genie, knock it off. you google for hours on end just hoping against hope you
can prove me wrong (I have no such need re, and indeed you seem to be ALways
wrong), and the best you can come with is something written somewhere by some
clown spewing idiocy and/or something so totally out of context you don't
understand they are talking about something totally different than you are.

genie, you are without understanding of most everything. recall how you
bragged about taking a couple decades to learn enough about aircraft engines to
get an A&E attained by many a 18 year old boy?

Gene Kearns
Date: 9/23/2004 8:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 22 Sep 2004 02:53:46 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

don't tell it to me, tell to those with PhD's in chemistry.

Wrong.

Wrong, Again.

Ok, stoopid... this is what they say....

Pouring grain alcohol into water results in a single liquid phase. No
meniscus forms between the alcohol and the water, and the two liquids
are considered "miscible". Nearly any pair of liquids are miscible if
only a trace amount of one of the liquids is present......

=====References=======

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/se...scible-immisci
ble.shtml
http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/st...metabolism.htm
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem00847.htm
http://chemlearn.chem.indiana.edu/demos/SolofAlc.htm
http://www.campusprogram.com/referen...l/alcohol.html
but I belabor the obvious......

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

junnie, I missed the word "carburetor" as justification for ethanol in gasoline
in you cite. would you mind pointing it out to me?


Gene Kearns"
Date: 9/30/2004 11:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 28 Sep 2004 17:35:45 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:


so, matt, genius that you are, are you STILL claiming gasoline is oxygenated
to
reduce CO emissions upon cold engine startup for cars with carbs?

In other words, matt, you are claiming a car with a Holly 5200 glued onto
the
intake manifold does not meet EPA standards and the EPA forced the petro
companies to change the fuel to "make it all better?"


I don't think he said that. The EPA did:

Clean Fuel Provisions of the Clean Air Act of l990

• Oxygenated Fuels
The oxygenated fuels provision affects 31 metropolitan areas that have
high levels of carbon monoxide pollution (see chart).Since November
1992, gasoline sold in the winter in these areas must contain a
minimum of 2.7 percent oxygen. The oxygen helps vehicles burn fuel
more completely. this program has reduced vehicle carbon monoxide
emissions by 15 to 20 percent.

====Reference====
From the EPA website:
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/13-fuels.pdf

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...
here you, yo-yo. http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/o1/octanenu.asp

an explaination even you can understand as to what the "octane rating" of
octane is.


Here are some lines from that link that are pertinent:

"The engine is next operated on a fuel blended from a form of
isooctane that is very resistant to knocking and a form of heptane
that knocks very easily. When a blend is found that duplicates the
knocking intensity of the sample under test, the percentage of
isooctane by volume in the blended sample is taken as the octane
number of the fuel."

It's a classic neophyte blunder, confusing octane (spec. normal
octane) for isooctane. It seems your understanding of gasoline engines
and gasoline is at best cursory or dated. I practically begged you,
twice, to look up octane ratings for normal octane and iso-octane. Had
you done that, you'd have realized that the octane rating of normal
octane is less than zero.

You'll note that I have been very careful to distinguish between
normal octane and iso-octane. You apparently have yet to understand
the distinction and its significance. Here's another link that may
help you in that quest:

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...#octane_number

There are plenty of other pages on the web which contain great
information on the topic. See if you can locate Bruce Hamilton's most
recent Gasoline FAQ. Indeed if you just poke around the rest of the
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...etin/motorgas/
site a bit you could learn other tidbits about other gasoline and
engines.

I have seen you deride others for researching topics on Google or for
using cut-and-paste, as if your hastily jotted recollections were more
authoritative. Do you not see the hypocrisy when you cut-and-paste a
definition from a dictionary or cite a link from an online
encyclopedia that you have apparently not digested? I have been
embarassed on your behalf that anyone could actually provide superior
information, having known nothing of the subject at the outset, by
applying techniques of research that you could easily do yourself.

Even the most intelligent do not remember everything. Legend has it
that Einstein did not remember his own phone number, but he did know
where to look it up. Great minds do very well by retaining a scaffold
of information and by referring to the literature to fill in the
details when they are addressing a problem. When they speak, it is
usually after they have already brought themselves up to speed. When
they are disputed, they doublecheck and provide authoritative
references that actually support their position, or they confess their
simple misunderstanding and move on. They recuse themselves from
strongly opining on subjects in which they are not expert, and they
know what those subjects are.

And they ask questions. When you asked "wtf???" it was a good start.

%mod%


the octane rating of normal octane, ... is, less than zero.


wtf???

That is correct. Less than zero. Less than the rating assigned to
normal heptane.

I gave you a big hint when I said to look up octane numbers for
"normal octane", "normal heptane" and "iso-octane" (a.k.a.
2,2,4-trimethyl pentane).

Here's another hint (in form of questions): which is better as diesel
fuel, octane or cetane? Which has higher octane number, heptane or
propane? Can we make any generalizations about long vs. short chain
alkanes and their branched isomers?

%mod%

junnie, those "old wives' tales" come directly from the Petroleum Institute of
America Journal of Apr/May 1921, which I have read in the original.

Have you?

I read it back in 1981, so pardon if I misspelling a word or wo.

when did you read the Journal, junnie? Did you read it in the original or in a
digest?

"Gene Kearns"
Date: 10/5/2004 12:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 01 Oct 2004 01:45:06 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

You are focusing only on high octane rated "hot rod" fuel, never
mentioned tetra-ethyl lead

the discussion was regarding alcohol.

tetra-ethyl lead came about from reaseach done by General Motors in 1920 on
ways to improve the quality of gasoline
Wrong.

("normal" octane of the times were
about 65, though 100 octane gasoline was produced -- at huge expense -- for
WW1
aircraft engines).
Wrong

Several compounds were found to be useful increasing
"octane rating" of gasoline without super-expense refining. The very best
of
those compounds was tetra-ethyl lead.
Wrong. It was merely the one that was coercively adopted to turn the
maximum profit.

The second best -- by some distance --
was a chemical still commonly used by farmers to reduce fungus growth on
their
crops [sorry I don't recall the name].
Wrong.

the GM vice-president in charge of the
reasearch project left GM at project's end to form The Ethyl Corporation
(apparently with GM's blessing). This was all reported in The Petroleum
Institute of America Journal [Apr/May ? 1921?], an original copy of which I
read in 1981. Find a copy and read it if you wish.
Wrong. Charles Kettering was Vice President of General Motors Research
Corporation. He was President of The Ethyl Corporation. Around 1923,
GM (virtually controlled by) DuPont with Standard Oil (now Exxon)
created The Ethyl Corporation.

Rarely has there been a subject more rife with Old Wives' Tales,
Corporate Greed, and wholesale disregard for the consumer and their
health.....


====References====
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=901
http://www.radford.edu/%7Ewkovarik/p...lconflict.html
http://www.chemcases.com/tel/
http://www.radford.edu/~wkovarik/papers/fuel.html