"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
I told you I wasn't going to be pedantic - and gave you a clue, very
useful in your clueless case. Yet you refused to follow it.

So, here's just one link among many:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/my_wet_hull.htm

I await your erudition as to why what I'm going to do is worse than
leaving it ashore in an oven for a couple of years...


Comeuppance my aching arse! LOL.

That article says NOTHING about how this thick, sticky substance is supposed
to rise to the outside surface of the laminate all by it's little ole self.
One must wonder why it says nothing about that? Well, perhaps because it
defeats the whole stupid theory about hosing down the outside surface of the
laminate which does nothing more than closing the barn door after the
livestock has escaped.

The fact is that the fluid that pops up the blisters has increased in volume
due to osmosis. This increase in volume because of increased water content
is what creates the pressure that creates the blisters. The very same water
that got into the laminate over the years through osmotic action will get
out of the laminate via diffusion and evaporation over the months provided
there is a low enough humidity environment outside the stored hull. If you
could store the hull in low earth orbit, for example it would take all of a
week to completely dry it of moisture as the moisture would actually 'boil'
out due not only to humidity differences but to pressure differences.
Storing the boat in Florida where the relative humidity hovers around
70-100% would make it a very long and probably useless process. Someplace
near or above the arctic circle at a high altitude would be ten times more
effective due to low humidity around 10%.

But, finding such a vacuum chamber as outer space on earth would be
cost-prohibitive so the only alternative is a very low humidity environment
(cold baby cold like in the arctic) so the relative low humidity contained
in the air serves to hasten the drying process. The sticky or hard substance
that remains in the laminate after the water that got there via osmosis
diffuses away is of no or little consequence once the barrier coat is put on
as an effective barrier coat stops osmosis so it will remain a hard or stick
substance that will no longer absorb water to pop up more blisters.

The dumb method of hosing the surface down with water might be effective if
one could drill millions of tiny holes into the laminate to release all the
oozing sticky chemicals but just hosing down the outside of the hull with no
way for the water to penetrate relies solely on existing holes and oozing
chemicals. Sorry, but this is not effective in a total drying of the hull.

If you want to patent an effective blister elimination method, Skippy, and
get rich then patent a system and a tool that penetrates the entire bottom
to about the middle of the laminate with millions of tiny holes then hose it
down frequently with water to wash off the oozing chemicals then dip the
hull in an acetone bath several times and let it bleed the chemicals again
then dip the hull in some water-impermeable resin so it wicks into the
millions of holes and solidifies the hull then barrier coat it and you would
have an effective, relatively quick but permanent repair.

The method you are enamored of now is a half-assed method at best. Pie in
the sky.

Wilbur Hubbard

You can lead a horse's ass to water, but you can't make him think...


No, it's not drying. And the reason why is a very simple one. The wetness you
are attempting to dry is not water, but something else. In many cases, it can
sit there forever and never go away. You can prove this for yourself by
performing a simple test. Collect some fluid samples from blisters on any boat.
Rupture the blister with a sharp knife point, then press against it and let it
spray into an empty film canister. Then place droplets of the sample on a piece
of clean metal or glass. Take it home and put it in a cool, dry place for two weeks.

When you return to your samples you will find that it has not evaporated, but
has hardened into a droplet of near solid clear plastic with no detectable loss
in volume or size. It may remain somewhat sticky, or it may fully harden to the
touch. If you now take that sample and put it outside in very damp or humid
weather, you will find that it will soften up again. In other words, that
material is hydroscopic and will absorb water right out of the atmosphere. Now
add a drop of water to the sample. Surprise! It will dissolve the solidified
material very quickly. And if you take a moisture meter reading of the
solidified material on a piece of glass, you'll get a high reading.

What you will have just demonstrated is the reason why your hull won't dry, and
the answer on how to dry it. What is migrating out of your exposed hull laminate
is a combination of hydrolyzed polyester resin, salts and other chemicals. These
sometimes migrate to the surface where exposure to air causes the fluid to
naturally cure. But it doesn't go away. It just stays there alternately curing
and softening with the changing atmospheric conditions. On a rainy day, it will
probably become nearly fluid. After a few days of cool, dry weather it cures again.

Now that you know this gook is water soluble, you know how to get rid of it.
Yep, just take a hose and wash it away! But while the hull is wet, be sure to
give it about 30 minutes to completely dissolve.

"But won't I just be making my hull wetter by putting water on it?"

Yes, but only temporarily. _We've already discovered that the fluid weeping out
of the hull is NOT water and will NOT evaporate_. As you know, water evaporates
very quickly, and the water you use to rinse the hull down will too. Wet the
entire hull down and keep it wet for about thirty minutes. Then come back with a
hose nozzle and spray it with a bit of pressure to remove the remaining traces
since some of this stuff may take longer to dissolve.

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
news
You can lead a horse's ass to water, but you can't make him think...


No, it's not drying. And the reason why is a very simple one. The wetness
you are attempting to dry is not water, but something else.

That's where you're wrong. It is a solution that attracts water. The water
that it attracts can be diffused right back out. It is NOT an inseparable
chemical bond. It is a solution. Just like salt water is a solution. Diffuse
the water out of salt water and you end up with salt crystals. Duh!

In many cases, it can sit there forever and never go away.

Wrong again! It WILL diffuse and evaporate away given a hefty relative
humity gradient which Is what I advocate via storage near or above the
arctic circle where relative humidities are very low.

You can prove this for yourself by performing a simple test. Collect some
fluid samples from blisters on any boat. Rupture the blister with a sharp
knife point, then press against it and let it spray into an empty film
canister. Then place droplets of the sample on a piece of clean metal or
glass. Take it home and put it in a cool, dry place for two weeks.

But, ask yourself just what relative humitidy are you working with. If you
have a relative humidity of 80% for example then the chemical will remail
quite sticky. Take that same sample and place it in a low humidity
environment and it quickly becomes a solid because the water evaporates out
of solution. Duh!

When you return to your samples you will find that it has not evaporated,
but has hardened into a droplet of near solid clear plastic with no
detectable loss in volume or size.

Ask yourself what was the relative humidity when they conducted this test?
Huh? They didn't tell you. Surprise, surprise! Because they are as stupid
and gullible as you are they have believed a totally incomplete and biased
picture.

It may remain somewhat sticky, or it may fully harden to the touch. If
you now take that sample and put it outside in very damp or humid weather,
you will find that it will soften up again. In other words, that material
is hydroscopic and will absorb water right out of the atmosphere. Now add
a drop of water to the sample. Surprise! It will dissolve the solidified
material very quickly. And if you take a moisture meter reading of the
solidified material on a piece of glass, you'll get a high reading.

Atmosphere, smatmosphere. None of that applies to osmosis occurring under
water on a boat's bottom. Clueless dolts can't seem to understand this
simple fact.

What you will have just demonstrated is the reason why your hull won't
dry,

In a high humidity environment, of course the water won't diffuse out of the
hull and evaporate but please tell me when I have EVER advocated the hull be
stored in a high humidity environment? Just the opposite. I have always
maintained that the drying process must take place in a very low humidity
environment.

and the answer on how to dry it. What is migrating out of your exposed
hull laminate is a combination of hydrolyzed polyester resin, salts and
other chemicals.

Wrong. None of that will migrate out of a hull unless there are cracks or
holes. It will ONLY migrate out of cracks and holes and in areas where there
are no cracks and holes it will simple stay in the laminate during the
hose-down procedure. Only a moron with no imagination would believe
otherwise.

These sometimes migrate to the surface where exposure to air causes the
fluid to naturally cure.

Sometimes doesn't get it, pal!

But it doesn't go away.

Who gives a flying **** if the sticky chemicals in the layup go away. The
ONLY thing that matters is the water that, by osmosis, has combined with the
chemicals goes away. That can ONLY be accomplished by extensive drying in a
low-humidity environment. The water goes the chemicals that always were in
the layup remain. Coat the dry layup with a barrier coat and you end the
osmosis problem. WAKE THE **** UP, RUBE!

It just stays there alternately curing and softening with the changing
atmospheric conditions. On a rainy day, it will probably become nearly
fluid. After a few days of cool, dry weather it cures again.

Now, you are catching on. FINAL-****ING-LY! Like I said dry the damned
soggy laminate for two years in a low humidity environment. That's the only
real cure. Spraying with water is delusional and moronic.

Now that you know this gook is water soluble, you know how to get rid of
it. Yep, just take a hose and wash it away! But while the hull is wet, be
sure to give it about 30 minutes to completely dissolve.

But, MORON, it won't come out unless you give it a path to come out. Why
can't your cretins understand simple physics. Unless you drill millions of
small holes in the lamintate it won't come out to be washed off. How can
anybody be THIS FREAKING STUPID?

Now, go away and learn something about simple physics before you darken my
day again. You and all the other morons who are too stupid to understand how
you've been mislead by some new theory that simply doesn't stand up under
scrutiny.

Wilbur Hubbard

It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
m...
It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...




It is chemical IN SOLUTION WITH water. What goes into solution can evaporate
out of solution. What don't you and the other morons understand about
something this simple?

Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:40:45 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
om...
It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...




It is chemical IN SOLUTION WITH water. What goes into solution can evaporate
out of solution. What don't you and the other morons understand about
something this simple?

Wilbur Hubbard



Willie-boy, you are getting all confused. You are talking about a
mechanical mixture and it is a chemical mixture and a chemical
mixture, or solution, can't be separated.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:40:45 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
news:w8qdna8mV7lneSzQnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@earthlink. com...
It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...




It is chemical IN SOLUTION WITH water. What goes into solution can
evaporate
out of solution. What don't you and the other morons understand about
something this simple?

Wilbur Hubbard



Willie-boy, you are getting all confused. You are talking about a
mechanical mixture and it is a chemical mixture and a chemical
mixture, or solution, can't be separated.



Wrong! The darkish osmotic solution is no different in principle than sea
water which is also a solution. The water can be diffused and evaporated out
of salt water leaving various salts in crystal form along with trace
metallic elements, organics, etc.

In the same way, the water can be diffused and evaporated out of the
darkish, osmotic liquid that contains all sorts of chemicals like styrene,
MEKP, polyester resin, etc. Even that so-called authoritative article you
morons consider your Bible demonstrates this to be fact in that the droplets
of thinner chemical/water solution on the plate get thicker as they dry and
as the atmosphere become more humid they then absorb some water and get
thinner again. In the sun and a less humid atmosphere they get thicker and
harder. Duh! Open your mind, or the mush that passes for it!

You can't have it both ways, Lubber! My argument that the spraying the hull
with water is mostly ineffective in ridding the laminate of the trapped
moisture in the osmotic solution stands based upon the facts as stated. The
sprayed water simply cannot wash out the osmotic solution trapped inside the
laminate raising blisters (with the exception of areas that are cracked or
holed and we all know that is NOT everywhere). The only way to accomplish
this washing away by spraying would be to drill millions of small holes into
the laminate in the entire bottom so the trapped osmotic solution would have
egress so the sprayed water could then was it away.

As it stands, from a realistic physical standpoint, water sprayed on the
outside of the hull has as much chance of washing out the trapped osmotic
solution as your taking a shower and expecting it wash out your
blood/alcohol solution. LOL!

Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:28:17 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...


"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:28:17 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...


"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."


The part of the solution that is water acts exactly like water as it has no
other choice but to act like water because it IS water. Dirty water is water
nonetheless. Duh! You people are dullards and no mistake about it . . . You
seem to think that a water/chemical solution is an alloy or something. Or
perhaps you think it like concrete where the water is involved in a chemical
reaction that locks it up and all the evaporation in the world won't
retrieve it. Go back to school and take chemistry again. Sorry but that pig
won't fly. Concrete is not a solution nor is an alloy of metal like
stainless steel.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 11:05:46 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:28:17 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...


"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."


The part of the solution that is water acts exactly like water as it has no
other choice but to act like water because it IS water. Dirty water is water
nonetheless. Duh! You people are dullards and no mistake about it . . . You
seem to think that a water/chemical solution is an alloy or something. Or
perhaps you think it like concrete where the water is involved in a chemical
reaction that locks it up and all the evaporation in the world won't
retrieve it. Go back to school and take chemistry again. Sorry but that pig
won't fly. Concrete is not a solution nor is an alloy of metal like
stainless steel.

Wilbur Hubbard

Good Lord, what are you rabbeting on about? Concrete? Alloy? Water?
Who is talking about water or concrete or alloys of metal?

It really is true that stupid man's interpretation of what an
intelligent person says is never accurate because he unconsciously
translates what he hears into something he can understand.

And, you just proved it. Unless of course the subject has been changed
to ferro-concrete boats or alloy metal boats....
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)