On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 23:46:47 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

Ya got to watch this one...........

Fat ass on a cockpit easy boy dies. Looks like excessive BMI and
failure to maintaine deck fasteners. My guess is crevis corrosion at
head of SS machine screw.... nah, they used ss wood screws and they
just pooped out.


http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Man-...104711794.html


Did you read the article that you quote?

The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.


The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.


Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:



Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.


The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.


Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

Well bravo, you stand a watch" and you stand up all the time. I assume
that is a standard naval watch - 4 hours. Now try it for a day and a
night as some cruising people do.

But the whole argument is ridicules - a competent person ensures that
he can see what needs to be seen and if one can do that sitting down
then it is certainly sufficient, whether sitting, lying or standing.

The argument that because you need to walk about to see the waters
surrounding your vessel is necessary and therefore every helmsman must
walk around is ridicules. The helmsman of a VLCC can walk around the
bridge all he wants and still can't see the water ahead of the vessel
and a bloke in a small yacht may be able to see it all lying on his
back.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Oct 14, 4:18*am, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:







Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.

The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.

Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

Well bravo, you stand a watch" and you stand up all the time. I assume
that is a standard naval watch - 4 hours. Now try it for a day and a
night as some cruising people do.

But the whole argument is ridicules - a competent person ensures that
he can see what needs to be seen and if one can do that sitting down
then it is certainly sufficient, whether sitting, lying or standing.

*The argument that because you need to walk about to see the waters
surrounding your vessel is necessary and therefore every helmsman must
walk around is ridicules. The helmsman of a VLCC can walk around the
bridge all he wants and still can't see the water ahead of the vessel
and a bloke in a small yacht may be able to see it all lying on his
back.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



Hello Bruce:

After reading your posts for a few years I believe you are a
reasonable, measured, and bright person. I believe that overboard
death could have easily been avoided simply by eliminating any one of
the several deficiencies that contributed to his death.

Do you agree his death was preventable?
If so, other than wearing a PFD what else would be necessary to avoid
death?

BOb
(on vacation)

On Thu, 14 Oct 2010 10:33:36 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Oct 14, 4:18*am, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 19:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:







Did you read the article that you quote?

I read that article and a few others and also watched the KGW video.

The boat was a 65 ft. sail boat. Have you ever been on a 65 ft. sail
boat?

Do you mean, have I ever been on a sailing yacht 20M?
The ansewer is yes. Actually several. I fact I plan on bing on an 80
foot sailboat as a tourist in a few days. What can I say, I enjoy
traditional sailing craft.

Where do you think that the Helmsman positions himself while steering
the boat?

Close to the helm.

Do you really think that he stands to the wheel clad in oilskins and
sou-wester?

One of the things that I found repulsive while working as an AB on
those OSV/DSV was the slothenly way those fat coonasses put there
obease ass on the captain chair and sat there while underway.

I did what every one should do I STOOD WATCH. The captain finally
ordered me to sit in the chair because all my walking around made him
nervous when he was on the bridge and I was driving the boat.
Personally I like to walk around. It keeps me awake and alert! I see
more that way and am not prone to doze off. Not a good Idea to run
into a rig or another boat as an AB with the captain in the mess.

Once again, you don't know what you are talking about.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Once again your luberly and lacadasical aproach to seamanship has
dimmed your ability to see a travisty when it happend. The operator
made several errors on serveral levels and now his kids will live with
that tragity for decades to come.

Look, if you want an easyboy on your boat go for it. Hell put a sofa
in the cockpit for all I care. When I Stand Watch, I stand AND watch!
But yes I also sit in the cockpit. Why???? cause there aint no
bulkheads to keep me from falling overboard if I get knocked out of my
lazyboy.

Bob

Well bravo, you stand a watch" and you stand up all the time. I assume
that is a standard naval watch - 4 hours. Now try it for a day and a
night as some cruising people do.

But the whole argument is ridicules - a competent person ensures that
he can see what needs to be seen and if one can do that sitting down
then it is certainly sufficient, whether sitting, lying or standing.

*The argument that because you need to walk about to see the waters
surrounding your vessel is necessary and therefore every helmsman must
walk around is ridicules. The helmsman of a VLCC can walk around the
bridge all he wants and still can't see the water ahead of the vessel
and a bloke in a small yacht may be able to see it all lying on his
back.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



Hello Bruce:

After reading your posts for a few years I believe you are a
reasonable, measured, and bright person. I believe that overboard
death could have easily been avoided simply by eliminating any one of
the several deficiencies that contributed to his death.

Do you agree his death was preventable?
If so, other than wearing a PFD what else would be necessary to avoid
death?

BOb
(on vacation)

Of course it could have been prevented. Simply wear a harness and stay
clipped on all the time.

But like many other endeavors, sailing is really a dangerous thing to
do, compared to sitting on a rock, on dry land. The question is how
dangerous do you want it to be.

Sailing in the Hobart Race is, for example, far more dangerous then in
the Thailand King's Cup but they may well have more entries in the
Hobart Race; sailing round the horn is far more dangerous then going
through the canal but people still do it. "My Old Man and the Sea" is
a book about a father and son who planned and prepared for several
years to "round the horn", even built a special boat for it.

My own beliefs are that you simply cannot be 100% safe all the time,
(some people have dropped dead walking to the Supermarket) so do what
you want, be as prudent as you think reasonable, and have a good time.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

Of course it could have been prevented. Simply wear a harness and stay
clipped on all the time.

But like many other endeavors, sailing is really a dangerous thing to
do, compared to sitting on a rock, on dry land. The question is how
dangerous do you want it to be.

Sailing in the Hobart Race is, for example, far more dangerous then in
the Thailand King's Cup but they may well have more entries in the
Hobart Race; sailing round the horn is far more dangerous then going
through the canal but people still do it. "My Old Man and the Sea" is
a book about a father and son who planned and prepared for several
years to "round the horn", even built a special boat for it.

My own beliefs are that you simply cannot be 100% safe all the time,
(some people have dropped dead walking to the Supermarket) so do what
you want, be as prudent as you think reasonable, and have a good time.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I loved that book, Bruce.
Hell of a story.
even with the 10,000 mile cat...


--

Richard Lamb

BOb
(on vacation)

Of course it could have been prevented. Simply wear a harness and stay
clipped on all the time.

But like many other endeavors, sailing is really a dangerous thing to
do, compared to sitting on a rock, on dry land. The question is how
dangerous do you want it to be.

My own beliefs are that you simply cannot be 100% safe all the time,
(some people have dropped dead walking to the Supermarket) so do what
you want, be as prudent as you think reasonable, and have a good time.

Cheers,
Bruce

Can not be safe 100% of the time…….. ???????????

Other people believe differently. Several boat companies in the GOM,
drug, and other industries believe 100% of all injuries are
preventable. Its part of there HSE program. Im still not sure about
that but Im beginning to believe that there is no such thing as an
"accident" and there fore probably, yes all are preventable. I just
don’t believe in fate or a predestined future. As in, we are all
gonna dies anyway so why fret with safe equipment choice and
maintence.

Im also the person a few years ago that argued strongly that there are
no such things as “sneaker-rogue waves” Why, because they are
reasonably predictable because we know what generates those anomalous
waves. For example, there is an increased likelihood of a
significantly huge wave based on conditions X-Y&F.

Are they feared killer sneaker waves because some dolt doesn’t know
why they form?

Or are they simply really big waves one can EXPECT AND PREPARE FOR
given weather systems, current, water depth, and history of occurrence
by location….?
Is ignorance a reason to justify loss of life and accept death by
chair as our fate?

I say the guy was just another stupid **** who was more interested in
looking cool on his sail boat. He had unsafe equipment (chair) that
had no business on a boat that SMALL. I also condemned the guy for
using equipment that was not properly maintained.

In article , Bob wrote:

[snip]

Can not be safe 100% of the time??.. ???????????

No, you cannot. Unless you never get out of bed, and yet, at the same
time, ensure that someone maintains your house so that the chimney
doesn't fall on you through the roof the next time the wind blows.


Other people believe differently. Several boat companies in the GOM,
drug, and other industries believe 100% of all injuries are
preventable.

These are the people who are encouraging the "I got hurt, it must be
someone's fault, who can I blame/sue?" attitude, and they are wrong.


Im still not sure about
that but Im beginning to believe that there is no such thing as an
"accident" and there fore probably, yes all are preventable.

Maybe all are preventable, but to what lengths do you want to go to
protect yourself? Do you stop sailing incase some half-submerged
container holes your boat and sinks you? Do you stop walking in the
woods in case a branch falls on your head? Do you stop walking along the
cliffs because they are constantly eroding and may collapse without
warning?

Sure, we could blame the shipping company that lost the container, that
could easily have been carelessness, but your hitting it was an accident
that you couldn't avoid because you couldn't see it, perhaps you should
never have left the dock. Maybe all the trees should be cut down so that
there are no branches to fall on people. Maybe someone should be
employed to check all trees on a daily basis for the likelihood of
falling branches, or forests should be made forbidden places just for
our safety. With regard to the cliffs, well, they're obviously *way* too
dangerous and the public should be made to stay at least 100 yards away
at all times. Utterly ridiculous.


I just
don?t believe in fate or a predestined future.

You don't have to, you just have to accept that accidents happen. It's
not fate, it's an accident. That half submerged container could have
been missed by inches, and you would still not have known about it. It's
not fate or pre-destiny, it is the coinciding of two facts, the ones you
know about and the ones that you don't stand a chance of knowing about.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.