" Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:42:02 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

you and the other fools can't refute my arguments.

David Pascoe is no fool and he has dealing with these issues
professionally for many years. Why not go argue with him?



If he is supporting this hosing down fraud then he's too stupid for me to
waste my valuable time on.

--
Gregory Hall



Right on, Gregory! I agree 100%

Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 11:44:08 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
I told you I wasn't going to be pedantic - and gave you a clue, very
useful in your clueless case. Yet you refused to follow it.

So, here's just one link among many:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/my_wet_hull.htm

I await your erudition as to why what I'm going to do is worse than
leaving it ashore in an oven for a couple of years...


Comeuppance my aching arse! LOL.

That article says NOTHING about how this thick, sticky substance is supposed
to rise to the outside surface of the laminate all by it's little ole self.
One must wonder why it says nothing about that? Well, perhaps because it
defeats the whole stupid theory about hosing down the outside surface of the
laminate which does nothing more than closing the barn door after the
livestock has escaped.

The fact is that the fluid that pops up the blisters has increased in volume
due to osmosis. This increase in volume because of increased water content
is what creates the pressure that creates the blisters. The very same water
that got into the laminate over the years through osmotic action will get
out of the laminate via diffusion and evaporation over the months provided
there is a low enough humidity environment outside the stored hull. If you
could store the hull in low earth orbit, for example it would take all of a
week to completely dry it of moisture as the moisture would actually 'boil'
out due not only to humidity differences but to pressure differences.
Storing the boat in Florida where the relative humidity hovers around
70-100% would make it a very long and probably useless process. Someplace
near or above the arctic circle at a high altitude would be ten times more
effective due to low humidity around 10%.

But, finding such a vacuum chamber as outer space on earth would be
cost-prohibitive so the only alternative is a very low humidity environment
(cold baby cold like in the arctic) so the relative low humidity contained
in the air serves to hasten the drying process. The sticky or hard substance
that remains in the laminate after the water that got there via osmosis
diffuses away is of no or little consequence once the barrier coat is put on
as an effective barrier coat stops osmosis so it will remain a hard or stick
substance that will no longer absorb water to pop up more blisters.

The dumb method of hosing the surface down with water might be effective if
one could drill millions of tiny holes into the laminate to release all the
oozing sticky chemicals but just hosing down the outside of the hull with no
way for the water to penetrate relies solely on existing holes and oozing
chemicals. Sorry, but this is not effective in a total drying of the hull.

If you want to patent an effective blister elimination method, Skippy, and
get rich then patent a system and a tool that penetrates the entire bottom
to about the middle of the laminate with millions of tiny holes then hose it
down frequently with water to wash off the oozing chemicals then dip the
hull in an acetone bath several times and let it bleed the chemicals again
then dip the hull in some water-impermeable resin so it wicks into the
millions of holes and solidifies the hull then barrier coat it and you would
have an effective, relatively quick but permanent repair.

The method you are enamored of now is a half-assed method at best. Pie in
the sky.

Wilbur Hubbard

Ah Willie-boy, you just keep going on and on amazing us with your
brilliance and great knowledge... Unfortunately all of it is wrong.

Perhaps because you are getting on in years you are simply parroting
information which was thought to have been be correct years ago has
been totally superceded by better and more accurate information over
the now.

But, exactly like the people who insisted for centuries that because
the sun rose in the east and set in the west that it was obvious that
the sun orbited the earth you are totally wrong. I can hear their
arguments even now - "It stands to reason"... :"Everybody knows"....
"You don't understand physics"... all the old faithful arguments used
by ignorant people over the years. You see Willie-boy you are neither
intelligent nor original. Just ignorant.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 14:58:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

You can lead a horse's ass to water, but you can't make him think...


No, it's not drying. And the reason why is a very simple one. The wetness you
are attempting to dry is not water, but something else. In many cases, it can
sit there forever and never go away. You can prove this for yourself by
performing a simple test. Collect some fluid samples from blisters on any boat.
Rupture the blister with a sharp knife point, then press against it and let it
spray into an empty film canister. Then place droplets of the sample on a piece
of clean metal or glass. Take it home and put it in a cool, dry place for two weeks.

When you return to your samples you will find that it has not evaporated, but
has hardened into a droplet of near solid clear plastic with no detectable loss
in volume or size. It may remain somewhat sticky, or it may fully harden to the
touch. If you now take that sample and put it outside in very damp or humid
weather, you will find that it will soften up again. In other words, that
material is hydroscopic and will absorb water right out of the atmosphere. Now
add a drop of water to the sample. Surprise! It will dissolve the solidified
material very quickly. And if you take a moisture meter reading of the
solidified material on a piece of glass, you'll get a high reading.

What you will have just demonstrated is the reason why your hull won't dry, and
the answer on how to dry it. What is migrating out of your exposed hull laminate
is a combination of hydrolyzed polyester resin, salts and other chemicals. These
sometimes migrate to the surface where exposure to air causes the fluid to
naturally cure. But it doesn't go away. It just stays there alternately curing
and softening with the changing atmospheric conditions. On a rainy day, it will
probably become nearly fluid. After a few days of cool, dry weather it cures again.

Now that you know this gook is water soluble, you know how to get rid of it.
Yep, just take a hose and wash it away! But while the hull is wet, be sure to
give it about 30 minutes to completely dissolve.

"But won't I just be making my hull wetter by putting water on it?"

Yes, but only temporarily. _We've already discovered that the fluid weeping out
of the hull is NOT water and will NOT evaporate_. As you know, water evaporates
very quickly, and the water you use to rinse the hull down will too. Wet the
entire hull down and keep it wet for about thirty minutes. Then come back with a
hose nozzle and spray it with a bit of pressure to remove the remaining traces
since some of this stuff may take longer to dissolve.


No, no! You must be wrong.

After all Willy-boy has explained and everything he says is as though
"from God's mouth to your ear", as some would have it :-)

Isn't it?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 11:44:08 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
...
I told you I wasn't going to be pedantic - and gave you a clue, very
useful in your clueless case. Yet you refused to follow it.

So, here's just one link among many:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/my_wet_hull.htm

I await your erudition as to why what I'm going to do is worse than
leaving it ashore in an oven for a couple of years...


Comeuppance my aching arse! LOL.

That article says NOTHING about how this thick, sticky substance is
supposed
to rise to the outside surface of the laminate all by it's little ole
self.
One must wonder why it says nothing about that? Well, perhaps because it
defeats the whole stupid theory about hosing down the outside surface of
the
laminate which does nothing more than closing the barn door after the
livestock has escaped.

The fact is that the fluid that pops up the blisters has increased in
volume
due to osmosis. This increase in volume because of increased water content
is what creates the pressure that creates the blisters. The very same
water
that got into the laminate over the years through osmotic action will get
out of the laminate via diffusion and evaporation over the months provided
there is a low enough humidity environment outside the stored hull. If you
could store the hull in low earth orbit, for example it would take all of
a
week to completely dry it of moisture as the moisture would actually
'boil'
out due not only to humidity differences but to pressure differences.
Storing the boat in Florida where the relative humidity hovers around
70-100% would make it a very long and probably useless process. Someplace
near or above the arctic circle at a high altitude would be ten times more
effective due to low humidity around 10%.

But, finding such a vacuum chamber as outer space on earth would be
cost-prohibitive so the only alternative is a very low humidity
environment
(cold baby cold like in the arctic) so the relative low humidity contained
in the air serves to hasten the drying process. The sticky or hard
substance
that remains in the laminate after the water that got there via osmosis
diffuses away is of no or little consequence once the barrier coat is put
on
as an effective barrier coat stops osmosis so it will remain a hard or
stick
substance that will no longer absorb water to pop up more blisters.

The dumb method of hosing the surface down with water might be effective
if
one could drill millions of tiny holes into the laminate to release all
the
oozing sticky chemicals but just hosing down the outside of the hull with
no
way for the water to penetrate relies solely on existing holes and oozing
chemicals. Sorry, but this is not effective in a total drying of the hull.

If you want to patent an effective blister elimination method, Skippy, and
get rich then patent a system and a tool that penetrates the entire bottom
to about the middle of the laminate with millions of tiny holes then hose
it
down frequently with water to wash off the oozing chemicals then dip the
hull in an acetone bath several times and let it bleed the chemicals again
then dip the hull in some water-impermeable resin so it wicks into the
millions of holes and solidifies the hull then barrier coat it and you
would
have an effective, relatively quick but permanent repair.

The method you are enamored of now is a half-assed method at best. Pie in
the sky.

Wilbur Hubbard

Ah Willie-boy, you just keep going on and on amazing us with your
brilliance and great knowledge... Unfortunately all of it is wrong.

Perhaps because you are getting on in years you are simply parroting
information which was thought to have been be correct years ago has
been totally superceded by better and more accurate information over
the now.

But, exactly like the people who insisted for centuries that because
the sun rose in the east and set in the west that it was obvious that
the sun orbited the earth you are totally wrong. I can hear their
arguments even now - "It stands to reason"... :"Everybody knows"....
"You don't understand physics"... all the old faithful arguments used
by ignorant people over the years. You see Willie-boy you are neither
intelligent nor original. Just ignorant.


Too bad straw men don't fly. LOL!

Not one attempt to address the facts pretty much proves you've been
defeated.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:19:44 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
news
You can lead a horse's ass to water, but you can't make him think...


No, it's not drying. And the reason why is a very simple one. The wetness
you are attempting to dry is not water, but something else.

That's where you're wrong. It is a solution that attracts water. The water
that it attracts can be diffused right back out. It is NOT an inseparable
chemical bond. It is a solution. Just like salt water is a solution. Diffuse
the water out of salt water and you end up with salt crystals. Duh!

Unfortunately, while you can talk about salt and water until the cows
come home. What is happening is two substances chemically combining
and form a new substance that cannot be separated, Called, strangely
enough a "chemical mixture" as opposed to your "mechanical mixture" of
salt and water.

In many cases, it can sit there forever and never go away.

Wrong again! It WILL diffuse and evaporate away given a hefty relative
humity gradient which Is what I advocate via storage near or above the
arctic circle where relative humidities are very low.

It never goes away. You can put a blistered hull "on the hard" and the
blisters never go away.

You can prove this for yourself by performing a simple test. Collect some
fluid samples from blisters on any boat. Rupture the blister with a sharp
knife point, then press against it and let it spray into an empty film
canister. Then place droplets of the sample on a piece of clean metal or
glass. Take it home and put it in a cool, dry place for two weeks.

But, ask yourself just what relative humitidy are you working with. If you
have a relative humidity of 80% for example then the chemical will remail
quite sticky. Take that same sample and place it in a low humidity
environment and it quickly becomes a solid because the water evaporates out
of solution. Duh!

Willie-boy, use google and discover a "chemical mixture" which cannot
be unmixed...

When you return to your samples you will find that it has not evaporated,
but has hardened into a droplet of near solid clear plastic with no
detectable loss in volume or size.

Ask yourself what was the relative humidity when they conducted this test?
Huh? They didn't tell you. Surprise, surprise! Because they are as stupid
and gullible as you are they have believed a totally incomplete and biased
picture.

It may remain somewhat sticky, or it may fully harden to the touch. If
you now take that sample and put it outside in very damp or humid weather,
you will find that it will soften up again. In other words, that material
is and will absorb water right out of the atmosphere. Now add
a drop of water to the sample. Surprise! It will dissolve the solidified
material very quickly. And if you take a moisture meter reading of the
solidified material on a piece of glass, you'll get a high reading.

"Hydroscopic". Big words to come out a stupid mouth. Unfortunately
wrong again, the word is "hygroscopic". But in any case, if you were
correct a fiberglass hull would develop osmosis from sitting on the
hard in Florida.....


Atmosphere, smatmosphere. None of that applies to osmosis occurring under
water on a boat's bottom. Clueless dolts can't seem to understand this
simple fact.

Willie-boy, I must admit that once in a great while you actually hit
the nail on the head. You are right Mr. Willie (Clueless Dolt)-boy,
you can't understand this.


What you will have just demonstrated is the reason why your hull won't
dry,

In a high humidity environment, of course the water won't diffuse out of the
hull and evaporate but please tell me when I have EVER advocated the hull be
stored in a high humidity environment? Just the opposite. I have always
maintained that the drying process must take place in a very low humidity
environment.

and the answer on how to dry it. What is migrating out of your exposed
hull laminate is a combination of hydrolyzed polyester resin, salts and
other chemicals.

It isn't "hydrolyzed polyester resin" although I admit that sounds
very impressive it isn't correct.

Damn Willie-boy, you are batting a thousand aren't you? Letting that
old ignorance just billow out where everyone can see it. "Wrong again
Willie" in all his glory.


Wrong. None of that will migrate out of a hull unless there are cracks or
holes. It will ONLY migrate out of cracks and holes and in areas where there
are no cracks and holes it will simple stay in the laminate during the
hose-down procedure. Only a moron with no imagination would believe
otherwise.

These sometimes migrate to the surface where exposure to air causes the
fluid to naturally cure.

Sometimes doesn't get it, pal!

But it doesn't go away.

Who gives a flying **** if the sticky chemicals in the layup go away. The
ONLY thing that matters is the water that, by osmosis, has combined with the
chemicals goes away. That can ONLY be accomplished by extensive drying in a
low-humidity environment. The water goes the chemicals that always were in
the layup remain. Coat the dry layup with a barrier coat and you end the
osmosis problem. WAKE THE **** UP, RUBE!

Willie-boy I certainly hope that no one takes you seriously as they
will spend a lot of money and get nowhere.

The only one who needs to wake up is Willie-boy. But unfortunately you
are one of those fools who confuse your preconceived notions with
facts and although proved wrong time after time never learn.

It just stays there alternately curing and softening with the changing
atmospheric conditions. On a rainy day, it will probably become nearly
fluid. After a few days of cool, dry weather it cures again.

Now, you are catching on. FINAL-****ING-LY! Like I said dry the damned
soggy laminate for two years in a low humidity environment. That's the only
real cure. Spraying with water is delusional and moronic.

Now that you know this gook is water soluble, you know how to get rid of
it. Yep, just take a hose and wash it away! But while the hull is wet, be
sure to give it about 30 minutes to completely dissolve.

But, MORON, it won't come out unless you give it a path to come out. Why
can't your cretins understand simple physics. Unless you drill millions of
small holes in the lamintate it won't come out to be washed off. How can
anybody be THIS FREAKING STUPID?

Now, go away and learn something about simple physics before you darken my
day again. You and all the other morons who are too stupid to understand how
you've been mislead by some new theory that simply doesn't stand up under
scrutiny.

Wilbur Hubbard

Err.... Willie-boy, I sure hate to wake you up but "osmosis" is not a
term used in physics. It is used in chemistry and biology.

As for new theory... It has been proved over and over that simply
drying a hull doesn't eliminate osmosis, thus the first change to
"peeling" a hull which is costly and still doesn't make the problem go
away. so your "facts" aren't even "yesterdays news" they are 40 or 50
year old theories that have long since been proved incorrect.

Your insistence that your antiqued ideas are correct is on a par with
the lads that calculated that the Bumblebee couldn't fly.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:40:45 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
om...
It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...




It is chemical IN SOLUTION WITH water. What goes into solution can evaporate
out of solution. What don't you and the other morons understand about
something this simple?

Wilbur Hubbard



Willie-boy, you are getting all confused. You are talking about a
mechanical mixture and it is a chemical mixture and a chemical
mixture, or solution, can't be separated.


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:28:17 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

It's NOT WATER!

It may have been water at one time, but it's not anymore.

That's the point everybody has been trying to make here.

Since it's not water, it doesn't BEHAVE like water...


"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:42:02 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"CaveLamb" wrote in message
om...



I tell ya, Wilbur, with your personality disorder(s),
I'd never want to be around you.

Certainly never want to ship out with you.

You suck.



And, even more certainly, you and the other fools can't refute my arguments.

Wilbur Hubbard


Willie-boy you theories have been refuted nearly every time you open
your mouth. Certainly they have in reference to osmosis. Unfortunately
you seem to have some sort of learning disability so you can't seem to
see the truth.

Perhaps reading a better sort of sailing magazine you;d help.... but
perhaps the news stand where you steal your reading material doesn't
stock them?


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 18:01:44 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

" Sir Gregory Hall, Esq." wrote in message
...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:42:02 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

you and the other fools can't refute my arguments.

David Pascoe is no fool and he has dealing with these issues
professionally for many years. Why not go argue with him?



If he is supporting this hosing down fraud then he's too stupid for me to
waste my valuable time on.

--
Gregory Hall



Right on, Gregory! I agree 100%

Wilbur Hubbard

Self gratification I believe it is called.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 17:36:14 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:42:02 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

you and the other fools can't refute my arguments.

David Pascoe is no fool and he has dealing with these issues
professionally for many years. Why not go argue with him?


I referenced him to Pascoe's site but Willie-boy's ideas conflicted
with Pascoe's although Pascoe's were developed from his years of
experience so it is obvious to Willie-boy that Pascoe must be wrong.
Stands to reason; everybody knows; you don't understand physics
(although the problem is chemical), etc.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)