BOb
(on vacation)

Of course it could have been prevented. Simply wear a harness and stay
clipped on all the time.

But like many other endeavors, sailing is really a dangerous thing to
do, compared to sitting on a rock, on dry land. The question is how
dangerous do you want it to be.

My own beliefs are that you simply cannot be 100% safe all the time,
(some people have dropped dead walking to the Supermarket) so do what
you want, be as prudent as you think reasonable, and have a good time.

Cheers,
Bruce

Can not be safe 100% of the time…….. ???????????

Other people believe differently. Several boat companies in the GOM,
drug, and other industries believe 100% of all injuries are
preventable. Its part of there HSE program. Im still not sure about
that but Im beginning to believe that there is no such thing as an
"accident" and there fore probably, yes all are preventable. I just
don’t believe in fate or a predestined future. As in, we are all
gonna dies anyway so why fret with safe equipment choice and
maintence.

Im also the person a few years ago that argued strongly that there are
no such things as “sneaker-rogue waves” Why, because they are
reasonably predictable because we know what generates those anomalous
waves. For example, there is an increased likelihood of a
significantly huge wave based on conditions X-Y&F.

Are they feared killer sneaker waves because some dolt doesn’t know
why they form?

Or are they simply really big waves one can EXPECT AND PREPARE FOR
given weather systems, current, water depth, and history of occurrence
by location….?
Is ignorance a reason to justify loss of life and accept death by
chair as our fate?

I say the guy was just another stupid **** who was more interested in
looking cool on his sail boat. He had unsafe equipment (chair) that
had no business on a boat that SMALL. I also condemned the guy for
using equipment that was not properly maintained.

In article , Bob wrote:

[snip]

Can not be safe 100% of the time??.. ???????????

No, you cannot. Unless you never get out of bed, and yet, at the same
time, ensure that someone maintains your house so that the chimney
doesn't fall on you through the roof the next time the wind blows.


Other people believe differently. Several boat companies in the GOM,
drug, and other industries believe 100% of all injuries are
preventable.

These are the people who are encouraging the "I got hurt, it must be
someone's fault, who can I blame/sue?" attitude, and they are wrong.


Im still not sure about
that but Im beginning to believe that there is no such thing as an
"accident" and there fore probably, yes all are preventable.

Maybe all are preventable, but to what lengths do you want to go to
protect yourself? Do you stop sailing incase some half-submerged
container holes your boat and sinks you? Do you stop walking in the
woods in case a branch falls on your head? Do you stop walking along the
cliffs because they are constantly eroding and may collapse without
warning?

Sure, we could blame the shipping company that lost the container, that
could easily have been carelessness, but your hitting it was an accident
that you couldn't avoid because you couldn't see it, perhaps you should
never have left the dock. Maybe all the trees should be cut down so that
there are no branches to fall on people. Maybe someone should be
employed to check all trees on a daily basis for the likelihood of
falling branches, or forests should be made forbidden places just for
our safety. With regard to the cliffs, well, they're obviously *way* too
dangerous and the public should be made to stay at least 100 yards away
at all times. Utterly ridiculous.


I just
don?t believe in fate or a predestined future.

You don't have to, you just have to accept that accidents happen. It's
not fate, it's an accident. That half submerged container could have
been missed by inches, and you would still not have known about it. It's
not fate or pre-destiny, it is the coinciding of two facts, the ones you
know about and the ones that you don't stand a chance of knowing about.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:46:34 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

You don't have to, you just have to accept that accidents happen. It's
not fate, it's an accident.

There's some truth to that but it's a poor starting point for safety
awareness and prevention.

Accidents are enormously expensive and damaging for everyone concerned
so it pays to do take all reasonable precautions to prevent them.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 09:42:31 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:46:34 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

You don't have to, you just have to accept that accidents happen. It's
not fate, it's an accident.

There's some truth to that but it's a poor starting point for safety
awareness and prevention.

Accidents are enormously expensive and damaging for everyone concerned
so it pays to do take all reasonable precautions to prevent them.

When I was in the Air Force they had an aggressive safety program
(probably still do :-) with all the inspections, meetings, lectures,
and so on. and, it did eliminate most of the really stupid accidents.
But with all that there were still accidents. In fact the Safety
Manual, that all supervisors were required to know, and tested on
monthly, stated that according to the National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce


So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

I say bull **** on that. If i get struck by lightning while standing
on the pitcher's mound is that an act of God or should I have been
able to recognize lightning and seek a safer spot? How about flash
flood and yu get swept away while camping in a stream bed? How about
eating ****, never exersizing, and smoking all your life and then at
45 yo ur doctor says u have high blood preasure. Is that an act of
god?

its easy to say god did it. That makes you a totally not responsible
for anything. When two vessesl collide is one vessel always found at
fault and the other 100% free of fault?

Acts of god are a dolts way of saying, I dont want to sholder any
responsibilty. I want to be blameless. Im a childish republican who
thinks igorance is just cause for injury, death, and loss of property

bob

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce


So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

It is just a term, used in many legal documents, that indicates that
the event was inexplicable. It is an "an act of God", for example, if
a sudden storm arises and blows your barn down.

I say bull **** on that. If i get struck by lightning while standing
on the pitcher's mound is that an act of God or should I have been
able to recognize lightning and seek a safer spot? How about flash
flood and yu get swept away while camping in a stream bed? How about
eating ****, never exersizing, and smoking all your life and then at

You are driving down the road and a deer jumps out in front of you and
you wreck your car avoiding it?

45 yo ur doctor says u have high blood preasure. Is that an act of
god?

its easy to say god did it. That makes you a totally not responsible
for anything. When two vessesl collide is one vessel always found at
fault and the other 100% free of fault?

Acts of god are a dolts way of saying, I dont want to sholder any
responsibilty. I want to be blameless. Im a childish republican who
thinks igorance is just cause for injury, death, and loss of property

bob

Rather then ask a lot of irrational questions you might try googleing
the term. The Wiki has a pretty detailed explanation.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Oct 17, 5:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce

So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

It is just a term, used in many legal documents, that indicates that
the event was inexplicable. It is an "an act of God", for example, if
a sudden storm arises and blows your barn down.

Yes, I understand the definition. However Ive started to question that
archaic phrase.

If s storm arises and blows my barn I say bad on the farmer for not
maintaing a structurally sound barn. Did every other barn in that area
do the same? Probabbly not


You are driving down the road and a deer jumps out in front of you and
you wreck your car avoiding it?

Absolutly, I lived in a region of PNW where deer were as think as rats
and birds. They beded down in my side yard. I lived 4 blocks from down
in a city with population of 15000. I drove the interstate for 18
years and EVER hit a deer, saw lots, had several near misses, and knew
many other who hit deer. Why did I avoid hitting an Act of Deer God ?
I predected deer occurance and took required steps to avoid hitting
them. Nothing super natural just plane conservative and knowledgable
practices.


Rather then ask a lot of irrational questions you might try googleing
the term. The Wiki has a pretty detailed explanation.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I understand the concept I just dont belive that people have the
luxury of laming stupidy on GOD.
bob

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:45:35 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Oct 17, 5:46*pm, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

National Safety Council that
approximately 90% of all accidents were preventable - the other 10%
were acts of God.
Cheers,
Bruce

So what does, Acts of God mean exactly? That only God created the
situation and therefore nobody is responsible?

It is just a term, used in many legal documents, that indicates that
the event was inexplicable. It is an "an act of God", for example, if
a sudden storm arises and blows your barn down.

Yes, I understand the definition. However Ive started to question that
archaic phrase.

If s storm arises and blows my barn I say bad on the farmer for not
maintaing a structurally sound barn. Did every other barn in that area
do the same? Probabbly not

I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?



You are driving down the road and a deer jumps out in front of you and
you wreck your car avoiding it?

Absolutly, I lived in a region of PNW where deer were as think as rats
and birds. They beded down in my side yard. I lived 4 blocks from down
in a city with population of 15000. I drove the interstate for 18
years and EVER hit a deer, saw lots, had several near misses, and knew
many other who hit deer. Why did I avoid hitting an Act of Deer God ?
I predected deer occurance and took required steps to avoid hitting
them. Nothing super natural just plane conservative and knowledgable
practices.


Rather then ask a lot of irrational questions you might try googleing
the term. The Wiki has a pretty detailed explanation.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I understand the concept I just dont belive that people have the
luxury of laming stupidy on GOD.
bob
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?

I think you're wasting your time, Bruce. It seems Bob wants someone to
be responsible for everything; Haitian earthquakes, Icelandic volcanos,
Indian ocean tsunamis, it's *all* got to be someone's fault, Bob can't
accept that sometimes **** happens.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:08:23 +0100, Justin C
wrote:

In article , Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
I'll give you a concrete example: In 1936 or 7 my father bought some
forested acreage outside our home town with the idea of cutting some
of the timber to finance the building of a house. Along came the Great
New England Hurricane, in 1938, and blew all the trees down and as
blown down forests were all over New England the timber became nearly
worthless... so a very small house :-)

Now, this hurricane was the first major hurricane to strike the area
since 1869 and is most powerful, costliest and deadliest hurricane in
New England history.

What do you call this?

I think you're wasting your time, Bruce. It seems Bob wants someone to
be responsible for everything; Haitian earthquakes, Icelandic volcanos,
Indian ocean tsunamis, it's *all* got to be someone's fault, Bob can't
accept that sometimes **** happens.

Justin.


Yes, I realize that he is somewhat of a zealot but I just can't resist
poking holes in balloons.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)