On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:29:14 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wilbur Hubbard"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.cruising
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 4:00 PM
Subject: I hate to say it but there sure is a bunch of ignorance here
concerning VHF antennas



Heh. Sorry Wilbur, but you haven't been following the thread.

My unit wouldn't receive worth a damn - until I hooked it to a good
antenna and feed.

My last showed that even a lousy position, so long as I had a good feed,
was fine for reception and transmission. Had me going for a bit on the
radio, but it's fine. The antenna works, with just a pigtail. Nothing
left but the cable...



For NOW. But, did I not state that it is a condition that becomes
progressively worse? Or did you forget you read it? But, suit yourself.
Remember when it goes out completely when needed the most way down island
that I TOLD YOU SO.

Wilbur Hubbard


Ya, but it's no longer an issue. It never "got worse" - it's been that way
sorta forever, and until here in MH, it hadn't been an issue. Many times in
Georgetown, we'd not hear very well - but everyone was a lot closer. Before
then, it was a head-scratcher which got lost in the shuffle of all the other
stuff which was going on simultaneously.

Until here, it didn't really matter. And, having proven, with about as
lousy a possible antenna position as possible, that the antenna and radio
worked just fine, I'm not going to worry about it (the radio).

Now, I'm just looking for the best cable for the application - lighter, more
flexible, best resistance to water/salt intrusion, and best throughput. A
3db loss is half power, and given that I've got somewhere on the order of
75-80 feet, a multiplier of 1.5 on a 50' (or .75 on a 100') spec would give
me my loss, using 100, 150 and 200 mHz, those covering all the VHF
channels - and 150 a reasonable place if I didn't want to mess with the
math. I'm surely not interested in something like 3, and would prefer
something like 1 or less.

Finding all of those in one cable will involve tradeoffs, for sure, but - I
guess, but am willing to be convinced otherwise - the order of preference
for me would be signal loss, water/salt prevention, and then ease of
handling. Cost, given the relatively small amount in the scheme of things,
is a distant 4th.

This is only one of several places this discussion is happening, and I get
constant reference to both positive and negatives on 400, 8x, 58, 142, 9913,
and a few others...

Let the debate continue :{))

L8R

Skip


RG-213 is similar to RG-142, except you can find it for 70 cents a
foot. Mil spec and everything! Rated for both direct burial
(waterproof) and UV exposure.

wrote in message
...

RG-213 is similar to RG-142, except you can find it for 70 cents a
foot. Mil spec and everything! Rated for both direct burial
(waterproof) and UV exposure.


Hi, Salty,

I didn't find, in my looking, any 213 MilSpec - can you give me a link?

However, and significantly, I did find that 213 is 2.8 vs 400's 1.5 loss on
the 150mHz band - and, much worse, of course, are the 8x at 4.7. 9913 is
only 1.7, and I can't put my hands on 142's at the moment...

Meanwhile, I've been seeing reference to copperplated aluminum center
conductors, or copper tube (on the monster sizes), along with the solid and
stranded copper. I have some challenges with clad/plated, cuz if it doesn't
hold up well in soldering, then I'm trying to solder AL. Anyone have any RW
experience with this? I know that AL was used in some house wiring, due to
costs, with some disastrous (heating/expansion-contraction) results in some
cases. Should I be nervous about this, or does the much higher copper melt
temp make this a non-issue for soldering?

Thanks for all the inputs. I'm slow, but I'm learning :{))

L8R

Skip

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On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:44:15 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

RG-213 is similar to RG-142, except you can find it for 70 cents a
foot. Mil spec and everything! Rated for both direct burial
(waterproof) and UV exposure.


Hi, Salty,

I didn't find, in my looking, any 213 MilSpec - can you give me a link?

However, and significantly, I did find that 213 is 2.8 vs 400's 1.5 loss on
the 150mHz band - and, much worse, of course, are the 8x at 4.7. 9913 is
only 1.7, and I can't put my hands on 142's at the moment...

Meanwhile, I've been seeing reference to copperplated aluminum center
conductors, or copper tube (on the monster sizes), along with the solid and
stranded copper. I have some challenges with clad/plated, cuz if it doesn't
hold up well in soldering, then I'm trying to solder AL. Anyone have any RW
experience with this? I know that AL was used in some house wiring, due to
costs, with some disastrous (heating/expansion-contraction) results in some
cases. Should I be nervous about this, or does the much higher copper melt
temp make this a non-issue for soldering?

Thanks for all the inputs. I'm slow, but I'm learning :{))

L8R

Skip

My feeling is that you are overanalyzing this. Comparing anything to
400 is pointless, as 400 is not practical on a boat. Worrying about
which cable has the lowest loss amongst a bunch of cables that are all
"low loss" is also pointless. If you go to some place like a West
Marine and they have a "standard" cable and a "better" cable", buy the
"better cable" and you will have what you need. That's really as hard
as this decision needs to be. The RG142 might be nice, but I honestly
doubt you will get anything out of it that you won't get from the
"better" cable at West. It may give slightly better measurements in a
lab, but out on a pitching boat, with a less than 100 foot run of
cable, there will be NO discernable difference in performance. None,
nada, zip.

I just did a google and found this place that has it. There is also a
PDF there that, just for laughs, compares RG-213 side by side with 8x.
http://www.jefatech.com/product/RG21..._The_Foot.html

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:58:21 -0500, wrote:

The RG142 might be nice, but I honestly
doubt you will get anything out of it that you won't get from the
"better" cable at West. It may give slightly better measurements in a
lab, but out on a pitching boat, with a less than 100 foot run of
cable, there will be NO discernable difference in performance. None,
nada, zip.

I just did a google and found this place that has it. There is also a
PDF there that, just for laughs, compares RG-213 side by side with 8x.
http://www.jefatech.com/product/RG21..._The_Foot.html

RG213 is good cable, reasonably priced, and perfectly adequate for
most applications. That said, an 80 ft run to the top of a sailboat
mast is not "most" applications and every db counts. Durability
counts for a lot also and I don't think you can beat double shielding
and silver plated conductors in that department, and let's not forget
the teflon insulation which is *much* more durable than polyethylene,
and *much* less susceptible to being damaged by soldering.

If it was my mast, and was about to go to the trouble of snaking in a
new coax, I'd go with the best available if the price difference was
not astronomical.

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:58:21 -0500, wrote:

The RG142 might be nice, but I honestly
doubt you will get anything out of it that you won't get from the
"better" cable at West. It may give slightly better measurements in a
lab, but out on a pitching boat, with a less than 100 foot run of
cable, there will be NO discernable difference in performance. None,
nada, zip.

I just did a google and found this place that has it. There is also a
PDF there that, just for laughs, compares RG-213 side by side with 8x.
http://www.jefatech.com/product/RG21..._The_Foot.html

RG213 is good cable, reasonably priced, and perfectly adequate for
most applications. That said, an 80 ft run to the top of a sailboat
mast is not "most" applications and every db counts. Durability
counts for a lot also and I don't think you can beat double shielding
and silver plated conductors in that department, and let's not forget
the teflon insulation which is *much* more durable than polyethylene,
and *much* less susceptible to being damaged by soldering.

If it was my mast, and was about to go to the trouble of snaking in a
new coax, I'd go with the best available if the price difference was
not astronomical.

In article ,
"Flying Pig" wrote:

However, and significantly, I did find that 213 is 2.8 vs 400's 1.5 loss on
the 150mHz band - and, much worse, of course, are the 8x at 4.7. 9913 is
only 1.7, and I can't put my hands on 142's at the moment...

Beldon 9913 is NOT really what you want in a Marine Situation, as it is
HOLLOW Core, and NEEDS a 1 Foot Bending Radius... You could try 9914, if
the still make it, but again it is,t really a Marine type Coax. RG-213
is what MOST Marine Folks use, OR if Money is NO OBJECT RG-214, which is
what the Navy and Feds use....

--
Bruce in alaska
add path after fast to reply

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:50:47 -0900, Bruce in alaska
wrote:

OR if Money is NO OBJECT RG-214, which is
what the Navy and Feds use....

A quick Google reveals the stuff on sale at $3.90/ft. Depends on how
much value you place on having your Mayday heard. If you are really
into saving money go with cheap flares and lifejackets.

Casady

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:18:01 -0600, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:50:47 -0900, Bruce in alaska
wrote:

OR if Money is NO OBJECT RG-214, which is
what the Navy and Feds use....

A quick Google reveals the stuff on sale at $3.90/ft. Depends on how
much value you place on having your Mayday heard. If you are really
into saving money go with cheap flares and lifejackets.

Casady

Yep. I think the issue of cable value and what to get is over.
Now it mostly depends on how much you value your life.
And your passengers' lives.
Easy decision. Maybe.

--Vic

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:28:48 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 06:18:01 -0600, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:50:47 -0900, Bruce in alaska
wrote:

OR if Money is NO OBJECT RG-214, which is
what the Navy and Feds use....

A quick Google reveals the stuff on sale at $3.90/ft. Depends on how
much value you place on having your Mayday heard. If you are really
into saving money go with cheap flares and lifejackets.

Casady

Yep. I think the issue of cable value and what to get is over.
Now it mostly depends on how much you value your life.
And your passengers' lives.
Easy decision. Maybe.

--Vic

Baloney. If you are THAT worried, you shouldn't be on a boat. The
percentage of times where 214 will save you and 213 won't is
essentially ZERO.

If you want to overspend on something meaningful for safety, look
elsewhere. Maybe use the money to buy an extra handheld or an Epirb
with better batteries.

wrote:

OR if Money is NO OBJECT RG-214, which is
what the Navy and Feds use....
A quick Google reveals the stuff on sale at $3.90/ft. Depends on how
much value you place on having your Mayday heard. If you are really
into saving money go with cheap flares and lifejackets.

Casady

Yep. I think the issue of cable value and what to get is over.
Now it mostly depends on how much you value your life.
And your passengers' lives.
Easy decision. Maybe.

--Vic

/snip/ The percentage of times where 214 will save you and 213
won't is essentially ZERO.

If you want to overspend on something meaningful for safety, look
elsewhere. Maybe use the money to buy an extra handheld or an Epirb
with better batteries.




There is yet another way of valuing coax. If you get into a situation
next year where a low-loss coax would JUST reach help, otherwise you
perish, then you SHOULDN'T choose 214 or one of the more expensive ones
still.
There are lower loss, cheaper coax choices out there.

Instead, 214 and the like are insurance against the day that may come in
12 years time, when the signal lines have taken a couple of knock-downs,
and weeks of sea fog end in a call for help. THAT'S the moment when the
cost earns its price.

This year, you would get more range from a much cheaper coax, before
time and weather take their toll....

Brian Whatcott