WRONG! No matter how much alcohol you add to gasoline, once it is mixed, any
water in the alcohol will separate almost immediately. Water does nothing to
increase the octane of any fossil fuel. When water injection was used on
automobiles it was used to slow the burn time of cheap low octane gasoline. By
adding water you could keep your timing advanced to specs without the clatter
of a pinging engine from detonation on high compression engines. One primary
reason alcohol is added to fuel is its ability to retain more oxygen so when
added to gasoline you actually end up with a more efficent burn. Its an EPA
thing. Alcohol actually has a lower octane rating but because of its added
oxygenation properties, its benficial when added to gasoline.

From: Rich Hampel
Date: 9/21/04 11:26 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Nope 10% ethanol mixed with gasoline will result in the water component
forming into an emulsified form which doesnt separate readily.

Actually the additional water content helps increase the "octane"
number, and also helps to clean the piston ring grooves, blows the
carbon out of the combustion chamber, etc.
Some engines (back in 'muscle car days') used water injection to boost
power output while helping to cool the combustion chambers.

WRONG! No matter how much alcohol you add to gasoline, once it is mixed, any
water in the alcohol will separate almost immediately

where did you learn this? please be specific, as millions of drivers with
experience in cold winter states disagree with you.

ospam (DDeanFountain) wrote in message ...
One primary
reason alcohol is added to fuel is its ability to retain more oxygen so when
added to gasoline you actually end up with a more efficent burn. Its an EPA
thing.

Reduction of CO emissions during warm-up for carbureted engines.

Alcohol actually has a lower octane rating but because of its added
oxygenation properties, its benficial when added to gasoline.

Depends on the alcohol, but the most common added to gasoline are
ethanol and methanol, each with octane numbers of 100 or so. They
boost the octane.

%mod%

mod knock it off. even 25% alcohol to gas hardly raises the octane
---------------- rating ------------------ at all. you have been reading
1940's Popular Mechanix mags again. tsk tsk

Depends on the alcohol, but the most common added to gasoline are
ethanol and methanol, each with octane numbers of 100 or so. They
boost the octane.

Thanks for the correction, I did indeed leave the word "rating" off of
the end of that sentence (although "octane" is a common enough
abbreviation for "octane rating"). I also should have not implied that
methanol was commonly added to the gasoline that most people buy at
the gas pump, ethanol being preferred because of lower toxicity and
corrosivity.

While ethanol and methanol may not be as effective as other compounds,
the "blending number" of ethanol is 118, meaning when blended with
gasoline it boosts octane rating more than suggested by its rating in
pure form of 100 (R+M)/2. 10% ethanol can boost the octane rating by
3. Alcohols are in fact added to many common gasolines to boost octane
rating.

%mod%

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...
mod knock it off. even 25% alcohol to gas hardly raises the octane
---------------- rating ------------------ at all. you have been reading
1940's Popular Mechanix mags again. tsk tsk

Depends on the alcohol, but the most common added to gasoline are
ethanol and methanol, each with octane numbers of 100 or so. They
boost the octane.

Alcohols are in fact added to many common gasolines to boost octane
rating.

no since 1930's hot rod engine. from then on until the mid 50's, benzene was
used by hot rodders. late 40's to early 60's AV/GAS was used for those engines
needing unusually high octane rated fuel. Mid 60's on to mid 70's the gas
companies sold the hot rodder's fuel. By the mid 70's, insurance company rates
killed the need for high octane rated fuel.

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...
Alcohols are in fact added to many common gasolines to boost octane
rating.

no since 1930's hot rod engine. from then on until the mid 50's, benzene was
used by hot rodders. late 40's to early 60's AV/GAS was used for those engines
needing unusually high octane rated fuel. Mid 60's on to mid 70's the gas
companies sold the hot rodder's fuel. By the mid 70's, insurance company rates
killed the need for high octane rated fuel.

You are focusing only on high octane rated "hot rod" fuel, never
mentioned tetra-ethyl lead and missed even the distinction between
regular and premium gasoline.

Ethanol has tax incentives that can make it advantageous as an octane
booster even when oxygenation is not the primary goal.

%mod%

You are focusing only on high octane rated "hot rod" fuel, never
mentioned tetra-ethyl lead

the discussion was regarding alcohol.

tetra-ethyl lead came about from reaseach done by General Motors in 1920 on
ways to improve the quality of gasoline ("normal" octane of the times were
about 65, though 100 octane gasoline was produced -- at huge expense -- for WW1
aircraft engines). Several compounds were found to be useful increasing
"octane rating" of gasoline without super-expense refining. The very best of
those compounds was tetra-ethyl lead. The second best -- by some distance --
was a chemical still commonly used by farmers to reduce fungus growth on their
crops [sorry I don't recall the name]. the GM vice-president in charge of the
reasearch project left GM at project's end to form The Ethyl Corporation
(apparently with GM's blessing). This was all reported in The Petroleum
Institute of America Journal [Apr/May ? 1921?], an original copy of which I
read in 1981. Find a copy and read it if you wish.

Ethanol has tax incentives that can make it advantageous as an octane
booster even when oxygenation is not the primary goal.

a commonly used farm fungicide -- available in 1981 for $70 for a 55-gallon
drum, plus shipping, quantity one -- works far better on an ounce by ounce
basis. I seem recall GM's research indicated that 1 ounce of that fungicide
increased the octane rating of a gallon of gasoline by about 5 points.

Well mod,
I give up.
This is no more fun than trying to teach a pig to sing....
Matt

modervador wrote:

Thanks for the correction, I did indeed leave the word "rating" off of
the end of that sentence (although "octane" is a common enough
abbreviation for "octane rating"). I also should have not implied that
methanol was commonly added to the gasoline that most people buy at
the gas pump, ethanol being preferred because of lower toxicity and
corrosivity.

While ethanol and methanol may not be as effective as other compounds,
the "blending number" of ethanol is 118, meaning when blended with
gasoline it boosts octane rating more than suggested by its rating in
pure form of 100 (R+M)/2. 10% ethanol can boost the octane rating by
3. Alcohols are in fact added to many common gasolines to boost octane
rating.

%mod%

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...

mod knock it off. even 25% alcohol to gas hardly raises the octane
---------------- rating ------------------ at all. you have been reading
1940's Popular Mechanix mags again. tsk tsk


Depends on the alcohol, but the most common added to gasoline are
ethanol and methanol, each with octane numbers of 100 or so. They
boost the octane.