On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 03:07:26 +0000 (UTC), JohnF
wrote:

Bob wrote:
I buy organic Fuji apples all the time for $1.29 / lb hell
even our PNW grocery store Fred Meyer (piggle wiggle for you
coonasses) has an Organic section and sells great juicy organic cali
oranges for $0.88/lb That seems pretty cheep for an orange that
doesn?t have a bunch of nerve agents in its juice.

There was a semi-recent news story (several months ago, I can't
quickly find a link for you) about a woman who, concerned about
feeding her baby all those "nerve agents" you mentioned, was careful
to only buy certified organic apple juice. Unfortunately (you knew
there was a "but", right?), one batch hadn't been pasteurized properly,
and the kid died from botulism (or something like that -- I can't
quite recall).
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for organic, but the world's not a
perfect place, and there's no perfect way to live in it. In this
case, some of those smaller organic farmers just didn't have the
resources to invest in all the best equipment that the larger
non-organic conglomerates can buy -- kind of analogous to the whole
cheap air compressor thing that started this thread.

yes, drinking coffee from a cup with lead in the glaze may
not kill you today My concern is 50 years of exposure or having the
most susceptible, our children getting their nervous system re-wired
because of metals in their diet. Do we still have lead potable water
supply pipes?

Interesting data point about that: in classical Rome, most people
lived maybe 30 or so years, but those that didn't die that (to us)
young usually dropped dead around 50 or so. Everybody just figured
that was old age. But we know better. So what killed them all off?
A lifetime drinking out of lead goblets. But that was so ubiquitous
in their society that nobody ever figured it out at the time.
Makes you wonder what we might be doing now that's killing us off
earlier than necessary, but that's so commonplace that nobody
notices the correlation.

Jumping right in... there are sooo many things in the environment that
we barely know about. It might be too complicated to figure out which
ones are doing damage... not to mention all the toxic things we do
know about. I guess all you can do is try to limit your exposure to
the things you do know about. What's the other choice... live under a
rock and quake in fear?

Jumping right in... there are sooo many things in the environment that
we barely know about.

So true!


It might be too complicated to figure out which
ones are doing damage...

COmplicated yes, butthat is why EPA DEQ USDA FDA were originally
created. Unfortunatly when a republican admisitration get in power
the first thing they do is cut the budget to thoes who are mandated to
protect us.

I guess all you can do is try to limit your exposure to
the things you do know about.

Spoken like a true conservative! Absolutly true ! !

What's the other choice... live under a
rock and quake in fear?-

I belive many here would simply follow what the agri-chem lobbiest
want everyone to belive; our food is safe. Now is when the REpublicans
will chime in and accuse me as being a total wacko, all our food is
safe because some company made it, and im anti american because I want
an orange that doesnt contain a measuarble amounts of nerve agents.

Oh, ya what is one of the other typical chant "... you ld have to eat
a 50 tons of oranges to get any ill effect from the herbicide/
pesticide present in a sunkist brand orange..."

My reply is I read the specs on most things I use..... especially if I
am putting inside me.

bob

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 17:04:46 -0800 (PST), Bob
wrote:

Jumping right in... there are sooo many things in the environment that
we barely know about.

So true!


It might be too complicated to figure out which
ones are doing damage...

COmplicated yes, butthat is why EPA DEQ USDA FDA were originally
created. Unfortunatly when a republican admisitration get in power
the first thing they do is cut the budget to thoes who are mandated to
protect us.

Seems like we've got all these agencies doing things? But, none of
them seem to do anything useful about this kind of pollution. I don't
trust them much. Maybe it should be more of a personal decision. I
mean you have to know that eating trash food isn't good for you,
right? So, if you choose to do that....

I guess all you can do is try to limit your exposure to
the things you do know about.

Spoken like a true conservative! Absolutly true ! !

Well, yeah. I just don't think we need to regulate everything. There's
got to be some personal responsibility.

What's the other choice... live under a
rock and quake in fear?-

I belive many here would simply follow what the agri-chem lobbiest
want everyone to belive; our food is safe. Now is when the REpublicans
will chime in and accuse me as being a total wacko, all our food is
safe because some company made it, and im anti american because I want
an orange that doesnt contain a measuarble amounts of nerve agents.

I don't think you can blame Republicans for all of it. I don't think
much has changed as far as whether or not antibiotics go into our meat
or milk. What Democrat decided to crack down on that?

Oh, ya what is one of the other typical chant "... you ld have to eat
a 50 tons of oranges to get any ill effect from the herbicide/
pesticide present in a sunkist brand orange..."

My reply is I read the specs on most things I use..... especially if I
am putting inside me.

bob


Seems like that it's probably true about the 50 tons or whatever, but
again, why not just buy from a place you trust. We do have a choice.

Jessica B wrote:
JohnF wrote:

Bob wrote:
I buy organic Fuji apples all the time for $1.29 / lb hell
even our PNW grocery store Fred Meyer (piggle wiggle for you
coonasses) has an Organic section and sells great juicy organic cali
oranges for $0.88/lb That seems pretty cheep for an orange that
doesn?t have a bunch of nerve agents in its juice.

There was a semi-recent news story (several months ago, I can't
quickly find a link for you) about a woman who, concerned about
feeding her baby all those "nerve agents" you mentioned, was careful
to only buy certified organic apple juice. Unfortunately (you knew
there was a "but", right?), one batch hadn't been pasteurized properly,
and the kid died from botulism (or something like that -- I can't
quite recall).
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for organic, but the world's not a
perfect place, and there's no perfect way to live in it. In this
case, some of those smaller organic farmers just didn't have the
resources to invest in all the best equipment that the larger
non-organic conglomerates can buy -- kind of analogous to the whole
cheap air compressor thing that started this thread.

yes, drinking coffee from a cup with lead in the glaze may
not kill you today My concern is 50 years of exposure or having the
most susceptible, our children getting their nervous system re-wired
because of metals in their diet. Do we still have lead potable water
supply pipes?

Interesting data point about that: in classical Rome, most people
lived maybe 30 or so years, but those that didn't die that (to us)
young usually dropped dead around 50 or so. Everybody just figured
that was old age. But we know better. So what killed them all off?
A lifetime drinking out of lead goblets. But that was so ubiquitous
in their society that nobody ever figured it out at the time.
Makes you wonder what we might be doing now that's killing us off
earlier than necessary, but that's so commonplace that nobody
notices the correlation.

Jumping right in... there are sooo many things in the environment that
we barely know about. It might be too complicated to figure out which
ones are doing damage... not to mention all the toxic things we do
know about. I guess all you can do is try to limit your exposure to
the things you do know about.

I suppose, but probably within moderation. Another fact, that I
recall from somewhere but am failing to google quickly, is that the
toxins in our current environment (in particular, the non-water-soluble
ones that accumulate in our bodies rather than being excreted)
would kill us all after about 200 years. But since we don't live that
long anyway, not a problem. However, should medical science extend our
lifespan to, say, 250 years, then the fda would have to rethink its
standards something fierce. So, in other words, you're being slowly
poisoned, pretty much no matter what you do. But lots of other stuff
is killing you, too. So the practical approach is to put them all in
order, and then just worry about the things you'll likely die from
first. Overweight and smoking pretty much top the list, with toxins
usually way down the list for most people (though ahead of asteroid
impacts and alien abductions, etc).
Likewise with those inexpensive air compressors, I'd think.
If the cheap plastic hosing, gaskets, etc, are outgassing, say,
lots of hydrogen cyanide, you probably ought to worry about it
immediately, if not sooner. But if it's more benign toxins, and you
only dive occasionally for bottom cleaning, prop unfouling, zincs,
whatever, then the tank, even with those toxins, might be safer
than snorkeling. Tough calculation.

What's the other choice... live under a rock and quake in fear?
Make sure to check the chemical composition of the rock, first.
--
John Forkosh ( mailto: where j=john and f=forkosh )

On Mon, 3 Jan 2011 20:37:53 +0000 (UTC), JohnF
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
JohnF wrote:

Bob wrote:
I buy organic Fuji apples all the time for $1.29 / lb hell
even our PNW grocery store Fred Meyer (piggle wiggle for you
coonasses) has an Organic section and sells great juicy organic cali
oranges for $0.88/lb That seems pretty cheep for an orange that
doesn?t have a bunch of nerve agents in its juice.

There was a semi-recent news story (several months ago, I can't
quickly find a link for you) about a woman who, concerned about
feeding her baby all those "nerve agents" you mentioned, was careful
to only buy certified organic apple juice. Unfortunately (you knew
there was a "but", right?), one batch hadn't been pasteurized properly,
and the kid died from botulism (or something like that -- I can't
quite recall).
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for organic, but the world's not a
perfect place, and there's no perfect way to live in it. In this
case, some of those smaller organic farmers just didn't have the
resources to invest in all the best equipment that the larger
non-organic conglomerates can buy -- kind of analogous to the whole
cheap air compressor thing that started this thread.

yes, drinking coffee from a cup with lead in the glaze may
not kill you today My concern is 50 years of exposure or having the
most susceptible, our children getting their nervous system re-wired
because of metals in their diet. Do we still have lead potable water
supply pipes?

Interesting data point about that: in classical Rome, most people
lived maybe 30 or so years, but those that didn't die that (to us)
young usually dropped dead around 50 or so. Everybody just figured
that was old age. But we know better. So what killed them all off?
A lifetime drinking out of lead goblets. But that was so ubiquitous
in their society that nobody ever figured it out at the time.
Makes you wonder what we might be doing now that's killing us off
earlier than necessary, but that's so commonplace that nobody
notices the correlation.

Jumping right in... there are sooo many things in the environment that
we barely know about. It might be too complicated to figure out which
ones are doing damage... not to mention all the toxic things we do
know about. I guess all you can do is try to limit your exposure to
the things you do know about.

I suppose, but probably within moderation. Another fact, that I
recall from somewhere but am failing to google quickly, is that the
toxins in our current environment (in particular, the non-water-soluble
ones that accumulate in our bodies rather than being excreted)
would kill us all after about 200 years. But since we don't live that
long anyway, not a problem. However, should medical science extend our
lifespan to, say, 250 years, then the fda would have to rethink its
standards something fierce. So, in other words, you're being slowly
poisoned, pretty much no matter what you do. But lots of other stuff
is killing you, too. So the practical approach is to put them all in
order, and then just worry about the things you'll likely die from
first. Overweight and smoking pretty much top the list, with toxins
usually way down the list for most people (though ahead of asteroid
impacts and alien abductions, etc).
Likewise with those inexpensive air compressors, I'd think.
If the cheap plastic hosing, gaskets, etc, are outgassing, say,
lots of hydrogen cyanide, you probably ought to worry about it
immediately, if not sooner. But if it's more benign toxins, and you
only dive occasionally for bottom cleaning, prop unfouling, zincs,
whatever, then the tank, even with those toxins, might be safer
than snorkeling. Tough calculation.

What's the other choice... live under a rock and quake in fear?
Make sure to check the chemical composition of the rock, first.

I think the most likely cause of my demise will be from someone else's
car in the LA basin. Fricken lunatics. I almost got crunched this
morning.