | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually kill an | | attacker. | | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | | | Doug | | s/v Callista | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | ... | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a | flare | | gun | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first suggested to | me I | | was | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big barrel | cactus. | | It | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the best | but | in | | most | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a | hurry. I | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good as | this | | one | | in my opinion. | | | | | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, Lake | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I was | told | | by | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | | "weapons." | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it | shoot | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is it a | | danger | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd | appreciate | any | | info? | | | | -- | | Steve | | | | -- | | | | | | |
Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I
believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the act. "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... | Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum | is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | ... | At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own | safety. In port is another matter. | "Doug Dotson" wrote in message | ... | | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example | | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs) decision. | | | | Doug | | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | | ... | | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol. | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | ... | | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a | long | | time | | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to | have | a | | gun | | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special | places | | that I | | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to | board | | me | | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and | would | | take | | to | | | long in that type of emergency. | | | | | | From: "Doug Dotson" | | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might | | knock | | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually | kill | an | | | attacker. | | | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | | | | | Doug | | | s/v Callista | | | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | | ... | | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a | | flare | | | gun | | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first | suggested | to | | me I | | | was | | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big | barrel | | cactus. | | | It | | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the | best | | but | | in | | | most | | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a | | hurry. I | | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good | as | | this | | | one | | | in my opinion. | | | | | | | | | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, | Lake | | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I | was | | told | | | by | | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | | | "weapons." | | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it | | shoot | | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is | it | a | | | danger | | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd | | appreciate | | any | | | info? | | | | | | -- | | | Steve | | | | | | -- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think
a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within. Doug s/v Callista "Garuda" wrote in message ... Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the act. "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... | Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum | is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | ... | At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own | safety. In port is another matter. | "Doug Dotson" wrote in message | ... | | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example | | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs) decision. | | | | Doug | | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | | ... | | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol. | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | ... | | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a | long | | time | | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to | have | a | | gun | | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special | places | | that I | | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to | board | | me | | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and | would | | take | | to | | | long in that type of emergency. | | | | | | From: "Doug Dotson" | | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might | | knock | | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually | kill | an | | | attacker. | | | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | | | | | Doug | | | s/v Callista | | | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | | ... | | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a | | flare | | | gun | | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first | suggested | to | | me I | | | was | | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big | barrel | | cactus. | | | It | | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the | best | | but | | in | | | most | | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a | | hurry. I | | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good | as | | this | | | one | | | in my opinion. | | | | | | | | | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, | Lake | | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I | was | | told | | | by | | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | | | "weapons." | | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it | | shoot | | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is | it | a | | | danger | | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd | | appreciate | | any | | | info? | | | | | | -- | | | Steve | | | | | | -- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In article
, "Garuda" wrote: At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own safety. In port is another matter. Bzzzzt, Wrong, At Sea, The government is the Flag of your vessel. You are subject to that flag no matter where you go in the world. they may not be around to enforce their Laws on you directly, but you actions can and do come under their preview, and you can be prosecuted for violations of their Laws upon your return or boarding by their At Sea LEO's. Me |
Of course, it may not matter how much actual damage a flare gun would do.
(But my common sense tells me it could be pretty nasty fired at someone's face--and I would have time to reload. Would you want another round between the cheeks?) Guns in general may be more effective as symbols than when actually detonated. As long as the intruder sees the gun and believes that it will injure them it is worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned. This might be effective. E.g. drunk teenagers looking for some fun harassing a boater could be disuaded from continuing their insults without ever having to fire a shot oops I mean flare at them. If I were attacked by pirates or really serious criminals, I would not be able to defend myself no matter what weapons I had. (Are there pirates on Lake Ontario?) It's the casual intruder with malicious intent that is the one I might be able to deal with. And frankly I do not want to be simply at the mercy of a "merely" malicious intruder, etc. I think all in all a flare pistol might not be a bad idea as a self-defense "weapon" since actual guns seem to have too many negatives. It at least is something--a symbol, a threat, an unknown to the intruder who will not want to find out how effective it is. Cheers, Steve "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within. Doug s/v Callista "Garuda" wrote in message ... Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the act. "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... | Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum | is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | ... | At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own | safety. In port is another matter. | "Doug Dotson" wrote in message | ... | | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example | | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs) decision. | | | | Doug | | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | | ... | | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol. | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | ... | | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a | long | | time | | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to | have | a | | gun | | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special | places | | that I | | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to | board | | me | | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and | would | | take | | to | | | long in that type of emergency. | | | | | | From: "Doug Dotson" | | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might | | knock | | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually | kill | an | | | attacker. | | | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | | | | | Doug | | | s/v Callista | | | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | | ... | | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a | | flare | | | gun | | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first | suggested | to | | me I | | | was | | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big | barrel | | cactus. | | | It | | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the | best | | but | | in | | | most | | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a | | hurry. I | | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good | as | | this | | | one | | | in my opinion. | | | | | | | | | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, | Lake | | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I | was | | told | | | by | | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | | | "weapons." | | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it | | shoot | | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is | it | a | | | danger | | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd | | appreciate | | any | | | info? | | | | | | -- | | | Steve | | | | | | -- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
The deterrent value of a firearm is well known. That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc) the crime rates are high. Even Washington DC has finally come to its senses and is eliminating the ban of private ownership of guns. Anyway, this is a subject for a different thread/group. Doug s/v Callista "Steve Schwartz" wrote in message ... Of course, it may not matter how much actual damage a flare gun would do. (But my common sense tells me it could be pretty nasty fired at someone's face--and I would have time to reload. Would you want another round between the cheeks?) Guns in general may be more effective as symbols than when actually detonated. As long as the intruder sees the gun and believes that it will injure them it is worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned. This might be effective. E.g. drunk teenagers looking for some fun harassing a boater could be disuaded from continuing their insults without ever having to fire a shot oops I mean flare at them. If I were attacked by pirates or really serious criminals, I would not be able to defend myself no matter what weapons I had. (Are there pirates on Lake Ontario?) It's the casual intruder with malicious intent that is the one I might be able to deal with. And frankly I do not want to be simply at the mercy of a "merely" malicious intruder, etc. I think all in all a flare pistol might not be a bad idea as a self-defense "weapon" since actual guns seem to have too many negatives. It at least is something--a symbol, a threat, an unknown to the intruder who will not want to find out how effective it is. Cheers, Steve "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within. Doug s/v Callista "Garuda" wrote in message ... Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the act. "Doug Dotson" wrote in message ... | Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum | is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | ... | At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own | safety. In port is another matter. | "Doug Dotson" wrote in message | ... | | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example | | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs) decision. | | | | Doug | | | | "Garuda" wrote in message | | ... | | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol. | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | ... | | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for a | long | | time | | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to | have | a | | gun | | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special | places | | that I | | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were to | board | | me | | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and | would | | take | | to | | | long in that type of emergency. | | | | | | From: "Doug Dotson" | | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes. Might | | knock | | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually | kill | an | | | attacker. | | | Not sure how a flare gun is better? | | | | | | Doug | | | s/v Callista | | | | | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message | | | ... | | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always had a | | flare | | | gun | | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first | suggested | to | | me I | | | was | | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big | barrel | | cactus. | | | It | | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the | best | | but | | in | | | most | | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it in a | | hurry. I | | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as good | as | | this | | | one | | | in my opinion. | | | | | | | | | | | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State, | Lake | | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard. I | was | | told | | | by | | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they are | | | "weapons." | | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can it | | shoot | | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal? Is | it | a | | | danger | | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd | | appreciate | | any | | | info? | | | | | | -- | | | Steve | | | | | | -- | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
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