"Bruce" wrote in message
...
snip



This from a bloke that brags a photo of himself sitting in a tiny boat
petting a pussy?

A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate
any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where.


With pretensions of being a political pundit now? Truly the land of
the fruits and the nuts.

I have always represented a voice of conservative reason.


As for being a sailor both Joe and I have at least some reason to call
ourselves a "sailor" as we have both sailed somewhere. Willie-the Poo,
conversely, has never sailed anywhere and rates himself an expert.

Wrong! Both of you are demonstrable failures. Only in your liberal minds,
where trying is more important than succeeding, can you fool yourselves into
believing that, since you tried, then your failures are secondary. Talk
about a warped way of thinking.

In the real world, trying is something everybody must do. Trying is not the
goal but only represents the first step towards the goal. If one falls down
after the first step one should not pat himself on the back and say, "Oh
well, that didn't go so well but I'm successful at walking because I tried."
WRONG! If one falls down after the first step, one should say, "Well, I'm
sure a failure at that. But, I can learn from failing so what have I learned
so the next step I take doesn't result in failure all over again?"

You and Joe, being liberal drones, don't think this way. You equate trying
with success. You have set the bar way too low and will always remain
failures because of your liberal thinking that try = success. You are
incapable of learning from failure because you don't and won't man up to
your failures. Such an untenable belief system. I just couldn't live like
that.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
snip



This from a bloke that brags a photo of himself sitting in a tiny boat
petting a pussy?

A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate
any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where.


there is room for you, and a rat, on the yellow dinghy?

With pretensions of being a political pundit now? Truly the land of
the fruits and the nuts.

I have always represented a voice of conservative reason.


As for being a sailor both Joe and I have at least some reason to call
ourselves a "sailor" as we have both sailed somewhere. Willie-the Poo,
conversely, has never sailed anywhere and rates himself an expert.

Wrong! Both of you are demonstrable failures. Only in your liberal minds,
where trying is more important than succeeding, can you fool yourselves into
believing that, since you tried, then your failures are secondary. Talk
about a warped way of thinking.

In the real world, trying is something everybody must do. Trying is not the
goal but only represents the first step towards the goal. If one falls down
after the first step one should not pat himself on the back and say, "Oh
well, that didn't go so well but I'm successful at walking because I tried."
WRONG! If one falls down after the first step, one should say, "Well, I'm
sure a failure at that. But, I can learn from failing so what have I learned
so the next step I take doesn't result in failure all over again?"


Errr, Willie, I'm here in Thailand, and you are still anchored in
Florida? And somehow this indicates that you are the sailorman and I'm
not.....

Something wrong with your logic I'm afraid.


You and Joe, being liberal drones, don't think this way. You equate trying
with success. You have set the bar way too low and will always remain
failures because of your liberal thinking that try = success. You are
incapable of learning from failure because you don't and won't man up to
your failures. Such an untenable belief system. I just couldn't live like
that.


Liberal drones? what ever gave you that idea? I certainly would like
to see your evidence to support that statement..

Or did you read it in a book?



Wilbur Hubbard

Cheers,

Bruce

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate
any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where.

there is room for you, and a rat, on the yellow dinghy?

Many ocean-going sailors will confirm the fact that a 27-30 foot sailboat is
the ideal size because of the wavelength and frequency of prevailing winds
generated wave trains. Something about twice that size ends up being a
rougher ride by far and can be overwhelmed and pooped in a following sea
whereas the modest-size vessel just rides up and over like a duck. So, get a
clue. Loose that stupid bigger is better attitude. It only paints you as
ignorant of real world sailing.

snip


Errr, Willie, I'm here in Thailand, and you are still anchored in
Florida? And somehow this indicates that you are the sailorman and I'm
not.....

Admission of failure noted. While I have cruised thousands of miles, I have
never been stranded in some backwater for 30 years like you have. I have met
all my goals and have not been forced into expatriation by virtue of a
dearth of perserverance and/or skills.

Something wrong with your logic I'm afraid.

You're afraid, alright. Afraid of going the rest of the way around. LOL!
Keep telling yourself that half of your goal is success. One day in the
distant future you might even come to really believe it.


Liberal drones? what ever gave you that idea? I certainly would like
to see your evidence to support that statement..


Your brainwashed state and Joe's brainwashed state respecting equating
trying with succeeding is at the very core of liberal drone thinking. It's
the very same thought process that has children playing soccer, softball,
etc. and not keeping score because there can be no losers. Get a clue. In
life there ARE winners and losers and just because one tries, it doesn't
keep one from being a failure and a loser when one does not succeed. You and
Joe are quite pitiful really. Joe brags that he's the better man because he,
at least, tried. Never mind that he tried AND failed miserably. So, by his
reasoning, a miserable failure is better than somebody with goals he tries
and succeeds at attaining even though the goals don't seem quite so lofty?
So you have a failure presuming to be the arbiter of loft? That doesn't
strike you as ludicrous and inane? You can't see that grinding to a halt
half-way around is no success no matter how hard you try to rationalize it,
after the fact?


Wilbur Hubbard

On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:35:26 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 13:12:37 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

A kitty cat is a proper addition to a sailing yacht as they will eliminate
any mouse or rat that might come aboard from who knows where.

there is room for you, and a rat, on the yellow dinghy?

Many ocean-going sailors will confirm the fact that a 27-30 foot sailboat is
the ideal size because of the wavelength and frequency of prevailing winds
generated wave trains. Something about twice that size ends up being a
rougher ride by far and can be overwhelmed and pooped in a following sea
whereas the modest-size vessel just rides up and over like a duck. So, get a
clue. Loose that stupid bigger is better attitude. It only paints you as
ignorant of real world sailing.

Ah Willie, I see you've been reading the Pardey's. If you read Lynn's
earliest stories you world have discovered that the major reason for
building Seraffyn (24'7") was lack of money to build bigger and the
Pardey's first published exercise was a letter to the editor of a
sailing magazine, in response to a published article, in which they
argue that a little boat can be as seaworthy as a big boat.

But your argue that a 27-30 ft. boat is ideal is just a pipe dream. A
VLCC or Box Carrier will be doing 30 K in weather that will keep you
in the harbor. Obviously you (once again) don't know what you are
talking about.

As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.


snip


Errr, Willie, I'm here in Thailand, and you are still anchored in
Florida? And somehow this indicates that you are the sailorman and I'm
not.....

Admission of failure noted. While I have cruised thousands of miles, I have
never been stranded in some backwater for 30 years like you have. I have met
all my goals and have not been forced into expatriation by virtue of a
dearth of perserverance and/or skills.

How so Backwater? Are you comparing your S. Florida cove with Bali,
Jakarta, Singapore, Port Klang, Pinang, Or any of the Thai ports, and
that just covers a fraction of the places I've anchored in the past
few years.


Something wrong with your logic I'm afraid.

You're afraid, alright. Afraid of going the rest of the way around. LOL!
Keep telling yourself that half of your goal is success. One day in the
distant future you might even come to really believe it.

I'm beginning to wonder about your continued rabbeting on about goals.
What ever are you going on about? My "goals" have been varied over the
years but have never been to sail a boat somewhere. It isn't a "goal"
to somehow be accomplished any more then driving to the convenience
store to get a can of beer. You just get in and go.

You see Willie-boy, you are romanticizing a subject that is just an
everyday occurrence. One of the shortcomings of reading rather then
doing.



Liberal drones? what ever gave you that idea? I certainly would like
to see your evidence to support that statement..


Your brainwashed state and Joe's brainwashed state respecting equating
trying with succeeding is at the very core of liberal drone thinking. It's
the very same thought process that has children playing soccer, softball,
etc. and not keeping score because there can be no losers. Get a clue. In
life there ARE winners and losers and just because one tries, it doesn't
keep one from being a failure and a loser when one does not succeed. You and
Joe are quite pitiful really. Joe brags that he's the better man because he,
at least, tried. Never mind that he tried AND failed miserably. So, by his
reasoning, a miserable failure is better than somebody with goals he tries
and succeeds at attaining even though the goals don't seem quite so lofty?
So you have a failure presuming to be the arbiter of loft? That doesn't
strike you as ludicrous and inane? You can't see that grinding to a halt
half-way around is no success no matter how hard you try to rationalize it,
after the fact?

The more you talk the more it appears that you really know nothing
about sailing. Your talk about winners and losers, failure and
winning, and all the other bumph that you spout is just that and
exposes your utter lack of knowledge about boats.

Boats are not some sort of Everest that has to be conquer. It is just
a form of transportation. Like your bicycle, a motor-car, even shoes.
Go you rabbit on about riding your bike to the 7-11 to get a tube of
toothpaste? Or extol your shoes and how you walk from house to house
reading the water-meters?

Willie-boy you go on about the romance and mystique of boating just
exactly like all the other wannabes. Try talking to someone who has
actually sailed to somewhere and you will be surprised at the lack of
romance there is. Just load the boat, check the mail, and go.


Wilbur Hubbard

Cheers,

Bruce

As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.

My dear Bruce. I belive the defintion of getting pooped is when water
is shiped on deck. TO have a wave pass the boat is simply that: a wave
going by.

Please forgive me if I misunderstood your post.

Bob

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:23:17 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote:


As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.

My dear Bruce. I belive the defintion of getting pooped is when water
is shiped on deck. TO have a wave pass the boat is simply that: a wave
going by.

Please forgive me if I misunderstood your post.

Bob

I suspect that you are correct and I was guilty of jumping to the
conclusion that Willie was talking about running before the wind as a
storm tactic, in which case being pooped is usually when you aren't
traveling at wave speed and the waves are breaking over the stern.
Cheers,

Bruce

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:23:17 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote:


As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.

My dear Bruce. I belive the defintion of getting pooped is when water
is shiped on deck. TO have a wave pass the boat is simply that: a wave
going by.

Please forgive me if I misunderstood your post.

Bob

I suspect that you are correct and I was guilty of jumping to the
conclusion that Willie was talking about running before the wind as a
storm tactic, in which case being pooped is usually when you aren't
traveling at wave speed and the waves are breaking over the stern.
Cheers,

Bruce




What a simpleton! A ballasted, monohull sailboat will not be able to outrun
the wave train. Fast multi-hulls may but the type of sailboat under
discussion here will have waves approach from astern (when running which is
the hoped-for case in the trades and elsewhere as in 'fair winds') slip
under the stern or quarter and move away from the bow.

If the wavelength happens to be (because of any number of diverse conditions
of wind, sea and depth) just slightly different than LOA, as the bow is
lifted by the wave exiting the bow the stern falls into the trough just in
time to have the top of the wave approaching from the stern poop it.

Pah! You must have been lying about voyaging - either that or too drunk or
asleep to observe how things work.


Wilbur Hubbard

Please forgive me if I misunderstood your post.

Bob

I suspect that you are correct and I was *guilty of jumping to the
conclusion that Willie was talking about ....

Cheers,

Bruce

Hello Bruce... No aplogizes needed I tend to shoot off my mouth after
giving a post only a brife look. I think the last time I did that was
some psot about house bank size and 12 and 110 volt charging systems.
I need to give each post a sincer reading but I am not as patient as
you. so at times i sound like an idiot because i didnt read a post
closley enough but thats okay with me cause most the post here lack
credible content.

bob

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
Ah Willie, I see you've been reading the Pardey's. If you read Lynn's
earliest stories you world have discovered that the major reason for
building Seraffyn (24'7") was lack of money to build bigger and the
Pardey's first published exercise was a letter to the editor of a
sailing magazine, in response to a published article, in which they
argue that a little boat can be as seaworthy as a big boat.

But your argue that a 27-30 ft. boat is ideal is just a pipe dream. A
VLCC or Box Carrier will be doing 30 K in weather that will keep you
in the harbor. Obviously you (once again) don't know what you are
talking about.

As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.


Boy, you sure display your sailing ignorance with each and every post.

If you have a boat that is fifty feet LOA and she is in a wave train that is
45 feet crest to crest just imagine what happens when running. Yes, the bow
goes up the wave in front and the stern drops just in time for the crest of
the following wave to poop the hell out of the transom. A 25-foot boat is
totally unaffected.


How so Backwater? Are you comparing your S. Florida cove with Bali,
Jakarta, Singapore, Port Klang, Pinang, Or any of the Thai ports, and
that just covers a fraction of the places I've anchored in the past
few years.

Proof? How about some photos.

snip


I'm beginning to wonder about your continued rabbeting on about goals.
What ever are you going on about? My "goals" have been varied over the
years but have never been to sail a boat somewhere. It isn't a "goal"
to somehow be accomplished any more then driving to the convenience
store to get a can of beer. You just get in and go.

You see Willie-boy, you are romanticizing a subject that is just an
everyday occurrence. One of the shortcomings of reading rather then
doing.


Like I said, I have thousands of miles under my keel. I regularly sail in
more challenging conditions than you dream of. I've been on the open ocean
several times and it's nothing. Piece of cake and a rather boring one at
that. The real challenge is coastal cruising. The real enjoyment is coastal
cruising.





snip


The more you talk the more it appears that you really know nothing
about sailing. Your talk about winners and losers, failure and
winning, and all the other bumph that you spout is just that and
exposes your utter lack of knowledge about boats.


Says the ground-to-a-halt voyager (since 35 years) who doesn't even
understand simple wavelength concepts. Says the dock dweller. Pah!


Boats are not some sort of Everest that has to be conquer. It is just
a form of transportation. Like your bicycle, a motor-car, even shoes.
Go you rabbit on about riding your bike to the 7-11 to get a tube of
toothpaste? Or extol your shoes and how you walk from house to house
reading the water-meters?

Now I think I begin to understand why you failed. Modern sailboats to us
real sailors represent a lifestyle. A sailboat is a home, a time machine, an
interface dancer, a compilation of systems the sailor must be intimately
familiar with and able to repair and modify when necessary. A sailboat is
FAR more than transportation. Your attitude that a sailboat is just
transportion tells me you weren't ever able to appreciate what a sailboat
really is by virtue of the fact of your self-centeredness and ungodliness
where you place yourself in the center of the universe. This arrogance is
why you failed - you failed to appreciated the beauty of the machine and the
lifestyle. You viewed it as just another way to move your sorry fat carcass
around. This is so sad.


Willie-boy you go on about the romance and mystique of boating just
exactly like all the other wannabes. Try talking to someone who has
actually sailed to somewhere and you will be surprised at the lack of
romance there is. Just load the boat, check the mail, and go.


Perhaps you are to be pitied because you are too staid to ever appreciate
the beauty, romance, utility and connectedness of sailing. But, now all our
readers understand why you failed - one cannot master something one does not
understand.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:17:53 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Bruce" wrote in message
.. .
Ah Willie, I see you've been reading the Pardey's. If you read Lynn's
earliest stories you world have discovered that the major reason for
building Seraffyn (24'7") was lack of money to build bigger and the
Pardey's first published exercise was a letter to the editor of a
sailing magazine, in response to a published article, in which they
argue that a little boat can be as seaworthy as a big boat.

But your argue that a 27-30 ft. boat is ideal is just a pipe dream. A
VLCC or Box Carrier will be doing 30 K in weather that will keep you
in the harbor. Obviously you (once again) don't know what you are
talking about.

As for being pooped, boat length has nothing to do with it. If the
wave travels faster then the boat you get pooped, if the boat is at
wave speed, or faster, then you don't. But then, you don't have to
read a book to discover that little gem... just go sailing.


Boy, you sure display your sailing ignorance with each and every post.

If you have a boat that is fifty feet LOA and she is in a wave train that is
45 feet crest to crest just imagine what happens when running. Yes, the bow
goes up the wave in front and the stern drops just in time for the crest of
the following wave to poop the hell out of the transom. A 25-foot boat is
totally unaffected.

Good thinking.... and true, however...

A wave that was only 45 feet from crest to crest is a pretty small
wave. In fact, I can't even find a calculation that can be used to
calculate the dimensions of a wave this small. The closest I can find
by interpretation from the charts I have is:

A wave with a velocity of 10 M/S (36 MPH) in 10 M (~32 ft.) of water
would have a wave period of less then 4 seconds and a length of 200 M.

In other words your example is a highly unlikely (perhaps impossible)
situation.


How so Backwater? Are you comparing your S. Florida cove with Bali,
Jakarta, Singapore, Port Klang, Pinang, Or any of the Thai ports, and
that just covers a fraction of the places I've anchored in the past
few years.

Proof? How about some photos.

Sure, as soon as you post your log books along with proof that you
didn't concoct them out of thin air. Shoot! You can't even prove who
you are.

snip


I'm beginning to wonder about your continued rabbeting on about goals.
What ever are you going on about? My "goals" have been varied over the
years but have never been to sail a boat somewhere. It isn't a "goal"
to somehow be accomplished any more then driving to the convenience
store to get a can of beer. You just get in and go.

You see Willie-boy, you are romanticizing a subject that is just an
everyday occurrence. One of the shortcomings of reading rather then
doing.


Like I said, I have thousands of miles under my keel. I regularly sail in
more challenging conditions than you dream of. I've been on the open ocean
several times and it's nothing. Piece of cake and a rather boring one at
that. The real challenge is coastal cruising. The real enjoyment is coastal
cruising.

You are perfectly correct that you claim to have sailed thousands of
miles. In more challenging conditions then I, and you again claim that
conditions were more challenging, and all of it coastal, i.e., never
out of sight of land. But that is your claim.

I've actually done it.


Says the ground-to-a-halt voyager (since 35 years) who doesn't even
understand simple wavelength concepts. Says the dock dweller. Pah!

But, as I wrote above, I do understand wave dynamics and that is why I
don't listen to fools like you.


Boats are not some sort of Everest that has to be conquer. It is just
a form of transportation. Like your bicycle, a motor-car, even shoes.
Go you rabbit on about riding your bike to the 7-11 to get a tube of
toothpaste? Or extol your shoes and how you walk from house to house
reading the water-meters?

Now I think I begin to understand why you failed. Modern sailboats to us
real sailors represent a lifestyle. A sailboat is a home, a time machine, an
interface dancer, a compilation of systems the sailor must be intimately
familiar with and able to repair and modify when necessary. A sailboat is
FAR more than transportation.

What absolutely ignorance.

A Home, is it? Well, I've lived on a sailboat for most of 20 years
now.

A time machine? Well, I'll admit I am getting older.

An "interface dancer"? what in the world is that?

A compilation of systems? What are you going on about?

Sailing a boat is hardly as difficult or challenging as flying an
airplane and I could do that, albeit with an adult in the plane, when
I was 12 years old.

I sailed a 28 (FOD) Miscongus Bay Sloop (you may call it a "Friendship
Sloop, but that is wrong), with no engine, for several years up and
down the Maine coast with a one burner kerosene stove, a compass and a
Mobile Oil road map. No electrics except for a flashlight; no radio.
Canvas sails, manila ropes and a lead line.

I built my first boat when I was 12 years old (with my father's help.
It was only a small row boat, but it was a boat.

I have always made my own repairs, wood, fiberglass hulls, Wood and
aluminum spars, I can (under duress) splice wire rope from 1 X 19
through 7 X 7, and could do that since I was 19. I was a code welder
and can weld most metals including aluminum and titanium.

So don't go blathering on about the romance of boating. The essence of
a boat is "another way to get there".

If you don't believe read Bill Tilman, CBE, DSO, MC and Bar, was
rather famous mountaineer and sailor who when asked why he took up
sailing replied, "There were a lot of mountains I wanted to climb that
were only accessible by boat... So I learned to sail one in order to
get to the mountains".

Your attitude that a sailboat is just
transportion tells me you weren't ever able to appreciate what a sailboat
really is by virtue of the fact of your self-centeredness and ungodliness
where you place yourself in the center of the universe. This arrogance is
why you failed - you failed to appreciated the beauty of the machine and the
lifestyle. You viewed it as just another way to move your sorry fat carcass
around. This is so sad.

Failed? I'd say that I succeed. After all, I got to exactly where I
was going.


Willie-boy you go on about the romance and mystique of boating just
exactly like all the other wannabes. Try talking to someone who has
actually sailed to somewhere and you will be surprised at the lack of
romance there is. Just load the boat, check the mail, and go.


Perhaps you are to be pitied because you are too staid to ever appreciate
the beauty, romance, utility and connectedness of sailing. But, now all our
readers understand why you failed - one cannot master something one does not
understand.

You have a rather overheated imagination. Try talking to anyone who
has actually sailed somewhere and see whether your ethereal and
romantic outlook finds a soul mate.

The usual "sea story"of a real sailor after a trip is more like, "The
damned autopilot broke down about a week out and we had to hand steer
all the way". Or, perhaps, "We didn't have a breath of wind and had to
motor for two weeks". Another I heard was, "a damned storm hit us
about 200 miles north of Chagos and we layed a-hull for three days
before we could get going".

I have never heard a real sailor rabbit on about romance,
connectedness or any of the other platitudes heard from the romantic
dreamers who's maritime experience is measured by how many books
they've read.



Wilbur Hubbard


Cheers,

Bruce