"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
snipped some
Maybe. But planning is everything :{)) There's no significant event
(sail change, reef, anchoring etc.) which doesn't have a run-through with
the Admiral beforehand.

The Admiral isn't a very flattering name for Lydia, is it?





snippage here too

Just what, exactly, broke your boom, by the way? Certainly, a prudent
sailor would not have put themselves in the situation where force was the
cause, and any competant yachtsman would have noticed any incipient
failure due to degradation of hardware and remedied it before failure.

I was anchored in St. Augustine with a fellow single-hander who sails a
32-foot Allied SeaWind ketch. The wind was blowing half a gale out of the
northeast and we decided it would be a good day to sail to Miami just inside
the Stream current.

I was beating my way out the relatively narrow inlet, was about halfway out
the channel under working sail in very steep seas breaking on the bar and
the tack prior to the breakage the boom swung over to the other side just as
the bow slammed into a very steep sea almost stopping the boat dead in her
tracks. When the boom fetched up on the close-hauled mainsheet which is
attached to a traveler atop the coach roof the boom broke in two
goosewinging the mainsail where the aft boom bale (mid-boom sheeting) was
attached to it by four screws - two on either side. The holes for the screws
apparently weakened the boom enough in that area that it allowed it to break
there.

Now, with the GIP inside as a sleeve and with the boom bales machine screwed
into the GIP (drilled and tapped into the GIP through the aluminum) the
system is much stronger than it originally was. Replacing the boom with the
same extrusion would have been just another accident waiting to happen. This
way the boom is stronger than ever and no hardware hassles such as locating
another gooseneck and end fitting for a larger extrusion, etc. were
experienced.

Of course, I accept that another incompetant may have driven his much
larger
bow into your secured boom, forcing the break under pressure, or some
similar event not in your control. Oh, I forgot - you'd have noticed him
long before, and made sure, under admiralty law and regulation, to have
avoided such a collision, even if you were the stand-on vessel. So, it
must have been while you were away from the boat.

LOL

Unlike non-sailors, I stress my boat to the max under sail. The
single-hander on the Allied and I used to sail out of West Palm Beach
regulary for a rowdy daysail in the Gulf Stream when small craft advisories
where in effect. And we didn't motor. We sailed out and we sailed back.

Now, since you use your motor all the freaking time you might not understand
the beauty of sailing the anchor out, sailing out the inlet, sailing in a
small craft advisory most of the day in the Gulf Stream, sailing back,
sailing into the inlet and anchoring under sail. But, that is my idea of
sailing. Even the Allied captain had his motor running as a 'backup' in and
out the inlets and when anchoring but my motor was in the up position
because I know my boat handles better under balanced working sail than under
engine so what's the use of an engine when the winds are reliable small
craft advisory strength?


Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...

Just what, exactly, broke your boom, by the way? Certainly, a prudent
sailor would not have put themselves in the situation where force was the
cause, and any competant yachtsman would have noticed any incipient
failure due to degradation of hardware and remedied it before failure.

I was anchored in St. Augustine with a fellow single-hander who sails a
32-foot Allied SeaWind ketch. The wind was blowing half a gale out of the
northeast and we decided it would be a good day to sail to Miami just
inside the Stream current.

I was beating my way out the relatively narrow inlet, was about halfway
out the channel under working sail in very steep seas breaking on the bar
and the tack prior to the breakage the boom swung over to the other side
just as the bow slammed into a very steep sea almost stopping the boat
dead in her tracks. When the boom fetched up on the close-hauled mainsheet
which is attached to a traveler atop the coach roof the boom broke in two
goosewinging the mainsail where the aft boom bale (mid-boom sheeting) was
attached to it by four screws - two on either side. The holes for the
screws apparently weakened the boom enough in that area that it allowed it
to break there.

So, you're saying you don't do a regular review of your equipment to notice
weak spots, and that failure led to an equipment failure which caused you to
have to motor ignominiously back to the dock (or anchorage, or mooring,
whichever it was at the time) in "interesting" conditions...

Oh, I forgot. You sailed back. Well, of course, in such winds, the jib or
genny was plenty to drive you home, and easier to douse when you're ready to
stop.

Hm...

I'll still take your tour of the Keys...

L8R

Skip, less than a week away from being back home


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...

Just what, exactly, broke your boom, by the way? Certainly, a prudent
sailor would not have put themselves in the situation where force was
the cause, and any competant yachtsman would have noticed any incipient
failure due to degradation of hardware and remedied it before failure.

I was anchored in St. Augustine with a fellow single-hander who sails a
32-foot Allied SeaWind ketch. The wind was blowing half a gale out of the
northeast and we decided it would be a good day to sail to Miami just
inside the Stream current.

I was beating my way out the relatively narrow inlet, was about halfway
out the channel under working sail in very steep seas breaking on the bar
and the tack prior to the breakage the boom swung over to the other side
just as the bow slammed into a very steep sea almost stopping the boat
dead in her tracks. When the boom fetched up on the close-hauled
mainsheet which is attached to a traveler atop the coach roof the boom
broke in two goosewinging the mainsail where the aft boom bale (mid-boom
sheeting) was attached to it by four screws - two on either side. The
holes for the screws apparently weakened the boom enough in that area
that it allowed it to break there.

So, you're saying you don't do a regular review of your equipment to
notice weak spots, and that failure led to an equipment failure which
caused you to have to motor ignominiously back to the dock (or anchorage,
or mooring, whichever it was at the time) in "interesting" conditions...


Sorry, but I don't have a magnaflux machine on board to regularly inspect my
extrusions and standing rigging.


Oh, I forgot. You sailed back. Well, of course, in such winds, the jib or
genny was plenty to drive you home, and easier to douse when you're ready
to stop.

You got it. I simply came about and ran downwind under headsail and folded
mainsail till the first barrier island where I turned to port and anchored
under sail in the lee. No fuss no muss. I got underway the next day after
going into town to secure the necessary materials.


I'll still take your tour of the Keys...

I never said anything about a tour of the Keys. I believe I might have
mentioned showing you a real blue water cruiser and buying you a beer. I can
give you some local knowledge so maybe you can better stay off the reefs and
bars. lol


Wilbur Hubbard

Hi, Wilbur!

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...


Sorry, but I don't have a magnaflux machine on board to regularly inspect
my extrusions and standing rigging.

Of course not - nothing fancy on your bluewater cruiser!

However, I've found that a regular inspection of all attachments and
connected parts usually gives pretty fair warning of failure. It was just
such inspection that caused us to go to new standing rigging last summer. A
tink or two with a small striking instrument tells a great deal about sheets
(think of the boom surface as a sheet of aluminum) of metal, not to mention
decks and other supposedly solid surfaces. I rather expect that such effort
might have given you fair warning of your failure.

OTOH, you have a self-proclaimed greatly stoutened rig, now. What did all
that extra weight do to your heeling moment, not to mention the momentum of
the boom as it swings? How long are those GIPs?

You got it. I simply came about and ran downwind under headsail and folded
mainsail till the first barrier island where I turned to port and anchored
under sail in the lee. No fuss no muss. I got underway the next day after
going into town to secure the necessary materials.

Did you swim, or do you have a dink aboard?

I never said anything about a tour of the Keys. I believe I might have
mentioned showing you a real blue water cruiser and buying you a beer. I
can give you some local knowledge so maybe you can better stay off the
reefs and bars. lol

The only bars I make it a point to stay off are the ones which are noisy and
generate mostly alcohol sales :{))

That said, Navionics promises that they have much updated charts soon to
arrive for our plotter, so perhaps their multiple uncharted reefs and shoals
in the Bahamas might now be shown, and the FL area better (though I've heard
from other cruisers that the Navionics US charts are spot-on).

That said, another cruising buddy just posted in a mailing list about his
unintentional careening off Sandy Hook in NJ, on a sand bar which wasn't
there in the most recent update to that area's charts, so I understand that
shifting sand is always a crap shoot, and CURRENT (like within the last
couple of days) local knowledge always beats a chart of unknown
provenance...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts."

(Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah)



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:33:45 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

That said, another cruising buddy just posted in a mailing list about his
unintentional careening off Sandy Hook in NJ, on a sand bar which wasn't
there in the most recent update to that area's charts

That area of Sandy Hook has always been dangerous and the chart
usually says something about "shoaling reported". My guess is that
he was trying to maneuver in close for a better look at the clothing
optional beach.

"Flying Pig" wrote in news:i2a1pb$i14$1
@adenine.netfront.net:

Skip, less than a week away from being back home


Skip, are you aboard the boat in the middle of the tropical storm?

--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Flying Pig" wrote in news:i2a1pb$i14$1
@adenine.netfront.net:

Skip, are you aboard the boat in the middle of the tropical storm?


No, we're ashore, returning on Wednesday night. The boat's up a canal
system in Leisure Lee, just south of Treasure Island. We've been watching
this (and anything else of potential interest) closely during our time
ashore, of course.

From the most recent tropical update:

THE TROPICAL STORM WARNING FOR THE CENTRAL BAHAMAS HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED.

Thanks for asking. The worst local forecast had high 20s ending today,
going back to mid-teens/low 20s in the next couple of days, and then into
low double digits leading to mid single-digit breezes by a week from now.

Meanwhile, Lydia's in Charleston, shopping for wedding stuff...

L8R

Skip
--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts."

(Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah)



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"Flying Pig" wrote in news:i2c8g7$25ju$1
@adenine.netfront.net:

Meanwhile, Lydia's in Charleston, shopping for wedding stuff...



Hey! We appreciate bringing any Yankee money you can spare and spending it
in our stores.

Thanks!



--
iPhone 4 is to cellular technology what the Titanic is to cruise ships.

Larry

"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:43:44 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Now, with the GIP inside as a sleeve and with the boom bales machine
screwed
into the GIP (drilled and tapped into the GIP through the aluminum) the
system is much stronger than it originally was. Replacing the boom with
the
same extrusion would have been just another accident waiting to happen.
This
way the boom is stronger than ever and no hardware hassles such as
locating
another gooseneck and end fitting for a larger extrusion, etc. were
experienced.

You're such a freakin' hammer mechanic.


Simply not so! Like, for example, the aluminum boom extrusion in cross
section is egg shaped. Now how does one fill, strengthen and support an
egg-shaped cross section with a round pipe? Answer: One cannot. So what does
one do? One uses three galvanized pipes. One large one to fit the round end
of the egg shape and two smaller pipes to fit the pointed spaces that
remain. One chooses sizes that fit snugly but don't have to be hammered
home. That's not hammer mechanicing; that's engineering. The three pipes
where coated with slippery silicone rubber sealant before being slid home.


You have your pee-pee size little boat with a duct taped refridgerator,
etc and pretend to be a sailor.

Electrical tape, inch wide professional quality electrical tape! Again, the
refrigerator is repaired better than new. It took the original aluminum
tubing of the evaporator four years to corrode and develop pinholes whereby
the refrigerant leaked out. Now, with the tightly wrapped tubing completedly
sealed from the elements not only are the pinholes stopped from leaking but
further corrosion is also stopped.

Successful sailors are clever, enterprising and ingenious. We think out of
the box and never believe any lubberly ideas - ideas like if the
refrigerator breaks then throw it away and buy a new one. That's a workable
solution for lubberly dummies who have more money than brains but for we
frugal sailors who enjoy using our hands and brains, the better way to go is
to fix things and fix them better than they were to begin with.


I must admit you can be amusing once in a great while.

It's quite revealing as to the lubberly thought process when one of them
confuses initiative, creativity and enterprise with humor.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 19:15:11 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"WaIIy" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:43:44 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Now, with the GIP inside as a sleeve and with the boom bales machine
screwed
into the GIP (drilled and tapped into the GIP through the aluminum) the
system is much stronger than it originally was. Replacing the boom with
the
same extrusion would have been just another accident waiting to happen.
This
way the boom is stronger than ever and no hardware hassles such as
locating
another gooseneck and end fitting for a larger extrusion, etc. were
experienced.

You're such a freakin' hammer mechanic.


Simply not so! Like, for example, the aluminum boom extrusion in cross
section is egg shaped. Now how does one fill, strengthen and support an
egg-shaped cross section with a round pipe? Answer: One cannot. So what does
one do? One uses three galvanized pipes. One large one to fit the round end
of the egg shape and two smaller pipes to fit the pointed spaces that
remain. One chooses sizes that fit snugly but don't have to be hammered
home. That's not hammer mechanicing; that's engineering. The three pipes
where coated with slippery silicone rubber sealant before being slid home.

You are correct - it is not "hammer mechanicing" (whatever that is) it
is called, in the trade, "Shade Tree Engineering" and is carried out
by people without a clue as to what they are doing.

You seem to be saying that in order to attach a fitting to an aluminum
boom that, somehow, the boom must be reinforced with internal tubes -
three in your case. Strange that the millions of sail boats presently
on the water all don't have three joints of water pipe stuffed in the
boom. In fact the vast majority have no reinforcement in the boom,
just properly designed fittings bolted to the boom.

If you want some added evidence that aluminum beams do not require
reinforcement with water pipe you might look at the aviation industry.
In the twenty-some years I worked on aircraft I never saw a single
spar or beam with a galvanized pipe reinforcement, and I worked on
some of the more advanced aircraft of that period.


You have your pee-pee size little boat with a duct taped refridgerator,
etc and pretend to be a sailor.

Electrical tape, inch wide professional quality electrical tape! Again, the
refrigerator is repaired better than new. It took the original aluminum
tubing of the evaporator four years to corrode and develop pinholes whereby
the refrigerant leaked out. Now, with the tightly wrapped tubing completedly
sealed from the elements not only are the pinholes stopped from leaking but
further corrosion is also stopped.

Strange... I had a fridge in my sail boat. Put it in about 15 years
ago and, as of the time I sold the boat, a month ago, never had to
service or top up the refrigerant.

Obviously you had a **** poor installation (probably using galvanized
water pipe) that caused the corrosion.

Successful sailors are clever, enterprising and ingenious. We think out of
the box and never believe any lubberly ideas - ideas like if the
refrigerator breaks then throw it away and buy a new one. That's a workable
solution for lubberly dummies who have more money than brains but for we
frugal sailors who enjoy using our hands and brains, the better way to go is
to fix things and fix them better than they were to begin with.

You might be using your hands but the other part of your claim is
highly questionable, or at least not demonstrated to date.

I must admit you can be amusing once in a great while.

It's quite revealing as to the lubberly thought process when one of them
confuses initiative, creativity and enterprise with humor.


Wilbur Hubbard


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)