On Nov 22, 5:10*am, Bruce wrote:
On Sun, 21 Nov 2010 22:49:30 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

One of the problems using the engine propeller to turn an alternator
is that the prop pitch is all wrong.

By 90 degrees, in fact.

It works though, witness the bloke I mentioned that had an alternator
belted to the propshaft.... just that it doesn't produce much power.

Cheers,

Brice

Why not use stone wheels too Bruce, since you are talking about stone
age tech? Using a belt drive and a big alternator is not going to
capture much energy anything.

Now directly couple a motor/generator that consists of a stator
winding employing a high pole count configuration, which allows for
high copper utilization (minimizing energy loss and cost), and a
hollow rotor upon which powerful rare earth permanent magnets are
mounted on the outer circumference coupled to a variable pitch prop
system and you can pump out some serious energy. The city buses that
are using these moters claim they capture 97% of the kinetic energy
developed while stopping.

You are comparing apples to oranges.

Joe

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:21:00 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

Now directly couple a motor/generator that consists of a stator
winding employing a high pole count configuration, which allows for
high copper utilization (minimizing energy loss and cost), and a
hollow rotor upon which powerful rare earth permanent magnets are
mounted on the outer circumference coupled to a variable pitch prop
system and you can pump out some serious energy. The city buses that
are using these moters claim they capture 97% of the kinetic energy
developed while stopping.

Regardless of the capture mechanism, even at 100% efficiency, there is
only so much energy in a moving column of water and it is not a big
number when you are moving at sailing speeds. Now if you could get
that same column of water rolling down the side of a 1,000 ft
mountain, that's a whole different story. :-)

On Nov 22, 9:40*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:21:00 -0800 (PST), Joe

wrote:
Now directly couple a motor/generator that consists of a stator
winding employing a high pole count configuration, which allows for
high copper utilization (minimizing energy loss and cost), and a
hollow rotor upon which powerful rare earth permanent magnets are
mounted on the outer circumference coupled to a variable pitch prop
system and you can pump out some serious energy. The city buses that
are using these moters claim they capture 97% of the kinetic energy
developed while stopping.

Regardless of the capture mechanism, even at 100% efficiency, there is
only so much energy in a moving column of water and it is not a big
number when you are moving at sailing speeds. *Now if you could get
that same column of water rolling down the side of a 1,000 ft
mountain, that's a whole different story. * :-)

I'm going to have to disagree with you Wayne. The amount of energy
coming off a shaft at sailing speed can be huge. The drag can be
offset by canvas with ease on a non-planing hull. If you capture 1 rpm
of energy for every 4 rmp's generated by sail, and can store that
energy you have a system that can work.

Now if a bus can capture 97% of the kinetic energy by stopping then
why can't a prop do the same ?
About the smallest CVP system available is in the high 30's low 40"
diameter.
You ever chain down a shaft to a 40" prop? You better have some strong
chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSnH6DFA94 Not quite a 1000 ft drop
but plenty of power to harness.

Joe

On Nov 22, 10:54*am, Joe wrote:
On Nov 22, 9:40*am, Wayne.B wrote:





On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:21:00 -0800 (PST), Joe

wrote:
Now directly couple a motor/generator that consists of a stator
winding employing a high pole count configuration, which allows for
high copper utilization (minimizing energy loss and cost), and a
hollow rotor upon which powerful rare earth permanent magnets are
mounted on the outer circumference coupled to a variable pitch prop
system and you can pump out some serious energy. The city buses that
are using these moters claim they capture 97% of the kinetic energy
developed while stopping.

Regardless of the capture mechanism, even at 100% efficiency, there is
only so much energy in a moving column of water and it is not a big
number when you are moving at sailing speeds. *Now if you could get
that same column of water rolling down the side of a 1,000 ft
mountain, that's a whole different story. * :-)

* I'm going to have to disagree with you Wayne. The amount of energy
coming off a shaft at sailing speed can be huge. The drag can be
offset by canvas with ease on a non-planing hull. If you capture 1 rpm
of energy for every 4 rmp's generated by sail, and can store that
energy you have a system that can work.

*Now if a bus can capture 97% of the kinetic energy by stopping then
why can't a prop do the same ?
About the smallest CVP system available is in the high 30's low 40"
diameter.
You ever chain down a shaft to a 40" prop? You better have some strong
chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSnH6DFA94*Not quite a 1000 ft drop
but plenty of power to harness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBWqy...ist=QL&index=1

Even better view....I like the "Steel Rat" name.

Joe

Joe- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:54:03 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Nov 22, 9:40*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:21:00 -0800 (PST), Joe

wrote:
Now directly couple a motor/generator that consists of a stator
winding employing a high pole count configuration, which allows for
high copper utilization (minimizing energy loss and cost), and a
hollow rotor upon which powerful rare earth permanent magnets are
mounted on the outer circumference coupled to a variable pitch prop
system and you can pump out some serious energy. The city buses that
are using these moters claim they capture 97% of the kinetic energy
developed while stopping.

Regardless of the capture mechanism, even at 100% efficiency, there is
only so much energy in a moving column of water and it is not a big
number when you are moving at sailing speeds. *Now if you could get
that same column of water rolling down the side of a 1,000 ft
mountain, that's a whole different story. * :-)

I'm going to have to disagree with you Wayne. The amount of energy
coming off a shaft at sailing speed can be huge. The drag can be
offset by canvas with ease on a non-planing hull. If you capture 1 rpm
of energy for every 4 rmp's generated by sail, and can store that
energy you have a system that can work.

Now if a bus can capture 97% of the kinetic energy by stopping then
why can't a prop do the same ?
About the smallest CVP system available is in the high 30's low 40"
diameter.
You ever chain down a shaft to a 40" prop? You better have some strong
chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSnH6DFA94 Not quite a 1000 ft drop
but plenty of power to harness.

Joe

Are you normally obtuse, or have you always gotten your technical
information from the movies?

The Youtube show you recommended states that it is a 200 ton sailing
boat. While your reference doesn't indicate the length of the vessel
but seems to say that they were doing 9 knots.

I found a reference to another 200 ton sailing vessel on the net - it
was 138 feet long. The hull speed for a 138 ft. vessel is about 16
knots so your reference was sailing at abut half hull speed (56%
actually). Hardly impressive.

And, by the bay, how many sailing yachts have you been on that were
fitted with a 40 inch propeller?

Cheers,

Brice

On Nov 22, 6:39*pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 08:54:03 -0800 (PST), Joe





wrote:
On Nov 22, 9:40 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 07:21:00 -0800 (PST), Joe

wrote:
Now directly couple a motor/generator that consists of a stator
winding employing a high pole count configuration, which allows for
high copper utilization (minimizing energy loss and cost), and a
hollow rotor upon which powerful rare earth permanent magnets are
mounted on the outer circumference coupled to a variable pitch prop
system and you can pump out some serious energy. The city buses that
are using these moters claim they capture 97% of the kinetic energy
developed while stopping.

Regardless of the capture mechanism, even at 100% efficiency, there is
only so much energy in a moving column of water and it is not a big
number when you are moving at sailing speeds. Now if you could get
that same column of water rolling down the side of a 1,000 ft
mountain, that's a whole different story. :-)

*I'm going to have to disagree with you Wayne. The amount of energy
coming off a shaft at sailing speed can be huge. The drag can be
offset by canvas with ease on a non-planing hull. If you capture 1 rpm
of energy for every 4 rmp's generated by sail, and can store that
energy you have a system that can work.

Now if a bus can capture 97% of the kinetic energy by stopping then
why can't a prop do the same ?
About the smallest CVP system available is in the high 30's low 40"
diameter.
You ever chain down a shaft to a 40" prop? You better have some strong
chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSnH6DFA94*Not quite a 1000 ft drop
but plenty of power to harness.

Joe

Are you normally obtuse, or have you always gotten your technical
information from the movies?

The Youtube show you recommended states that it is a 200 ton sailing
boat. While your reference doesn't indicate the length of the vessel
but seems to say that they were doing 9 knots.

I found a reference to another 200 ton sailing vessel on the net - it
was 138 feet long. The hull speed for a 138 ft. vessel is about 16
knots so your reference was sailing at abut half hull speed (56%
actually). Hardly impressive.


Hardly, but enough to spin a big prop without much concern of the drag
the prop makes..

And, by the bay, how many sailing yachts have you been on that were
fitted with a 40 inch propeller?

None by the bay;0). Never been on with a CVP propellor, or cort
nozzles either. Never been on one with a bow thruster , or forward
looking sonar, or a kite drive either. Never been on a hydrofoil
bigger than a rave...but there are ones out there.

Have been on a hundred boats with 25-72 inch props and had to chain
them down many times to prevent damage to the gears. As I said the
power is massive and you had better have heavy chains and binders.

Joe


Cheers,

Brice- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:49:24 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

Have been on a hundred boats with 25-72 inch props and had to chain
them down many times to prevent damage to the gears. As I said the
power is massive and you had better have heavy chains and binders.

Joe, my trawler has 30 inch, 4 bladed props on 2 1/2 shafts. Can you
suggest a procedure for safely binding/chaining a shaft while
underway? I was thinking about something like 3 or 4 loops of 1 inch
line terminating in a block and tackle lead to an overhead beam.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:37:09 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:49:24 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

Have been on a hundred boats with 25-72 inch props and had to chain
them down many times to prevent damage to the gears. As I said the
power is massive and you had better have heavy chains and binders.

Joe, my trawler has 30 inch, 4 bladed props on 2 1/2 shafts. Can you
suggest a procedure for safely binding/chaining a shaft while
underway? I was thinking about something like 3 or 4 loops of 1 inch
line terminating in a block and tackle lead to an overhead beam.

If you are serious the usual method is to install a shaft brake.
Mechanical or hydraulic disk brake.

Cheers,

Brice

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:37:09 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:49:24 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

Have been on a hundred boats with 25-72 inch props and had to chain
them down many times to prevent damage to the gears. As I said the
power is massive and you had better have heavy chains and binders.

Joe, my trawler has 30 inch, 4 bladed props on 2 1/2 shafts. Can you
suggest a procedure for safely binding/chaining a shaft while
underway? I was thinking about something like 3 or 4 loops of 1 inch
line terminating in a block and tackle lead to an overhead beam.


Out of curiosity, why chain the shaft? Are you running on one engine?
And, if you are how is it working for you. I tried it and it simply
dropped the speed by about half :-(

Cheers,

Brice

On Nov 22, 8:37*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:49:24 -0800 (PST), Joe

wrote:
Have been on a hundred boats with 25-72 inch props and had to chain
them down many times to prevent damage to the gears. As I said the
power is massive and you had better have heavy chains and binders.

Joe, my trawler has 30 inch, 4 bladed props on 2 1/2 shafts. * Can you
suggest a procedure for safely binding/chaining a shaft while
underway? * I was thinking about something like 3 or 4 loops of 1 inch
line terminating in a block and tackle lead to an overhead beam.

While underway...No

Stopped you can wrap it 7 times and bind it with a heavy chain and a
proper binder. Just be careful to bind both ways

I would look for something else besides the overhead beam, like a
stringer.
We always had big steel or aluminum T stringers on both sides of the
gear boxes and shaft tubes.

Without seeing the set-up it's hard to give any advice.
Do you have a picture on the web anywhere?

Joe