Foley Engines responds to the BBB - a followup to a post of about a month
ago titled "Dr. Diesel, Foley Engines, and me..." and subsequent thread
expansion which included reference to the Better Business Bureau...

As I was under sail and out of internet communication, I didn't see this
until just recently...

For those interested in seeing any other stuff which may appear, you can go
to the link in the BBB - click on the "more" for expansion of any section:
http://central-westernma.app.bbb.org...24611/c/c98bbd...

This response from Foley was sent to the BBB on 4-1 (appropriately, April
Fool's Day).

Contact Name and Title: Philip George, Service Mg
Contact Phone: 508-753-2979
Contact Email:
Dear Sir/Ms.,

We sold Mr. Gundlach a set of fuel injectors for his Perkins Marine engine.
The transaction was quite simple. Mr. Gundlach called to place an order with
us. We took his order in good faith. The parts he purchased were
remanufactured and sold exchange (the old parts have to be sent back to us).
The old injectors came back and we shipped a set of Factory Remanufactured
injectors out to Mr. Gundlach. In the interim, Mr. Gundlach says he left a
very small fitting on his old injectors. By the time this was brought to our
attention Mr. Gundlach's old injectors had been processed along with the
hundreds of other injectors we process every week. We could not entertain
Mr. Gundlach's request for our people to "dig" through approximately 3000
injectors cores to look for these fittings. At that time we advised him to
simply go to his local Perkins dealer and obtain the replacement fittings
that he had said he had sent to us. The total cost for these parts should
not have exceeded $15. We can not take responsibility for Mr. Gundlach's
decision to remove or nor remove these fittings from his old injectors. For
all of the above reasons we unable to offer Mr. Gundlach any money for his
mistake.

Furthermore, Mr. Gundlach has a track record of writing long winded
complaints about issues with little or no merit. We are getting phone calls
from past customers in the caribbean telling us that Mr. Gundlach is posting
negative comments about our 96 year old company on various sail boat
internet discussion sites including Sailnet and the Morgan 41 owners site.
(Apparently Mr.Gundlach's boat, The Flying Pig is a Morgan). Our customers
also tell us to disregard his rants because he has a pattern of posting
daily on many different sites and he doesn't have the highest credibility.

We urge the BBB to overturn this complaint. We have referred this matter to
our attorneys and they tell us that they will be pursuing this matter in the
courts of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for damages resulting from
"interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions.


Best Regards,

Philip George
Service Manager
508-753-2979




I'd be interested to see on what basis I can be found responsible for (Open
Quote) "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander
(close Quote) given that most of my post on which the complaint would be
based consisted of verbatim transcripts of our email communications, of
which half were theirs (and, of course, theirs, proving my point).

Not to mention that slander is verbal defamation (from the Legal Dictionary:
"1 : defamation of a person by unprivileged oral communication made to a
third party"); I believe Mr. George intends Libel, the publishing of
untruths (from http://www.cyberlibel.com/libel.html#Number%201 : "The
classic definition is: "a publication without justification or lawful excuse
which is calculated to injure the reputation of another by exposing him to
hatred, contempt or ridicule." (Parke, B. in Parmiter v. Coupland (1840)
GM&W 105 at 108)" - and many other interesting points found at the same
site, all of which point to a fruitless enterprise on the attorney's part, -
but if his attorneys say it's slander, who am I, not a lawyer, to disagree?
And, do my numerous confirmatory respondents in public fora also run the
risk of such approbium???

And then there's his audacious and scurrilous mendacity with his customers,
some (others) found at Sailnet, of all places, given his citation using
Sailnet as part of his rant. I'm hardly alone - see
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...y-engines.html as
just a single point of reference for some perspective :{)) I'd have done
myself a world of good to have seen this link before my encounter (but I
didn't). To the above paragraph, did his attorneys go after all those
posters, as well?? Note his "our customers tell" them to disregard me.
Interesting that I've not heard from any of them in his defense, nor get the
criticism (I get plenty of criticism - read: polarity of views - about some
of my posts on various levels, but not usually about stuff I have first-hand
experience with) cited. Am I now to take _him_ to libel action? :{))

Note, of course, the total lack of response to the bait-and-switch part of
the complaint, let alone the customer service attitude and followup
(including offering to sell me the missing parts and then demanding an
additional $50 purchase when I tried to do that, as seen in my original -
another bait-and-switch, in my view). However, back to his response
specifics:

Foley Engine, the self-proclaimed diesel engine experts, should not have had
to be notified of a part sent into them (the banjo bolts) which should have
been retained. I've never before worked on them (if I had, I might have
known not to include them when I sent off the cores, despite my - new -
spares having them on them). However, even given my lack of practical
experience, if I'd seen 3000 injector cores come in (implied in the last 2
weeks between receipt and my notification) without them, I believe I would
recognize that this was out of order.

These so-called experts should have had that stick out like a sore thumb,
and have mentioned it in the requirement that I pay them $200 more than I
was quoted at the beginning. Without their having seen them, as seen in the
original, nothing would have happened (meaning, they had my injectors in
hand - had they not been acceptable cores, the order would have been
rejected, which suggests that they were inspected before I was called - and
were proceeding with the order, however it may have concluded). The
suggestion that I go to the local Perkins dealer, given that I was in the
Bahamas, was disingenous at best. Even when I was in the states, it
involved a drive of a couple of hours, as seen in my original post.

Failing that, as pointed out, in my last letter to them, and his response to
the BBB, it's less than $15 for the required parts. Don't you suppose that
it would have been REALLY good business (particularly, since I agreed, under
stress, to pay $100 more than I'd originally agreed), prompting a very
different sort of reaction from me, to have sent me those parts, new, with
the new injectors, saying something to the effect of "You'll need these;
they're not normally included, but since your engine won't run without them,
we've included them here. Remember us when you need more parts!"?

Those of you who follow my "rambling and nonsensical posts" (an assertion
from a followup poster to the BBB site, but softened to include that Foley
had a rough reputation in dispute resolution) know that I make repetitious
very positive noises about vendors I find going out of their way either in
good customer service or in delivering more than they promise, including
links to how to find them, in case one of my thousands of readers might like
to take advantage of such superior vendors. Imagine the difference
(counterweight to all the negative stuff which appears other than in a
thread originated by me, if one searches, as I SHOULD have done, before my
order) if I'd been singing their praises not only on this but on future
encounters with them!?!

You (regular readers) also know that I'm not shy about admitting dumb
mistakes. Likely, my retelling of this (different!) tale would have
included laughing at myself, and congratulating Foley on catching my error
(admitted, based on the new spares I had already in stock) and rectifying
it - whether by customer service of free parts, or, even, just a simple
sale of the parts to me (which should, of course, have occurred by their
immediate offer, instead of only after my many attempts to reach them, and,
especially, without requiring an additional $50 purchase).

Their loss, I've already eaten mine. If, in the EXTREMELY unlikely event
I'm so much as contacted by an attorney, let alone served, I'll follow up,
but, aside from this thread continuing, I expect this is the end of it.

L8R

Skip, lying George Town Exuma Bahamas

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
Foley Engines responds to the BBB - a followup to a post of about a month
ago titled "Dr. Diesel, Foley Engines, and me..." and subsequent thread
expansion which included reference to the Better Business Bureau...

As I was under sail and out of internet communication, I didn't see this
until just recently...

For those interested in seeing any other stuff which may appear, you can
go
to the link in the BBB - click on the "more" for expansion of any section:
http://central-westernma.app.bbb.org...24611/c/c98bbd...

This response from Foley was sent to the BBB on 4-1 (appropriately, April
Fool's Day).

Contact Name and Title: Philip George, Service Mg
Contact Phone: 508-753-2979
Contact Email:
Dear Sir/Ms.,

We sold Mr. Gundlach a set of fuel injectors for his Perkins Marine
engine.
The transaction was quite simple. Mr. Gundlach called to place an order
with
us. We took his order in good faith. The parts he purchased were
remanufactured and sold exchange (the old parts have to be sent back to
us).
The old injectors came back and we shipped a set of Factory Remanufactured
injectors out to Mr. Gundlach. In the interim, Mr. Gundlach says he left a
very small fitting on his old injectors. By the time this was brought to
our
attention Mr. Gundlach's old injectors had been processed along with the
hundreds of other injectors we process every week. We could not entertain
Mr. Gundlach's request for our people to "dig" through approximately 3000
injectors cores to look for these fittings. At that time we advised him to
simply go to his local Perkins dealer and obtain the replacement fittings
that he had said he had sent to us. The total cost for these parts should
not have exceeded $15. We can not take responsibility for Mr. Gundlach's
decision to remove or nor remove these fittings from his old injectors.
For
all of the above reasons we unable to offer Mr. Gundlach any money for his
mistake.

Furthermore, Mr. Gundlach has a track record of writing long winded
complaints about issues with little or no merit. We are getting phone
calls
from past customers in the caribbean telling us that Mr. Gundlach is
posting
negative comments about our 96 year old company on various sail boat
internet discussion sites including Sailnet and the Morgan 41 owners site.
(Apparently Mr.Gundlach's boat, The Flying Pig is a Morgan). Our customers
also tell us to disregard his rants because he has a pattern of posting
daily on many different sites and he doesn't have the highest credibility.

We urge the BBB to overturn this complaint. We have referred this matter
to
our attorneys and they tell us that they will be pursuing this matter in
the
courts of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for damages resulting from
"interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions.


Best Regards,

Philip George
Service Manager
508-753-2979




I'd be interested to see on what basis I can be found responsible for
(Open
Quote) "interference with a beneficial business relationship" and slander
(close Quote) given that most of my post on which the complaint would be
based consisted of verbatim transcripts of our email communications, of
which half were theirs (and, of course, theirs, proving my point).

Not to mention that slander is verbal defamation (from the Legal
Dictionary:
"1 : defamation of a person by unprivileged oral communication made to a
third party"); I believe Mr. George intends Libel, the publishing of
untruths (from http://www.cyberlibel.com/libel.html#Number%201 : "The
classic definition is: "a publication without justification or lawful
excuse
which is calculated to injure the reputation of another by exposing him to
hatred, contempt or ridicule." (Parke, B. in Parmiter v. Coupland (1840)
GM&W 105 at 108)" - and many other interesting points found at the same
site, all of which point to a fruitless enterprise on the attorney's
part, -
but if his attorneys say it's slander, who am I, not a lawyer, to
disagree?
And, do my numerous confirmatory respondents in public fora also run the
risk of such approbium???

And then there's his audacious and scurrilous mendacity with his
customers, some (others) found at Sailnet, of all places, given his
citation using Sailnet as part of his rant. I'm hardly alone - see
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-m...y-engines.html as
just a single point of reference for some perspective :{)) I'd have done
myself a world of good to have seen this link before my encounter (but I
didn't). To the above paragraph, did his attorneys go after all those
posters, as well?? Note his "our customers tell" them to disregard me.
Interesting that I've not heard from any of them in his defense, nor get
the criticism (I get plenty of criticism - read: polarity of views - about
some of my posts on various levels, but not usually about stuff I have
first-hand experience with) cited. Am I now to take _him_ to libel
action? :{))

Note, of course, the total lack of response to the bait-and-switch part of
the complaint, let alone the customer service attitude and followup
(including offering to sell me the missing parts and then demanding an
additional $50 purchase when I tried to do that, as seen in my original -
another bait-and-switch, in my view). However, back to his response
specifics:

Foley Engine, the self-proclaimed diesel engine experts, should not have
had
to be notified of a part sent into them (the banjo bolts) which should
have
been retained. I've never before worked on them (if I had, I might have
known not to include them when I sent off the cores, despite my - new -
spares having them on them). However, even given my lack of practical
experience, if I'd seen 3000 injector cores come in (implied in the last 2
weeks between receipt and my notification) without them, I believe I would
recognize that this was out of order.

These so-called experts should have had that stick out like a sore thumb,
and have mentioned it in the requirement that I pay them $200 more than I
was quoted at the beginning. Without their having seen them, as seen in
the
original, nothing would have happened (meaning, they had my injectors in
hand - had they not been acceptable cores, the order would have been
rejected, which suggests that they were inspected before I was called -
and
were proceeding with the order, however it may have concluded). The
suggestion that I go to the local Perkins dealer, given that I was in the
Bahamas, was disingenous at best. Even when I was in the states, it
involved a drive of a couple of hours, as seen in my original post.

Failing that, as pointed out, in my last letter to them, and his response
to
the BBB, it's less than $15 for the required parts. Don't you suppose
that
it would have been REALLY good business (particularly, since I agreed,
under
stress, to pay $100 more than I'd originally agreed), prompting a very
different sort of reaction from me, to have sent me those parts, new, with
the new injectors, saying something to the effect of "You'll need these;
they're not normally included, but since your engine won't run without
them,
we've included them here. Remember us when you need more parts!"?

Those of you who follow my "rambling and nonsensical posts" (an assertion
from a followup poster to the BBB site, but softened to include that Foley
had a rough reputation in dispute resolution) know that I make repetitious
very positive noises about vendors I find going out of their way either in
good customer service or in delivering more than they promise, including
links to how to find them, in case one of my thousands of readers might
like
to take advantage of such superior vendors. Imagine the difference
(counterweight to all the negative stuff which appears other than in a
thread originated by me, if one searches, as I SHOULD have done, before my
order) if I'd been singing their praises not only on this but on future
encounters with them!?!

You (regular readers) also know that I'm not shy about admitting dumb
mistakes. Likely, my retelling of this (different!) tale would have
included laughing at myself, and congratulating Foley on catching my error
(admitted, based on the new spares I had already in stock) and rectifying
it - whether by customer service of free parts, or, even, just a simple
sale of the parts to me (which should, of course, have occurred by their
immediate offer, instead of only after my many attempts to reach them,
and,
especially, without requiring an additional $50 purchase).

Their loss, I've already eaten mine. If, in the EXTREMELY unlikely event
I'm so much as contacted by an attorney, let alone served, I'll follow up,
but, aside from this thread continuing, I expect this is the end of it.

L8R

Skip, lying George Town Exuma Bahamas

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)


I don't know about yours Skip, but my life is full enough that I would have
stopped worrying about the parts (that you mistakenly sent in) and moved on
long ago.
Enjoy where you are and what you're doing! Most people will never get the
chance to cruise.

I don't see why you are seeking remedy from BBB when your vendor isn't a
member. I'm surprised it even replied.

I don't see you gaining by continuing this. If it were me, I'd take it
as one of life's lumps and look forward. The BBB can't force the vendor
to do squat. You may as well complain to the fire department close to
Foley.

To both current responders, perhaps this, from the morgan mailing list, will
help put it in perspective - I have no expectations, whatsoever, of hearing
from them again, and, as noted in other posts, have long since eaten any
loss...

**********
I have never done business with this guy but I have with guys just like him.
Its thanks to guys like you that we can be spared the experience and steer
clear of them. Don't let the blowhard worry you with his "I am gonna set my
lawyers on you" attitude. it will never happen.
Thanks!
***********

Yah, I know. There's no way any lawyers were involved, cuz no lawyer would
mistake slander (I've *spoken* to very few on the subject; the likelihood
that such verbal reports would have reached his ears is infinitesimal,
particularly, had the few who've *heard* about it from me would have
attacked me on the spot if they were a rabid supporter) for libel :{))

OTOH, there are many like you who have either confirmed my experience, or
commented about their benefit from it.

That won't do anything to interrupt or otherwise diminish their business,
obviously, as there are still legions who will search for diesel suppliers,
get Foley as a reference, see their impressive web page(s) and not go
further to investigate comments/reports on experiences with those found...

I have to say, as I told Lydia yesterday, that this is the most fun I've had
in a while, well worth the $100 extra I paid over my original quote. I
would RELISH having an actual summons - and, since I'm going to be in the NE
in July, perhaps I'll pay them a visit and give them the opportunity
VBSEG, as they won't send a server to the Caribbean, or even to N. GA
where I'll otherwise be :{))

And, the lousy experience WRT the banjo bolts (my error, of course, based on
an assumption from the NEW [not rebuilt] injectors I had in spares) aside,
the injectors work, fit (of course), and have seemed to have had a very
beneficial effect on my consumption. I probably would have saved a little,
perhaps a lot, if they just needed servicing rather than rebuilding, by
using the 2-hours-away folks I had started with in my search, but I didn't
have to go through it (the travel and uncertainty as to their ability to
make it happen without sending them off to their rebuild shop).

L8R

Skip, still in Georgetown, about to put up the next of our logs...

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand. You seek problems because you need their gifts."

(Richard Bach, in Illusions - The Reluctant Messiah

On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Classic tempest in a teapot.
Foley won't be hurt.
And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after
hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts
you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened.
I wouldn't hesitate using Foley.
But they won't get my business.
I don't have any diesel injectors.

--Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.)

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Classic tempest in a teapot.
Foley won't be hurt.
And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after
hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts
you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened.
I wouldn't hesitate using Foley.
But they won't get my business.
I don't have any diesel injectors.

--Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.)

Hi Vic! How are you?

On Sun, 2 May 2010 12:48:32 -0400, "mmc" wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Classic tempest in a teapot.
Foley won't be hurt.
And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after
hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts
you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened.
I wouldn't hesitate using Foley.
But they won't get my business.
I don't have any diesel injectors.

--Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.)

Hi Vic! How are you?


Just fine mmc, and you?

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 2 May 2010 12:48:32 -0400, "mmc" wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Classic tempest in a teapot.
Foley won't be hurt.
And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after
hours (or him encountering you) and your mistake in sending them parts
you shouldn't have - none of this would have happened.
I wouldn't hesitate using Foley.
But they won't get my business.
I don't have any diesel injectors.

--Vic (seeing if we can get another whistle from the pot.)

Hi Vic! How are you?


Just fine mmc, and you?

--Vic

Doing fine. Had a cold crappy winter (for FL) but a nice 2 weeks of spring.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Foley won't be hurt.

Most likely not. With any luck, neither will the legions of potential
others who have had my experience expand very much.

And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after

An IRRITATED? employee?? I commend you to read the sailnet link I
provided.
Obviously you have not, or you wouldn't bother sniping.

hours (or him encountering you)

My first call (which was what started the whole thing) was on a
Tuesday, at
5:15, when they close at 6. I wish that they'd been closed.

and your mistake in sending them parts

No ****. Never again.

Much L8R :{))

On Mon, 3 May 2010 04:36:14 -0700 (PDT), Skip Gundlach
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 2 May 2010 11:30:57 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Foley won't be hurt.

Most likely not. With any luck, neither will the legions of potential
others who have had my experience expand very much.

And except for you catching an irritated employee on their phone after

An IRRITATED? employee?? I commend you to read the sailnet link I
provided.
Obviously you have not, or you wouldn't bother sniping.

hours (or him encountering you)

My first call (which was what started the whole thing) was on a
Tuesday, at
5:15, when they close at 6. I wish that they'd been closed.

and your mistake in sending them parts

No ****. Never again.

Much L8R :{))


Read some of the sailnet stuff.
Looks like the guy you dealt with is the owner.
I've dealt with plenty of cranky assholes.
Ends up one of two ways, mostly depending on my mood.
Either I read him right and can work with him enough I don't blow my
stack and we make a deal, or we tell each other to get ****ed.
This Foley character is still in business, so he's doing something
right.
I get the feeling he just doesn't like some people right off the bat.
May not be the way to make friends and influence people, but then
some people don't care about that. He's one of them.
Nothing wrong with you warning people off him, but while you may view
him as ogre, to him you're a mosquito.
He's on the phone all day dealing with customers or driving them away.
Then he goes home and does whatever he does without giving them
another thought.
That's basically what I meant by "tempest in a teapot."
He owns the pot.
I'm guessing the bulk of his business is with professional mechanics,
and to him the "boaty" customers are a different species.
I saw one post where somebody went into Foley's for an injector pump
and was repeatedly queried about whether he was a diesel mechanic.
I've run into similar attitudes in the furnace part supply business
when buying parts.
They don't deal well with non-pros.
There are some reasons for that, but that discussion goes astray from
talking about getting the right boat engine parts at the right price
with the right service.
I can't recall what options you had to get your injectors, but
excepting dealing with an asshole and mistakenly sacrificing your
banjo bolts, seems you got the job done.
Did you ever find a source other than Foley that you could have used
or will use next time you're fixing your Perkins in an exotic
location?
You should publicize it.

--Vic