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#92
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Capsize Prevention
"Vic Smith" wrote in message
... On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:14:01 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote: I think that you will find that whether a sailboat, a powerboat or a row boat, the court will always find against the party who, in the event evasive action was possible, failed to take evasive action or to do everything in his/her power to avoid the accident. Problem is, that's usually both parties. --Vic Yes, to some degree/percent. Reminds me of the comment that unless you have six nuns in habits aboard, and are anchored with all appropriate measures in place, you're likely to be found somewhat at fault in a collision. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#93
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Capsize Prevention
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:26:12 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:14:01 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote: I think that you will find that whether a sailboat, a powerboat or a row boat, the court will always find against the party who, in the event evasive action was possible, failed to take evasive action or to do everything in his/her power to avoid the accident. Problem is, that's usually both parties. --Vic Yes, to some degree/percent. Reminds me of the comment that unless you have six nuns in habits aboard, and are anchored with all appropriate measures in place, you're likely to be found somewhat at fault in a collision. Provided that you are anchored in an approved anchorage :-) Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
#94
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Capsize Prevention
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:56:51 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:14:01 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote: On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:19:15 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:58:25 +0200, "Edgar" wrote: wrote in message m... On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:32:26 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:44:15 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: If I turn on my engine, even if it's in neutral, I consider myself a powerboat. That is the way the rules are being taught and interpreted these days. Not really. Even Americas Cup racers are permitted to run an engine for charging purposes while racing. I have an outboard on my boat. If I am just noodling around and not trying to set any speed records, I may leave the engine in the water while sailing, even though it is not running. That may look like I'm motoring to you, but if you don't see a black sphere hanging from my spreaders, or a steaming light, I'm a sailboat. That's the LAW. No it is not. A black sphere signifies that you are at anchor. You should have said 'cone apex downward' When I typed that, my brain was idling and not in gear. :- ) Lets's just change it to, "That may look like I'm motoring to you, but if you don't see a day shape or navigation light indicating otherwise, I'm a sailboat. If jon were to find himself in an Admiralty court, and proudly stated that although he was legally sailing, he was acting as if he was a powerboat, I think that would open him up to some unexpected surprises. He would have just admitted that he was not following the colregs. One basic problem with his practice is that it leads to confusion by other vessels, who will be expecting his vessel to act as what it really is. Not much different from the chucklehead on land who trys and give the right of way to others at a 4 way stop, when it is his turn to go. Suddenly, order evaporates and no one knows what to expect or do. This is followed by all cars lurching and stopping as they play guessing games in the intersection. Actually if jon were to find himself in Admiralty Court the first question that would be asked is "Who took what action to avoid or prevent the accident". Only after this question is resolved will the question of what objects were dangling from the forestay arise. I think that you will find that whether a sailboat, a powerboat or a row boat, the court will always find against the party who, in the event evasive action was possible, failed to take evasive action or to do everything in his/her power to avoid the accident. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) It's almost unheard of for one party to be assigned 100% of the blame. Contributing factors are what Admiralty Court is all about. Just as with the application of law on land, if you expect court decisions to reflect what YOU think is common sense, you will be wrong pretty much 100% of the time. The colregs are merely a starting point for the discussion. Find me a court case where a tanker or freighter was found at fault for failing to "give way" for a crossing "stand-on" row boat. Similarly, you will find that when a case gets to court, allowances will be made for the manuvering problems of a sailboat with both sails up and engine running in gear at the same time. They are not as manuverable as they would be with the sails down, and the court understands that. It is also understood that because they have much smaller mechanical drive systems, they can't slow down or stop as fast as a similar sized power boat. None of that is spelled out in the Colregs, but it is always a factor in court. A few years ago there was a case in the Singapore Admiralty Court wherein a ship proceeding East deviated into the West bound traffic lane. A collision resulted. The findings of the court never mentioned the colregs but relied solely on the Singapore Traffic System Regulations. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) |
#95
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Capsize Prevention
"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
... On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:26:12 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:14:01 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote: I think that you will find that whether a sailboat, a powerboat or a row boat, the court will always find against the party who, in the event evasive action was possible, failed to take evasive action or to do everything in his/her power to avoid the accident. Problem is, that's usually both parties. --Vic Yes, to some degree/percent. Reminds me of the comment that unless you have six nuns in habits aboard, and are anchored with all appropriate measures in place, you're likely to be found somewhat at fault in a collision. Provided that you are anchored in an approved anchorage :-) Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) Or have a light on in one that isn't. heh -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#96
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Capsize Prevention
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:50:02 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote: Yes, to some degree/percent. Reminds me of the comment that unless you have six nuns in habits aboard, and are anchored with all appropriate measures in place, you're likely to be found somewhat at fault in a collision. Provided that you are anchored in an approved anchorage :-) Cheers, A few years ago the Lake Okiboji cops killed a guy in his bunk in an approved anchorage. It is against the law to go more than 5 mph within 300 feet of shore, of course. These are the guys who wrote up a guy for that whose sinking boat wouldn't have made it to shore if he had slowed down. Casady |
#97
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Capsize Prevention
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009 09:52:40 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote: On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:36:33 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:17:30 -0400, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:49:56 -0400, Jeff wrote: Since most un-powered boats are not registered, its not easy to determine their relative safety. We'd have to look at hours spent in various types of boats, etc. There were statistics published sometime in the last couple of years which showed that deaths in canoes and kayaks were way out of proportion to their overall numbers. Canoes and kayaks are usually unregistered of course. That's not surprising. Seems like an awful lot of people with very little boating knowledge are buying or renting rotomolded Kayaks and blithely heading out into dangerous situations. It's become as big a fad as hula hoops, but a lot more dangerous. I would be surprised if hula hoops sold fewer than a hundred times as many as kayaks. Pretty much every family I knew had at least one. They made the news regularly for a while. Addendum: More than a hundred million in the first year. Casady |
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