Assuming dead men tell tales.

"Me" wrote in message
...

| Bzzzzt, Wrong, At Sea, The government is the Flag of your vessel. You
| are subject to that flag no matter where you go in the world. they may
| not be around to enforce their Laws on you directly, but you actions can
| and do come under their preview, and you can be prosecuted for
| violations of their Laws upon your return or boarding by their At Sea
| LEO's.
|
|
| Me

some ****head powerboater fired a 12 gauge flare into my jibsail, flare
bouncing off and into the water. sail had slightest indication of soot (though
I had caught the ****er who shot it I would have used "necessary force" to keep
him down until the cops got there. Unfortunately, it was lite winds and he
hightailed out of sight.)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don;t think
a flare will even peretrate clothes let alone the person within.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Garuda" wrote in message
...
Thanks for acquiescing regarding the 44 magnum with tracers. However, I
believe the original thread dealt with flareguns and then migrated to an
inability of plastic gun to be used as a weapon. My point, albeit a bit
oblique, is penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the act.

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
| Fine, get a gun and a flaregun. Your implication is that a 44 Magnum
| is somehow an acceptable flaregun for legal purposes. Not true
|
|
| "Garuda" wrote in message
| ...
| At sea, there is no government, therefore I am responsible for my own
| safety. In port is another matter.
| "Doug Dotson" wrote in message
| ...
| | Doesn't matter what you or I think is a good flaregun (your example
| | is a pretty poor one). It the government's (ours or theirs)
decision.
| |
| | Doug
| |
| | "Garuda" wrote in message
| | ...
| | Consider a 44 magnum with tracer rounds as a flare pistol.
| |
| | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | ...
| | | Doug, I agree the flare gun may not kill or put someone down for
a
| long
| | time
| | | but in my case I was in foreign countries were it was illegal to
| have
| a
| | gun
| | | aboard. I could have loaded flare guns laying around in special
| places
| | that I
| | | could grab and shut it to fire in an emergency if someone were
to
| board
| | me
| | | unexpectedly. I did have a gun but it was hidden to far way and
| would
| | take
| | to
| | | long in that type of emergency.
| | |
| | | From: "Doug Dotson"
| | | Cactuses (sp?) have pretty soft flesh and don't wear clothes.
Might
| | knock
| | | someone down but not kill them. The other options will actually
| kill
| an
| | | attacker.
| | | Not sure how a flare gun is better?
| | |
| | | Doug
| | | s/v Callista
| | |
| | | "RWKxxx" wrote in message
| | | ...
| | | I spent 14 yrs cruising central and South America and always
had
a
| | flare
| | | gun
| | | setting were I could get to it fast. When this was first
| suggested
| to
| | me I
| | | was
| | | in Mexico and took a flare gun ashore and aimed it at a big
| barrel
| | cactus.
| | | It
| | | blew a hole half way through it. A flare gun might not be the
| best
| | but
| | in
| | | most
| | | countries it is legal and you can put it were you can get it
in
a
| | hurry. I
| | | would hate to be shot with one. The other options are not as
good
| as
| | this
| | | one
| | | in my opinion.
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | | I have a little flare pistol on my boat (in New York State,
| Lake
| | | Ontario). I believe this is required by US Coast Guard.
I
| was
| | told
| | | by
| | | West Marine that we cannot take these to Canada as they
are
| | | "weapons."
| | | Is this true? Can this pistol be used as a weapon? Can
it
| | shoot
| | | regular shot gun shells? Are the flare shells lethal?
Is
| it
| a
| | | danger
| | | to anyone? Does anyone know anything about this? I'd
| | appreciate
| | any
| | | info?
| | |
| | | --
| | | Steve
| | |
| | | --
| | |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

Guns in general may be more effective as symbols than when actually
detonated.

I saw a fully trained Marine holding a cocked .45 colt Hollywood stunt gun at
chest level on a stunt man (a USMC Reservist) hands by his side, a single
action (meaning the gun had to have the hammer pulled back by hand in order to
be fired) stunt gun on either hip, draw, cock and fire each gun twice before
the Marine at the ready and waiting to pull the trigger could pull even once.

As long as the intruder sees the gun and believes that it will
injure them it is worth its weight in gold as far as I'm concerned.

not worth its weight in lead, to a man who knows that most people can't fire
even once in a fraction of a second.

be careful guy.

Doug Dotson wrote:
The deterrent value of a firearm is well known.

oh horse**** you dufus

That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc)
the crime rates are high.

let's see, murders per year in America = 11,000+
murders per year in England 100-200

pull your head out of your arse and breathe will you

prod, you don't seem to understand the nature of doug's usual postings.


prodigal1
Date: 10/14/2004 10:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Doug Dotson wrote:
The deterrent value of a firearm is well known.

oh horse**** you dufus

That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc)
the crime rates are high.

let's see, murders per year in America = 11,000+
murders per year in England 100-200

pull your head out of your arse and breathe will you

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after each
fired round.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after
each
fired round.

That would be a semi-automatic weapon. The term automatic is generally
considered to mean fully-automatic.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Yes, but look at home invasions in England. Murder isn't the only crime
there is. Also, merders per capita might be a more useful statistic. Total
murders is a useless one.

Doug


"prodigal1" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:
The deterrent value of a firearm is well known.

oh horse**** you dufus

That's why in
areas where handguns have been banned (Wash DC, England, etc)
the crime rates are high.

let's see, murders per year in America = 11,000+
murders per year in England 100-200

pull your head out of your arse and breathe will you

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:33:10 GMT, "Garuda" wrote:

Assuming dead men tell tales.

Isn't that the basis of all those forensics-based cop shows on TV
lately? Dead men are responsible for hundreds of scripts a year, it
seems. Even the "floaters".

R.

In article EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06,
"Eric Currier" wrote:

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and military
hands.

This MAY be true in your state, but in SOME States, it is Illegal to
posses or own a Full Auto Firearm, no matter who you are.

Me

JAX, by your defination "automatic" weapons have never been banned, and for
the record neither has fully automatic weapons (machine guns).
Yes, there is a $250.00 yearly fee to own one and a lot of scrutiny...but
the fact remains there are more FULLY automatic weapons in civilian hands
than there are in both law enforcment and military combined. And they are
legal.
The gun people use "semi-automatic" to define guns that are self loaders,
but have a disconect sear so that the trigger must be released before the
next cartrige will fire. They use "automatic" to define a self loading gun
that automatically fires the next round until the trigger is released.

But this is off the subject, the question was if a flare gun is a weapon.

Eric

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after
each
fired round.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not
understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing
the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Jax and I rarely agree. This time it's complete agreement and probably more
especially in the uneducated or perhaps intentional misuse of the terms
automatic and assault.

1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than the
alternatives.

2. Second why would you want to do so? If you are in your own country and
it's legal (and necessary) by something descent.

3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a weapon
is necessary why are you going there? Strikes me the same as going to
certain parts of town atcertain times with a lot of $100 bills poking out of
your pocket. To much of the world that's the face we present just by being
on a 'yacht,' and no matter if we scrimped and saved for 20 years to own
that 26
foot long 30 year old sloop or that the single $100 bill is all we have.

4. If you take a weapon to another country there are five considerations all
negative and none which are positive.

First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.

Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from you
and secured until you leave.

Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again) and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

Fourth If you didn't declare the weapon and it's found the best you can
hope for is deportation and confiscation of property including your boat.
That's the normal penalty for smuggling and illegal arms possession.

Fifth if you didn't declare the weapon and use it plan, at best, on an
extended stay in one of their special hotels and reread Numbers One, Three,
and Four again.

So my point is . ... if it's that dangerous why go there? Plenty of places
in the world without trying to match your home made zip gun against real
weaponry and your probable inability to use same when your opponent has no
problem killing you.

On the other hand if you really feel the need to go . . .do so. But as for
assistance. . . my number will be busy.


Michael
S/V Se Langt

(for the record 20 years infantry and 3 years police officer)

PS There is a sixth consideration, known to those few who have really had to
use these tools for their intended purpose. Think about it.

Well Stated!

Doug
s/v Callista

"Michael" wrote in message
...
Jax and I rarely agree. This time it's complete agreement and probably
more
especially in the uneducated or perhaps intentional misuse of the terms
automatic and assault.

1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than the
alternatives.

2. Second why would you want to do so? If you are in your own country
and
it's legal (and necessary) by something descent.

3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a
weapon
is necessary why are you going there? Strikes me the same as going to
certain parts of town atcertain times with a lot of $100 bills poking out
of
your pocket. To much of the world that's the face we present just by
being
on a 'yacht,' and no matter if we scrimped and saved for 20 years to own
that 26
foot long 30 year old sloop or that the single $100 bill is all we have.

4. If you take a weapon to another country there are five considerations
all
negative and none which are positive.

First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.

Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from
you
and secured until you leave.

Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again)
and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

Fourth If you didn't declare the weapon and it's found the best you
can
hope for is deportation and confiscation of property including your boat.
That's the normal penalty for smuggling and illegal arms possession.

Fifth if you didn't declare the weapon and use it plan, at best, on an
extended stay in one of their special hotels and reread Numbers One,
Three,
and Four again.

So my point is . ... if it's that dangerous why go there? Plenty of
places
in the world without trying to match your home made zip gun against real
weaponry and your probable inability to use same when your opponent has no
problem killing you.

On the other hand if you really feel the need to go . . .do so. But as
for
assistance. . . my number will be busy.


Michael
S/V Se Langt

(for the record 20 years infantry and 3 years police officer)

PS There is a sixth consideration, known to those few who have really had
to
use these tools for their intended purpose. Think about it.

careful, doug. you are confusing the term "automatic" with "fully automatic".
ain't hardly the same no how.

eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after
each
fired round.

That would be a semi-automatic weapon. The term automatic is generally
considered to mean fully-automatic.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

having spent some time carrying a fully automatic rifle (pull the trigger and
it keeps firing until you let up on the trigger) among colleagues also carrying
full automatic weapons, and having met no more than two civilians who owned
fully automatic weapons, I doubt your statement.

For one thing, anyone who has ever fired fully auto knows the damned things
climb after the first few rounds. most people -- even fully trained people --
who fire fully auto do no more than "spray the treeline". It wastes ammo and
scares only the rawest recruits. well aimed shots can be fired one at a time
fast enough to sound like (to the untrained ear) like machine gunfire.

anyone who tells one and all *he* will carry a fully automatic weapon to
protect himself has a short dick, emotionally.

Me, I use good sense to avoid getting my ass in jam where I feel the need for
any weapon. I suggest you do the same.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 2:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: UJUbd.70111$tU4.11303@okepread06

JAX, by your defination "automatic" weapons have never been banned, and for
the record neither has fully automatic weapons (machine guns).
Yes, there is a $250.00 yearly fee to own one and a lot of scrutiny...but
the fact remains there are more FULLY automatic weapons in civilian hands
than there are in both law enforcment and military combined. And they are
legal.
The gun people use "semi-automatic" to define guns that are self loaders,
but have a disconect sear so that the trigger must be released before the
next cartrige will fire. They use "automatic" to define a self loading gun
that automatically fires the next round until the trigger is released.

But this is off the subject, the question was if a flare gun is a weapon.

Eric

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically" after
each
fired round.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years, with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not
understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing
the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

Jax and I rarely agree.

PS There is a sixth consideration, known to those few who have really had to
use these tools for their intended purpose. Think about it.


yup. I agree, Michael. Most people, even those well trained prior to combat,
just fire away at the air hitting nothing until they are out of ammo.

Side note: In WWII, 5% of American pilots downed 50% of the enemy aircraft,
while just another 10% downed 40%. Among German fighter pilots, just 103 men
downed just three short of 14,000 aircraft. One German pilot -- who died of
old age -- downed 352 aircraft.

Be careful of just who you pull a gun on. Some people don't scare at all,
because they know they are quicker than you ever think you might be. Besides,
you are likely to be one of those who fire into the air.

A friend of mine of long ago had a Silver Star listed on his DD-214. I asked
him how he got it. He said charley jumped out of the brush and unloaded with a
(30-round) banana clip at close range at the group, all 30 rounds going wild.
He returned fired hitting charley with 16 of 18 rounds from his M-16. Friend
was 6' 6" tall and made an excellent target. charley was standard charley
size.

Yes they are.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
careful, doug. you are confusing the term "automatic" with "fully
automatic".
ain't hardly the same no how.

eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically"
after
each
fired round.

That would be a semi-automatic weapon. The term automatic is generally
considered to mean fully-automatic.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years,
with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine
gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not
understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the
people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended
without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing
the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free
the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

From: "Michael"
Date: 10/15/2004 5:51 PM Eastern


1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than the

?????? I would think you would aim it and pull the trigger.




3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a weapon
is necessary why are you going there?


There are many of us that like to cruise in foreign countries and enjoy. Parts
of every country have dangerous areas that protection is nice, that includes
the US. I have been in parts of Miami, New York and LA that were just as
dangerous as any of the 37 countries I have visited.


First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.


NOT TRUE
Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from you
and secured until you leave.

Very true in most countries, but not the flare gun. I always had st least two
of them setting in plain sight and NEVER had a problem with them
Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again) and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

True but if you life is in danger what are you going to worry about first?


This started out about a flare gun being used as a weapon and drifted off track
a little (as usual) The flare gun is not the ideal weapon but is a quick and
available means of protecting yourself in some cases. Common sense should
dictate when and how to use it. Since this is a cruising group I assumed we
were talking about off shore cruising????? I have spent over 14 yrs cruising
central and south America and would not be without one sitting were I could
grab it in a hurry if someone was boarding my boat without my permission. I did
have that happen one morning when at anchor in Panama and it turned out to be
undercover Drug agents from a fishing boat. (another weird story).

After I got out of the Marine Corps I spent 5 yrs as a police officer in the
Los Angels area of Calif. so I am familiar with some of our laws, none of which
prohibit you from having a flare gun. All countries are going to hold you
responsible for your use of it and anything else you use to defend yourself
including your hands so you have to use good judgment.

Well someone has to go to Indonesia. Have a safe trip. I'll send you a
card from Norway.

"RWKxxx" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael"
Date: 10/15/2004 5:51 PM Eastern


1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability
and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than
the

?????? I would think you would aim it and pull the trigger.




3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a
weapon
is necessary why are you going there?


There are many of us that like to cruise in foreign countries and enjoy.
Parts
of every country have dangerous areas that protection is nice, that
includes
the US. I have been in parts of Miami, New York and LA that were just as
dangerous as any of the 37 countries I have visited.


First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for
USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.


NOT TRUE
Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from
you
and secured until you leave.

Very true in most countries, but not the flare gun. I always had st least
two
of them setting in plain sight and NEVER had a problem with them
Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a
local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again)
and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

True but if you life is in danger what are you going to worry about first?


This started out about a flare gun being used as a weapon and drifted off
track
a little (as usual) The flare gun is not the ideal weapon but is a quick
and
available means of protecting yourself in some cases. Common sense should
dictate when and how to use it. Since this is a cruising group I assumed
we
were talking about off shore cruising????? I have spent over 14 yrs
cruising
central and south America and would not be without one sitting were I
could
grab it in a hurry if someone was boarding my boat without my permission.
I did
have that happen one morning when at anchor in Panama and it turned out to
be
undercover Drug agents from a fishing boat. (another weird story).

After I got out of the Marine Corps I spent 5 yrs as a police officer in
the
Los Angels area of Calif. so I am familiar with some of our laws, none of
which
prohibit you from having a flare gun. All countries are going to hold you
responsible for your use of it and anything else you use to defend
yourself
including your hands so you have to use good judgment.

only in your mind, doug.

which word in English didn't you understand?

"Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 10/15/2004 11:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Yes they are.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
careful, doug. you are confusing the term "automatic" with "fully
automatic".
ain't hardly the same no how.

eric, be careful with your use of terms. "automatic" rifles and pistols
are in
common usage by civilians, but the word automatic used in that context
means
the weapon chambers another round and cocks the gun "automatically"
after
each
fired round.

That would be a semi-automatic weapon. The term automatic is generally
considered to mean fully-automatic.

However "fully automatic" (which keep firing as long as the trigger is
pulled,
and means "machine guns" to most people) are not much represented in the
civilian population (there is a $250 yearly fee involved, and a lot of
scrutiny
by law enforcement at all levels). machine guns are far and away more
common
in the military.

many of the "assault weapons" forbidden under the old law were legally
sold to
civilians once the magazines and flash suppressors were removed. same
firing
power but you don't look as cool to your buddies and you can't fire but
maybe
six (?) rounds before reloading (as opposed to 18 to 30 with a magazine
fed
weapon) and reloading is slower. big deal.

"Eric Currier"
Date: 10/15/2004 1:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: EyJbd.61530$tU4.19280@okepread06

Automatic weapons are NOT illegal, and have not been for many years,
with
proper paperwork and fees not only can a law abiding citizen own an
automatic weapon, but the fact of the matter is there are more automatic
weapons in private hands than there are in both law enforcment and
military
hands.
The other fact of the matter is the "assualt weapon" ban was a useless
piece
of legislation and anyone who believes it's demise will cause machine
gun
toting criminals to overrun our streets is someone who does not
understand
guns, and gets all thier information from the liberal media.

As for the question on the flare pistol, why post a question here? write
to
the company that makes the flare pistol and get the truth from the
people
who know exactllay what laws apply and how they apply...it's thier
livelyhood.

Eric

"Keith" wrote in message
...
Automatic weapons have been illegal for years, and still are for the
general
public. The term "assualt weapon" is poorly defined, and was just made
up
to
ban a few rifles that "looked bad". GWB didn't do anything... the bill
banning those "assualt weapons" hit it's sunset date, and ended
without
congress trying to re-enact it. At least they had some sense.

Your misconceptions are just what the anti-gun lobby wants. Sorry you
fell
for it.

--


Keith
__
A 'good' return to your slip is one from which you can walk away. A
'great'
return is one after which they can use the boat again.

"Lauri Tarkkonen" wrote in message

Of course a flare pistol is not a very efficient weapon if killing
the
other person is the only option. I understand why GWB has to free
the
sales of automatic assault rifles. You really seems to need them.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

recks, as a former police officier you are certain to be aware that carrying a
pistol on your boat down the East River from LIS to NY harbor is a felony?
possesion of a pistol in NYC without a permit (you can't get one) is a felony.
Hell, carrying a knife with a blade over six or eight (or something close) is a
felony in NYC.

As a resident of NYC, I suggest if you feel the need to carry illegal weapons
here for your "protection" that you go instead to Newark.

From: (RWKxxx)
Date: 10/16/2004 6:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

From: "Michael"
Date: 10/15/2004 5:51 PM Eastern


1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than the

?????? I would think you would aim it and pull the trigger.




3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a weapon
is necessary why are you going there?


There are many of us that like to cruise in foreign countries and enjoy.
Parts
of every country have dangerous areas that protection is nice, that includes
the US. I have been in parts of Miami, New York and LA that were just as
dangerous as any of the 37 countries I have visited.


First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.


NOT TRUE
Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from you
and secured until you leave.

Very true in most countries, but not the flare gun. I always had st least two
of them setting in plain sight and NEVER had a problem with them
Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again) and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

True but if you life is in danger what are you going to worry about first?


This started out about a flare gun being used as a weapon and drifted off
track
a little (as usual) The flare gun is not the ideal weapon but is a quick and
available means of protecting yourself in some cases. Common sense should
dictate when and how to use it. Since this is a cruising group I assumed we
were talking about off shore cruising????? I have spent over 14 yrs cruising
central and south America and would not be without one sitting were I could
grab it in a hurry if someone was boarding my boat without my permission. I
did
have that happen one morning when at anchor in Panama and it turned out to be
undercover Drug agents from a fishing boat. (another weird story).

After I got out of the Marine Corps I spent 5 yrs as a police officer in the
Los Angels area of Calif. so I am familiar with some of our laws, none of
which
prohibit you from having a flare gun. All countries are going to hold you
responsible for your use of it and anything else you use to defend yourself
including your hands so you have to use good judgment.

yeah.

Well someone has to go to Indonesia. Have a safe trip. I'll send you a
card from Norway.

"RWKxxx" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael"
Date: 10/15/2004 5:51 PM Eastern


1. Yes you can use the flare pistol if you have the technical ability
and
knowhow. I'm not passing it on. Better you blow off your fingers than
the

?????? I would think you would aim it and pull the trigger.




3. Third if you are going to a place on the planet where you think a
weapon
is necessary why are you going there?


There are many of us that like to cruise in foreign countries and enjoy.
Parts
of every country have dangerous areas that protection is nice, that
includes
the US. I have been in parts of Miami, New York and LA that were just as
dangerous as any of the 37 countries I have visited.


First, realize fully when you get three miles off shore (this for
USA
citizens) you left ALL constitutional protections behind.


NOT TRUE
Second, when you arrive in a foreign country you must register the
weapon regardless of how disguised it may be and often it is taken from
you
and secured until you leave.

Very true in most countries, but not the flare gun. I always had st least
two
of them setting in plain sight and NEVER had a problem with them
Third, if you use the declared weapon on a human being, or even a
local
animal you come under their laws (reread the first consideration again)
and
their courts and their police and their jails or prisons.

True but if you life is in danger what are you going to worry about first?


This started out about a flare gun being used as a weapon and drifted off
track
a little (as usual) The flare gun is not the ideal weapon but is a quick
and
available means of protecting yourself in some cases. Common sense should
dictate when and how to use it. Since this is a cruising group I assumed
we
were talking about off shore cruising????? I have spent over 14 yrs
cruising
central and south America and would not be without one sitting were I
could
grab it in a hurry if someone was boarding my boat without my permission.
I did
have that happen one morning when at anchor in Panama and it turned out to
be
undercover Drug agents from a fishing boat. (another weird story).

After I got out of the Marine Corps I spent 5 yrs as a police officer in
the
Los Angels area of Calif. so I am familiar with some of our laws, none of
which
prohibit you from having a flare gun. All countries are going to hold you
responsible for your use of it and anything else you use to defend
yourself
including your hands so you have to use good judgment.

You can buy flair shells that are loaded with a powerful pepper spray
and you can have flair shells loaded with lead if you know someone
privately that can do it right, I have both and my guns are the heavy
duty metal type..My safety out there is my responsibility, nobody is
going to protect me but me, there is no 911..For those of you that
refuse to arm yourselfs please do not advertise it on the web, that is
just stupid. Goto www.firequest.com ,,catalog/flair...

rhys wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:33:10 GMT, "Garuda" wrote:

Assuming dead men tell tales.

Isn't that the basis of all those forensics-based cop shows on TV
lately? Dead men are responsible for hundreds of scripts a year, it
seems. Even the "floaters".

R.

Craig wrote:

You can buy flair shells that are loaded with a powerful pepper spray
and you can have flair shells loaded with lead if you know someone
privately that can do it right, I have both and my guns are the heavy
duty metal type..My safety out there is my responsibility, nobody is
going to protect me but me, there is no 911..For those of you that
refuse to arm yourselfs please do not advertise it on the web, that is
just stupid. Goto www.firequest.com ,,catalog/flair...

Although you probably are a typical & dangerous gunnut, the product might
be usefull.
The correct link is: http://www.firequest.com/catalog/flares.html

Personally I'd look for something that protects me while I am sleeping
etc. Not something I have to have within reach, as that can only increase
the uneasiness. You cannot feel safe if you have to have a weapon nearby
all the time, and that defeats the whole purpose of sailing.
Something like a high voltage wire around the outside of the boat, that
would produce a non-lethal shock when touched and turns on some lights &
sounds. You'd have to make sure you don't get false alarms though, an
anchorage with every five minutes a car-alarm going off would not be very
enjoyable. And frying the local boys that want to sell you some bread will
also be frowned upon, i'd guess.

--
vriendelijke groeten/kind regards,

Jelle

begin msblaster.pif

"Jelle" wrote in message
...
Craig wrote:

Although you probably are a typical & dangerous gunnut, the product might
be usefull.

You'll have to further differentiate between typical and dangerous and
gunnut (gunnut: can't find that word in the dictionary). Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks. Matter of fact they are generally the most
conscientious and safest owners of guns.

The correct link is: http://www.firequest.com/catalog/flares.html

Thanks! I was having trouble tracking it down. Being so anti-weapon
it is interesting that you knew it and are willing to forward to along.
Seems to me that you would make every effort to supress the proliferation
of such things.

Personally I'd look for something that protects me while I am sleeping
etc. Not something I have to have within reach, as that can only increase
the uneasiness.

Are there other inanimate objects you are scared of?

You cannot feel safe if you have to have a weapon nearby
all the time,

I feel very safe with a weapon at close reach. Are you afraid that the
weapon is going to jump up and attack you?

and that defeats the whole purpose of sailing.

That's silly!

Doug
s/v Callista

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:23:29 GMT, "Steve Schwartz"
wrote:

drunk teenagers looking for some fun
harassing a boater could be disuaded from continuing their insults without
ever having to fire a shot oops I mean flare at them.

That's a 911 call in my book.

(Are there pirates on Lake Ontario?)

Only at the marinas and fuel docks.

BOO!!

you chicken**** *******.

now, go cry your eyes out.

(Craig)
Date: 10/17/2004 9:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

You can buy flair shells that are loaded with a powerful pepper spray
and you can have flair shells loaded with lead if you know someone
privately that can do it right, I have both and my guns are the heavy
duty metal type..My safety out there is my responsibility, nobody is
going to protect me but me, there is no 911..For those of you that
refuse to arm yourselfs please do not advertise it on the web, that is
just stupid. Goto www.firequest.com ,,catalog/flair...

rhys wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:33:10 GMT, "Garuda" wrote:

Assuming dead men tell tales.

Isn't that the basis of all those forensics-based cop shows on TV
lately? Dead men are responsible for hundreds of scripts a year, it
seems. Even the "floaters".

R.

Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks.

no, they are not at all normal. They are the short sticks and those who
believe themselves to be short sticks.

you know, the guys who can't get laid but even by the fat chicks.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:25:42 +0200,
Jelle wrote:
Craig wrote:

You can buy flair shells that are loaded with a powerful pepper spray
and you can have flair shells loaded with lead if you know someone
privately that can do it right, I have both and my guns are the heavy
duty metal type..My safety out there is my responsibility, nobody is
going to protect me but me, there is no 911..For those of you that
refuse to arm yourselfs please do not advertise it on the web, that is
just stupid. Goto www.firequest.com ,,catalog/flair...

Although you probably are a typical & dangerous gunnut, the product might
be usefull.
The correct link is: http://www.firequest.com/catalog/flares.html

Personally I'd look for something that protects me while I am sleeping
etc. Not something I have to have within reach, as that can only increase
the uneasiness. You cannot feel safe if you have to have a weapon nearby
all the time, and that defeats the whole purpose of sailing.
Something like a high voltage wire around the outside of the boat, that
would produce a non-lethal shock when touched and turns on some lights &
sounds. You'd have to make sure you don't get false alarms though, an
anchorage with every five minutes a car-alarm going off would not be very
enjoyable. And frying the local boys that want to sell you some bread will
also be frowned upon, i'd guess.


I don't feel comfortable unless there's a fire extinguisher close to
hand, does that defeat the point of sailing?

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
"`If there's anything more important than my ego around, I
want it caught and shot now.'"
-- Zaphod

Jesus Jax, Your going farking balmy in your old age. You were bad
before but now your right off the bleedin' wall, mate. You disappeared
for a while and life was good around here at rbc but now your back and
like Bobsprit, your
like killer bees, fire ants, wasps and skeeters....... a major
irritation. Are you really John Ashby from Manhattan?
I would love to get together for a coffee. Keep on ranting and the big
guys in the white jackets are taking you to
Bellevue in short order. Were you kicked as a child perhaps? Now try
to be nice.........

JAXAshby wrote:

Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks.



no, they are not at all normal. They are the short sticks and those who
believe themselves to be short sticks.

you know, the guys who can't get laid but even by the fat chicks.

Doug Dotson wrote:


"Jelle" wrote in message
...
Craig wrote:

Although you probably are a typical & dangerous gunnut, the product
might
be usefull.

You'll have to further differentiate between typical and dangerous and
gunnut (gunnut: can't find that word in the dictionary). Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks. Matter of fact they are generally the most
conscientious and safest owners of guns.

Maybe. But the gunnut that does not own any guns is miles safer, to himself
and his surroundings.
generalizing Having lots of gunnuts in a culture is indicative of a
culture where is is normal to solve conflicts by the use of guns. And that
is very dangerous don't you think? /generalizing

The correct link is: http://www.firequest.com/catalog/flares.html

Thanks! I was having trouble tracking it down.
It was a tough and hard job to click that faulty link yes.
Being so anti-weapon
How would you know?
it is interesting that you knew it and are willing to forward to along.

I may not agree to his or your opinions, but he has every right to speak
about them. I saw his own inability to place the correct link as and
obstruction to this right of free speech so I solved that for him.

Besides, if it saves one live because some gunnut chose to load this shell
instead one paked with lead, then that is a positive thing.

Seems to me that you would make every effort to supress the proliferation
of such things.

In my country it is already prohibited. The gun is, and the shells are. The
number of peole killed per capita is orders of magnitude lower than the
USA's. Indeed only criminals have guns, and they use them to kill other
criminals. There are gunnuts here too, but most can only get horny from
pictures of guns as they (luckily) don't have the real thing.

Personally I'd look for something that protects me while I am sleeping
etc. Not something I have to have within reach, as that can only increase
the uneasiness.

Are there other inanimate objects you are scared of?

yes: you.

You cannot feel safe if you have to have a weapon nearby
all the time,

I feel very safe with a weapon at close reach. Are you afraid that the
weapon is going to jump up and attack you?

If you feel safer in an area where you don't need that gun at close hand,
you were not feeling safe before. JAX usually is full of gas, but he summed
it up quite nicely.

and that defeats the whole purpose of sailing.

That's silly!

I pity you for your constant distrust and fear. But you don't have to defend
you position, nor will i defend mine on this subject. It is irrelevant in
this ng, and irrelevant because neither of us will convince eachother nor
anybody else. it is just a moot discussion.

I found i quite interesting to see that you completely disregarded the
non-offensive solution I proposed. But you cannot hold that one in your
hand so you probably are not interested in it ;)
--
vriendelijke groeten/kind regards,

Jelle

sorry, jimmy, I stand by my statement re gun nuts.

From: Jim
Date: 10/18/2004 12:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:


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Jesus Jax, Your going farking balmy in your old age. You were bad
before but now your right off the bleedin' wall, mate. You disappeared
for a while and life was good around here at rbc but now your back and
like Bobsprit, your
like killer bees, fire ants, wasps and skeeters....... a major
irritation. Are you really John Ashby from Manhattan?
I would love to get together for a coffee. Keep on ranting and the big
guys in the white jackets are taking you to
Bellevue in short order. Were you kicked as a child perhaps? Now try
to be nice.........

JAXAshby wrote:

Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks.



no, they are not at all normal. They are the short sticks and those who
believe themselves to be short sticks.

you know, the guys who can't get laid but even by the fat chicks.






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head title/title/headJesus Jax, Your going farking balmy in your
old age. You were bad beforebut now your right off the bleedin' wall, mate.
You disappeared for a whileand life was good around here at rbc but now your
back and like Bobsprit,your
like killer bees, fire ants, wasps and skeeters....... a major irritation.
Are you really John Ashby from Manhattan?
I would love to get together for a coffee. Keep on ranting and the big
guysin the white jackets are taking you to
Bellevue in short order. Were you kicked as a child perhaps? Now try tobe
nice.........

JAXAshby wrote:
blockquote type="cite"
" blockquote
type="cite" Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks.
/blockquote !----
no, they are not at all normal. They are the short sticks and those who
believe themselves to be short sticks.

you know, the guys who can't get laid but even by the fat chicks.


/blockquote

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From: Jim
Date: 10/18/2004 12:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:


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Jesus Jax, Your going farking balmy in your old age. You were bad
before but now your right off the bleedin' wall, mate. You disappeared
for a while and life was good around here at rbc but now your back and
like Bobsprit, your
like killer bees, fire ants, wasps and skeeters....... a major
irritation. Are you really John Ashby from Manhattan?
I would love to get together for a coffee. Keep on ranting and the big
guys in the white jackets are taking you to
Bellevue in short order. Were you kicked as a child perhaps? Now try
to be nice.........

JAXAshby wrote:

Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks.



no, they are not at all normal. They are the short sticks and those who
believe themselves to be short sticks.

you know, the guys who can't get laid but even by the fat chicks.






--------------070105060809020300010303
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

head title/title/headJesus Jax, Your going farking balmy in your
old age. You were bad beforebut now your right off the bleedin' wall, mate.
You disappeared for a whileand life was good around here at rbc but now your
back and like Bobsprit,your
like killer bees, fire ants, wasps and skeeters....... a major irritation.
Are you really John Ashby from Manhattan?
I would love to get together for a coffee. Keep on ranting and the big
guysin the white jackets are taking you to
Bellevue in short order. Were you kicked as a child perhaps? Now try tobe
nice.........

JAXAshby wrote:
blockquote type="cite"
" blockquote
type="cite" Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks.
/blockquote !----
no, they are not at all normal. They are the short sticks and those who
believe themselves to be short sticks.

you know, the guys who can't get laid but even by the fat chicks.


/blockquote

--------------070105060809020300010303--

"Jelle" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:


"Jelle" wrote in message
...
Craig wrote:

Although you probably are a typical & dangerous gunnut, the product
might
be usefull.

You'll have to further differentiate between typical and dangerous and
gunnut (gunnut: can't find that word in the dictionary). Most gunnuts
(your term) are normal folks. Matter of fact they are generally the most
conscientious and safest owners of guns.

Maybe. But the gunnut that does not own any guns is miles safer, to
himself
and his surroundings.
generalizing Having lots of gunnuts in a culture is indicative of a
culture where is is normal to solve conflicts by the use of guns. And that
is very dangerous don't you think? /generalizing

No. As a very famous person once said: An armed society is a polite society.
Interestingly enough, the Founding Fathers wished all citizens to be armed.
Herse, the Second Amendment.

The correct link is: http://www.firequest.com/catalog/flares.html

Thanks! I was having trouble tracking it down.
It was a tough and hard job to click that faulty link yes.
Being so anti-weapon
How would you know?
it is interesting that you knew it and are willing to forward to along.

I may not agree to his or your opinions, but he has every right to speak
about them. I saw his own inability to place the correct link as and
obstruction to this right of free speech so I solved that for him.

Besides, if it saves one live because some gunnut chose to load this shell
instead one paked with lead, then that is a positive thing.

Seems to me that you would make every effort to supress the proliferation
of such things.

In my country it is already prohibited. The gun is, and the shells are.
The
number of peole killed per capita is orders of magnitude lower than the
USA's. Indeed only criminals have guns, and they use them to kill other
criminals. There are gunnuts here too, but most can only get horny from
pictures of guns as they (luckily) don't have the real thing.

Personally I'd look for something that protects me while I am sleeping
etc. Not something I have to have within reach, as that can only
increase
the uneasiness.

Are there other inanimate objects you are scared of?

yes: you.

You cannot feel safe if you have to have a weapon nearby
all the time,

I feel very safe with a weapon at close reach. Are you afraid that the
weapon is going to jump up and attack you?

If you feel safer in an area where you don't need that gun at close hand,
you were not feeling safe before. JAX usually is full of gas, but he
summed
it up quite nicely.

and that defeats the whole purpose of sailing.

That's silly!

I pity you for your constant distrust and fear. But you don't have to
defend
you position, nor will i defend mine on this subject. It is irrelevant in
this ng, and irrelevant because neither of us will convince eachother nor
anybody else. it is just a moot discussion.

Correct.

I found i quite interesting to see that you completely disregarded the
non-offensive solution I proposed. But you cannot hold that one in your
hand so you probably are not interested in it ;)
--
vriendelijke groeten/kind regards,

Jelle

As a very famous person once said: An armed society is a polite society.

the most polite society in America ever was the society in the Wild West of the
1880's, when even young women packed a six gun and often a rifle as well. At
lot of people died, but they were most usually polite to each other right up
until the firing started.

Interestingly enough, the Founding Fathers wished all citizens to be armed.
Herse, the Second Amendment.


That was not because the Founding Fathers were looking to build a "polite"
society, but rather the Founding Fathers felt that an armed citizenry made it
difficult for a dictatorship to evolve.

True then and is still true today.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Interestingly enough, the Founding Fathers wished all citizens to be
armed.
Herse, the Second Amendment.


That was not because the Founding Fathers were looking to build a "polite"
society, but rather the Founding Fathers felt that an armed citizenry made
it
difficult for a dictatorship to evolve.

Well, there are liberal carry laws in place in Arizona, Virginia, and
several
other states. I don;t hear of widespread killings there. My ex carries all
the time and has yet to kill anyone or even draw her weapon. The
deterrent value is undesputed in those states that allow one to carry
or at least have a weapon in their home.

Doug

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
As a very famous person once said: An armed society is a polite society.

the most polite society in America ever was the society in the Wild West
of the
1880's, when even young women packed a six gun and often a rifle as well.
At
lot of people died, but they were most usually polite to each other right
up
until the firing started.

you might take a look at Texas. Every place in Texas that serves even beer --
such as pizza places -- has a large sign in plain view reminding one and all
that it is a felony to be in possesion of a fire arm in the place.

Well, there are liberal carry laws in place in Arizona, Virginia, and
several
other states. I don;t hear of widespread killings there. My ex carries all
the time and has yet to kill anyone or even draw her weapon. The
deterrent value is undesputed in those states that allow one to carry
or at least have a weapon in their home.

Doug

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
As a very famous person once said: An armed society is a polite society.

the most polite society in America ever was the society in the Wild West
of the
1880's, when even young women packed a six gun and often a rifle as well.
At
lot of people died, but they were most usually polite to each other right
up
until the firing started.

It is quite common for bars and such to prohibit firearms. I/ve seen
some that even provide a gun-check service.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you might take a look at Texas. Every place in Texas that serves even
beer --
such as pizza places -- has a large sign in plain view reminding one and
all
that it is a felony to be in possesion of a fire arm in the place.

Well, there are liberal carry laws in place in Arizona, Virginia, and
several
other states. I don;t hear of widespread killings there. My ex carries all
the time and has yet to kill anyone or even draw her weapon. The
deterrent value is undesputed in those states that allow one to carry
or at least have a weapon in their home.

Doug

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
As a very famous person once said: An armed society is a polite
society.

the most polite society in America ever was the society in the Wild West
of the
1880's, when even young women packed a six gun and often a rifle as
well.
At
lot of people died, but they were most usually polite to each other
right
up
until the firing started.