I made great progress in the alignment saga today. Lots more contortions, but the exertion part was alleviated by the borrowing of a couple of very serious wrenches, allowing me better leverage. Once I had stuff moving, I could use my smaller wrenches to good effect, having the ability to move them further because they were lots shorter.

I got all of the sliding stuff loose today, something I'd
been pretty concerned about. However, as most things I do will defer to brute force, and I'm a brute, sometimes, I got things started.

At the moment we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face of the coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the transmission.

As everything is entirely loose at the moment, I have little doubt that the hard part is yet come, as every loose part has to be retightened, and every time I do that, the alignment will change, slightly. However, I'll keep at it (I'm known for patience), and as long as I've got it all loose, won't settle for better than the .004 it was before (albeit, WAAAY off straight astern).

WooHoo!

L8R, y'all

Skip

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
I made great progress in the alignment saga today. Lots more contortions, but
the exertion part was alleviated by the borrowing of a couple of very serious
wrenches, allowing me better leverage. Once I had stuff moving, I could use my
smaller wrenches to good effect, having the ability to move them further
because they were lots shorter.

I got all of the sliding stuff loose today, something I'd
been pretty concerned about. However, as most things I do will defer to brute
force, and I'm a brute, sometimes, I got things started.

At the moment we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face of the
coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the transmission.

As everything is entirely loose at the moment, I have little doubt that the
hard part is yet come, as every loose part has to be retightened, and every
time I do that, the alignment will change, slightly. However, I'll keep at it
(I'm known for patience), and as long as I've got it all loose, won't settle
for better than the .004 it was before (albeit, WAAAY off straight astern).

WooHoo!


================[reply]=======================


Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed to
failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in the
log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with the
transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both top
to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller shaft is
centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as the two
flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get them perfect
is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you rotate them with
perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral) by hand both gauges
must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
news:504a191a$0$62077

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed
to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in
the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with
the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both
top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller
shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as
the two flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get
them perfect is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you
rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral)
by hand both gauges must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh. Reading deficit, eh?

We got the shaft centered. That took care of the alignment with the
cutlass. The shaft turns readily, by hand, from the skinny end outside, the
middle, next to the log, and the transmission, where I've got the coupling
mated with the bolts, but not yet tightened, as we've not yet aligned the
engine.

At this moment I'm about .005 off gap to starboard. That only happened when
I tightened down the last two of the mounts. It previously was about .003
off to bottom I was expecting that (changes as I tighten the various
elements of adjustment), of course. A couple of rounds of fiddling, and it
will be finished.

L8R

Skip

--

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

When a man comes to like a sea life, he is not fit to live on land.
- Dr. Samuel Johnson

Today started early - too early, as I couldn't get back to sleep after waking at 3:30AM.

So, I did as I always do after 30 minutes awake - I got up, and read.

Then I headed to the boat, where I resolved the conflict in my WiFi system, thus providing access to the dozen or so folks who have come to rely on my signal.

Then I dove into the engine room again, where, the short story is that I can't get my smallest feeler gauge, 0.003", between any place, at any rotation, on the joint between the coupling and transmission flange on the engine alignment I'd worried so much about.

Before that, I did the gross alignment, making the shaft centered in the exit tube and cutlass bearing, and hand-movable with little effort from outside, in the middle, and at the transmission.

The actual alignment was as expected, lots of cut-and-try, but now all is locked down. I'll let it settle for a couple of days, shake the engine as much as I can and check it again, but I'd bet I'm done, as my crawling all over the engine to get to the mounts, at my 200+ avoirdupois has surely caused it to move and settle nicely.

Reward is burger on the grill, followed by ice cream, before I head back tomorrow for more boat chores in prep for getting back on the high seas.

Great day!

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
Today started early - too early, as I couldn't get back to sleep after waking
at 3:30AM.

So, I did as I always do after 30 minutes awake - I got up, and read.

Then I headed to the boat, where I resolved the conflict in my WiFi system,
thus providing access to the dozen or so folks who have come to rely on my
signal.

Then I dove into the engine room again, where, the short story is that I can't
get my smallest feeler gauge, 0.003", between any place, at any rotation, on
the joint between the coupling and transmission flange on the engine alignment
I'd worried so much about.

Before that, I did the gross alignment, making the shaft centered in the exit
tube and cutlass bearing, and hand-movable with little effort from outside, in
the middle, and at the transmission.

The actual alignment was as expected, lots of cut-and-try, but now all is
locked down. I'll let it settle for a couple of days, shake the engine as much
as I can and check it again, but I'd bet I'm done, as my crawling all over the
engine to get to the mounts, at my 200+ avoirdupois has surely caused it to
move and settle nicely.

Reward is burger on the grill, followed by ice cream, before I head back
tomorrow for more boat chores in prep for getting back on the high seas.


====================[reply]======================


Most likely wasted effort and a premature pat on the back.
Come back and tell us the result once splashed. (That will
probably be in 2013 or 2014 if past performance is an
indication of future trends. LOL!)

It might just be better to leave the final tightening until the
"Pig" is floating again.

And, feeler gauges don't cut it. Best you use two dial gauges
working off the mating faces as I recommended. Once you
have them perfect you can draw the two flanges completely
together.

Read this:

http://www.hellersolutions.com/C350/...llManual10.pdf


Wilbur Hubbard

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
news:504a191a$0$62077

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed
to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in
the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with
the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both
top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller
shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as
the two flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get
them perfect is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you
rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral)
by hand both gauges must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh. Reading deficit, eh?

We got the shaft centered. That took care of the alignment with the
cutlass. The shaft turns readily, by hand, from the skinny end outside, the
middle, next to the log, and the transmission, where I've got the coupling
mated with the bolts, but not yet tightened, as we've not yet aligned the
engine.

That's what I'm talking about. When you snug up the two flanges (propeller
shaft flange and engine/transmission flange - assuming engine and transmission
are integreal) unless their two flange faces are perfectly alligned snugging
them down together will result is binding and releasing (vibration). Prior to
snugging them down face-to-face you must assure yourself that they are
perfectly parallel both horizontally and vertically. And, keep in mind,
depending upon the flexibility of your old hull, that the relationship may
well change when the boat is back in the water (not that that's EVER going to
happen, LOL!)

It can be rather tricky. Some of the Irwin 43's I helped build working as an
MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) experienced this problem as the hulls
were rather 'flexible' and the alignment was done on the production line. Some
needed to be re-done once splashed.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 17:07:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
news:504a191a$0$62077

Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed
to failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in
the log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with
the transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both
top to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller
shaft is centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as
the two flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get
them perfect is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you
rotate them with perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral)
by hand both gauges must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh. Reading deficit, eh?

We got the shaft centered. That took care of the alignment with the
cutlass. The shaft turns readily, by hand, from the skinny end outside, the
middle, next to the log, and the transmission, where I've got the coupling
mated with the bolts, but not yet tightened, as we've not yet aligned the
engine.

That's what I'm talking about. When you snug up the two flanges (propeller
shaft flange and engine/transmission flange - assuming engine and transmission
are integreal) unless their two flange faces are perfectly alligned snugging
them down together will result is binding and releasing (vibration). Prior to
snugging them down face-to-face you must assure yourself that they are
perfectly parallel both horizontally and vertically. And, keep in mind,
depending upon the flexibility of your old hull, that the relationship may
well change when the boat is back in the water (not that that's EVER going to
happen, LOL!)

It can be rather tricky. Some of the Irwin 43's I helped build working as an
MEP (mechanical, electrical, plumbing) experienced this problem as the hulls
were rather 'flexible' and the alignment was done on the production line. Some
needed to be re-done once splashed.


Wilbur Hubbard


Hey STUPID! Read the message before you set out to amaze us with your
knowledge (or lack thereof). The O.P. stated, "... but not yet
tightened, as we've not yet aligned the engine."

Read it again, "WE'VE NOT YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE".

Got it yet? HE HASN'T YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE, you ignorant fool.

Question. Does sweeping the floor and emptying the trash can
constitute "help build"?

"Bruce" wrote in message
...

[trim]


Hey STUPID! Read the message before you set out to amaze us with your
knowledge (or lack thereof). The O.P. stated, "... but not yet
tightened, as we've not yet aligned the engine."

Read it again, "WE'VE NOT YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE".

Duh, aligning the engine is a necessary part of the process. Because Skippy
has yet to do so does not mean that in order to align engine with propeller
shaft that he will never be doing so. He has even described how difficult the
engine bed alignment bolts were to reach and how he didn't have a wrench that
fits well. That means Skippy is 'in the process' of aligning the engine in
order to align the two shafts.

Got it yet? HE HASN'T YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE, you ignorant fool.

So you must be thinking that Skippy intends to never align the engine with the
propeller shaft so both shafts will be on the same centerline when looked at
both horizontally and vertically? How droll!

Question. Does sweeping the floor and emptying the trash can
constitute "help build"?

Yes, it does. Irwin hired several women whose job it was to clean up the
interior and exterior of the yachts while they were being built. The
carpenters, for example, would never DREAM of cleaning up their sawdust.

But, I was not a janitor. Now it is my turn to ask you, "CAN YOU READ?" as I
plainly stated I worked as an MEP. This means I installed systems that
included Mechanical (such as Yanmar engines) and air conditioners, sinks etc.,
Electrical, such as wiring, lighting, electric pumps, generators, distribution
panels, etc.) and Plumbing such as pressure water systems, waste systems, fuel
systems, etc.

Of course these things you never do sitting for 25 years at the Bangkok dock.
LOL!


Wilbur Hubbard

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 18:49:41 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .

[trim]


Hey STUPID! Read the message before you set out to amaze us with your
knowledge (or lack thereof). The O.P. stated, "... but not yet
tightened, as we've not yet aligned the engine."

Read it again, "WE'VE NOT YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE".

Duh, aligning the engine is a necessary part of the process. Because Skippy
has yet to do so does not mean that in order to align engine with propeller
shaft that he will never be doing so. He has even described how difficult the
engine bed alignment bolts were to reach and how he didn't have a wrench that
fits well. That means Skippy is 'in the process' of aligning the engine in
order to align the two shafts.

Got it yet? HE HASN'T YET ALIGNED THE ENGINE, you ignorant fool.

So you must be thinking that Skippy intends to never align the engine with the
propeller shaft so both shafts will be on the same centerline when looked at
both horizontally and vertically? How droll!

Question. Does sweeping the floor and emptying the trash can
constitute "help build"?

Yes, it does. Irwin hired several women whose job it was to clean up the
interior and exterior of the yachts while they were being built. The
carpenters, for example, would never DREAM of cleaning up their sawdust.

But, I was not a janitor. Now it is my turn to ask you, "CAN YOU READ?" as I
plainly stated I worked as an MEP. This means I installed systems that
included Mechanical (such as Yanmar engines) and air conditioners, sinks etc.,
Electrical, such as wiring, lighting, electric pumps, generators, distribution
panels, etc.) and Plumbing such as pressure water systems, waste systems, fuel
systems, etc.

Of course these things you never do sitting for 25 years at the Bangkok dock.
LOL!


Wilbur Hubbard

Janitor? No one argues that you ever attained this lofty position.
Goodness, being a janitor involves washing things and Dirty Willie has
never bragged about that (and it is sure that if he ever had, be would
have bragged about it).

NO, according to other posters Dirty Willie's highest skill attainment
consisted of reading a water meter.

On Fri, 7 Sep 2012 11:56:00 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
I made great progress in the alignment saga today. Lots more contortions, but
the exertion part was alleviated by the borrowing of a couple of very serious
wrenches, allowing me better leverage. Once I had stuff moving, I could use my
smaller wrenches to good effect, having the ability to move them further
because they were lots shorter.

I got all of the sliding stuff loose today, something I'd
been pretty concerned about. However, as most things I do will defer to brute
force, and I'm a brute, sometimes, I got things started.

At the moment we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face of the
coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the transmission.

As everything is entirely loose at the moment, I have little doubt that the
hard part is yet come, as every loose part has to be retightened, and every
time I do that, the alignment will change, slightly. However, I'll keep at it
(I'm known for patience), and as long as I've got it all loose, won't settle
for better than the .004 it was before (albeit, WAAAY off straight astern).

WooHoo!


================[reply]=======================


Poor Skippy!!! It sounds like your amateur attempt at alignment is doomed to
failure.

Why?

Because there is a lot more to alignment that just centering the shaft in the
log. A perfectly centered shaft can fail to be perfectly aligned with the
transmission output shaft/flange.

IOW, if the two flanges that bolt together are not perfectly parallel both top
to bottom and side to side and everywhere else, when the propeller shaft is
centered in the log there will be a terrible vibration set up as the two
flanges will bind and loosen as they rotate. The only way to get them perfect
is by using two dial gauges, one for each flange and as you rotate them with
perhaps an 18th inch of space between them (in neutral) by hand both gauges
must not move more than a blonde hair.

Sounds to me you are doing the job only halfway, Skippy.


Wilbur Hubbard


How in the world would a chap who's entire boating experience involves
a tiny plastic dinghy know anything about aligning an inboard
installed engine and drive line?

Easy.... he read it inna book and without other knowledge he professes
to be an expert. Stupidity knows no bounds, apparently.

Had you read the message, and had you an 8th grade command of English
you would note the paragraph in which the O.P. states "At the moment
we're nearly finished with the gross alignment of the shaft in
the exit tube. Once we have that set, we'll go about making the face
of the coupler match up perfectly with the flange on the
transmission."

But, as the Old Folks said, "stupid does as stupid does", and Willie
provides living proof that they were right.