http://www.sail- world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship-
Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633

Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made
the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss.

Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but it
does make sense.
Wrong place at the wrong time.

On Feb 21, 6:42*am, "mmc" wrote:
http://www.sail-world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship-
Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633

Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made
the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss.

Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but it
does make sense.
Wrong place at the wrong time.



White Squall
See the movie
bob

"mmc" wrote in message
ng.com...
http://www.sail- world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship-
Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633

Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made
the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss.

Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but
it does make sense.
Wrong place at the wrong time.





I sure wish people would learn how to post links that actually point to
something. Something as simple as copying and pasting a link seems to be
beyond the intelligence of way too many folks these days. . . Sad.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Feb 21, 1:25*pm, Bob wrote:

White Squall
See the movie
bob

You would suggest a Hollywood movie as having anything credible to
contribute to this question?

You never cease to amaze me Bob.

Reading this about the subject of the movie would be more useful:

http://books.google.com/books?id=XHR...um=2&ct=result

Sorry, long link. Hope it works. You may have to cut and paste. If
it doesn't work, look for the "Read About it Here" link on this page:

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Stability.htm

The "Albatross" had just about the same stability characteristics as
the "Marques". In the big study I did for ASTA and the Coast Guard,
all the vessels we could get data on that hadn't capsized plotted in a
group up in the top right hand corner of the graphs. "Albatross",
"Marques", and another vessel that had also capsized were down in a
group in the lower left with lots of white space in between. There
were no other vessels down there that had not capsized. It didn't
take a microburst in those cases. When sailing at a normal heel angle
with the deckedge about at the waterline, the "Marques" only needed a
22% increase in wind speed to capsize her. "Albatross" was about the
same.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
On Feb 21, 1:25 pm, Bob wrote:

White Squall
See the movie
bob

You would suggest a Hollywood movie as having anything credible to
contribute to this question?

You never cease to amaze me Bob.

Reading this about the subject of the movie would be more useful:

http://books.google.com/books?id=XHR...um=2&ct=result

Sorry, long link. Hope it works. You may have to cut and paste. If
it doesn't work, look for the "Read About it Here" link on this page:

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/Stability.htm

The "Albatross" had just about the same stability characteristics as
the "Marques". In the big study I did for ASTA and the Coast Guard,
all the vessels we could get data on that hadn't capsized plotted in a
group up in the top right hand corner of the graphs. "Albatross",
"Marques", and another vessel that had also capsized were down in a
group in the lower left with lots of white space in between. There
were no other vessels down there that had not capsized. It didn't
take a microburst in those cases. When sailing at a normal heel angle
with the deckedge about at the waterline, the "Marques" only needed a
22% increase in wind speed to capsize her. "Albatross" was about the
same.

--
Roger Long


------------
Never saw the "Perfect Storm" either.
After reading the authors admissions that he knew nothing about the sea or
boats, reading his imaginary scenario about how the boat went down and his
less than respectfull descriptions of the people involved, I didn't just put
the book down but threw it in the trash.
If Hollywood followed reality they'd never sell any tickets.
How's it going Roger?

On Feb 21, 4:37*pm, "mmc" wrote:

How's it going Roger?

Going good. I'm designing a very cool boat for a company in China and
starting to inquiries about work that indicate that the economy is
showing signs of life.

I was going to take a winter off from working on my boat but I've had
to put off my planned grand tour of Nova Scotia another year due to
some family stuff. I'm taking advantage of the more relaxed schedule
in the spring to undertake the major project of putting a rather
interesting heating system in the boat. Details he

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/10Winter.htm

"Perfect Storm" is actually quite a good book if you simply cut all
the reported wave heights in half. Someone I used to work for did the
stability test on the boat and he told me he didn't think she ever saw
the storm. She had probably rolled over and sunk long before it had
built up into anything remarkable.

How are things in your corner of the world?

--
Roger Long

On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:04:25 -0800 (PST), Roger Long
wrote:

When sailing at a normal heel angle
with the deckedge about at the waterline, the "Marques" only needed a
22% increase in wind speed to capsize her. "Albatross" was about the
same.

Once they get knocked down, do they stay down ?

I used to race on a Ultra Light Sport Boat that was like that. You'd
be sitting there on the rail, thinking about going out on the keel,
saying to yourself: "It should pop back up any second now." After you
said that 4 or 5 times, and rejected the notion of going out on the
keel, it would in fact pop back up.

"mmc" wrote in message
ng.com...
http://www.sail- world.com/ USA/Mystery- sinking-of- tall-ship-
Concordia, -64-rescued- from-lifeboats/ 66633

Tall Ship Concordia sinks off the coast of Brazil, well trained crew made
the difference between tragedy and just a financial loss.

Never heard of a microburst sinking a vessel or even on the open sea but
it does make sense.

Two ships that I happen to know of:

Pride of Baltimore, a replica of a 19th century Baltimore Clipper schooner,
went down from a microburst near Bermuda in 1986. Her first mate at the
time, Sugar Flanagan, is a personal friend, and can usually be found right
down the dock from me on his current boat, the Alden schooner Alcyone,
sailing out of Port Townsend, WA, on charter. The story of their survival
and rescue is a real epic. He and the Pride's cook at the time, Leslie
McNish, resolved to marry if they survived - they were in the raft at the
time, you understand - and some time after they were rescued by a Norwegian
freighter they were married in Maine, where Sugar was from and where his
family resided. They now have two beautiful teenage daughters.

Another was one of Irving Johnson's Yankees, a 98-foot steel pilot schooner,
rigged at the time as I recall as a brigantine, which under later ownership
was taken down the same way in the South Pacific. For many years afterwards
the hull lay up on one of the South Pacific reefs, and for all I know might
still be there. He owned and skippered two different Yankees and both of
them came to bad ends in later ownership, but the one I'm describing was not
the one that Mick Burke of Windjammer Cruises (may their name be cursed)
ended up owning. That one just suffered from some of their usual bad
management and dragged anchor in a blow and ended up on a reef in Rarotonga.

The White Squall movie was kind of over-dramatized, but the events from
which it was drawn really happened.

Tom Dacon

On Feb 22, 12:42*am, "Tom Dacon" wrote:

Two ships that I happen to know of:


Neither of those was a microburst. I was up to my eyebrows in the POB
event. The captain send down right after the event to deal with
things and find out what happened called me from the airport before he
even spoke to the board to get some insights on the stability angle to
assist his briefing. I later spoke to the man who discovered
microbursts and gave them their name. He assured me that there were
no conditions out there at the time that could have caused one
although there was unstable weather that could create sudden increases
in wind. I have the full stability history on the vessel in my files.

The "Albatross" didn't need a microburst to sink her. See above and
read "Tall Ships Down". She is one of those ships that it is amazing
that it got as far as it did before capsizing. I have the complete
set of Dutch construction plans, and complete plans for the
conversion, including a very competently performed stability test, to
base this opinion on. She was the best documented vessel we were able
to get data on for the ASTA / USCG study that was used to develop the
SSV stability regulations.

--
Roger Long

On Feb 21, 6:40*pm, Wayne.B wrote:

Once they get knocked down, do they stay down ?

It depends on the stability characteristics which are highly variable
from ship to ship. Loading and ballasting can change the answer to
that question even on the same vessel.

--
Roger Long