For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages. Can't say I blame them for feeling
that way.
Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled
noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so.
They have to spin up pretty high under load.
Another issue is they exhaust to the air.

The OB manufacturers could come up with the suggested option, but
given the marketplace and engineering considerations, they are not.
A retrofit kit might sell and be a profitable venture.
The heavy alt on the OB could be regulated to limit alt drag while
underway, perhaps automatically/manually dialed adjustment, or perhaps
detached and stowed.
So in port or when otherwise needed you have a "quiet" water-cooled
9-15 hp genset in the same package as your propulsion motor.
A mounted kicker OB doing gen duty is another possibility.
There are obvious issues with cowling size, pulleys and electrical
connections.
Perhaps with salt water intrusion.
Maybe a heavier electrical plug to the boat system while in port.
OEM O/B warranty is gone of course.
Don't know. That's why I'm leaving it in your inventive hands.
Let me know what you think. Anybody. I'm sure I'm not the first to
think about this.

--Vic

On Jul 13, 9:58*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
For O/B sailboats.
A 50-80 Amp alternator on a 9-15 hp OB.

Sailors often carry a Honda EU1000-2000 to provide juice at anchor.
Though not real loud, they can be an irritation to nearby boats,
especially big boats using big watercooled internal gensets that don't
make much outside noise. *Some of those owners think the Honda's
should be outlawed at anchorages. *Can't say I blame them for feeling
that way.
Biggest problem with the Honda EU1000-2000's is they are air-cooled
noisy and relatively low hp, maybe 5 hp or so.
They have to spin up pretty high under load.
Another issue is they exhaust to the air.

The OB manufacturers could come up with the suggested option, but
given the marketplace and engineering considerations, they are not.
A retrofit kit might sell and be a profitable venture.
The heavy alt on the OB could be regulated to limit alt drag while
underway, perhaps automatically/manually dialed adjustment, or perhaps
detached and stowed.
So in port or when otherwise needed you have a "quiet" water-cooled
9-15 hp genset in the same package as your propulsion motor.
A mounted kicker OB doing gen duty is another possibility.
There are obvious issues with cowling size, pulleys and electrical
connections.
Perhaps with salt water intrusion.
Maybe a heavier electrical plug to the boat system while in port.
OEM O/B warranty is gone of course.
Don't know. *That's why I'm leaving it in your inventive hands.
Let me know what you think. *Anybody. *I'm sure I'm not the first to
think about this.

--Vic

Questions:

1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?
2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).
3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?
4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. You might have a winner here. However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

David

Frogwatch wrote:


UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.


I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:


UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.


I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.

I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic


Unlikely. Galileo was a genius. Frogwatch is...a frog. And even if Loogy
kisses him, he won't turn into a prince. I'd trust the team at Dartmouth
to develop the right stuff, and Froggy to develop...a boat any fool
could manufacture using only empty cardboard boxes, a red Swingline
stapler, and his "magic spray" that turns the cardboard into a substance
with all the strength and durability of toilet paper.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:45:07 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:


UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.


I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic

A bite on an obvious troll.
--

John H

On Jul 14, 9:05*am, Just John Again wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:45:07 -0500, Vic Smith



wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:02:57 -0400, H the K
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). *I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. *Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. *Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.

I'm sure the women of america and their physicians will have a difficult
time deciding from one of your cheap rube goldberg substitutions for
standard mammography gear, and the non-mammographic research and devices
being developed at the reputable Dartmouth School of Medicine.

Probably similar to what Cardinal Bellarmine told Galileo.
Dartmouth being the Rome Church.

--Vic

A bite on an obvious troll.
--

John H

Halyards against masts(not shrouds), a noise I quickly stop hearing
although it drives others crazy. Most of the time you can minimize it
simply by pulling the halyard tight. I always forget to do this.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

Questions:

1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

That's a major part of it but the mechanical noise is also
significant.

2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

They seem to be showing up mostly on boats that do not have
permanently installed generators, no other pattern that I've seen. One
of the most annoying that we've encountered was on a 30 something
powerboat that was apparently running it for refrigeration. The boat
was on a mooring next to ours for several days and the generator was
being run more than half the time.

3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

No, a fair number of inboard sailboats also have them. They're OK if
used only for emergency charging or repairs.

4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Possibly but it's hard to say without some testing.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:


Questions:

1: Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

Just part of it. There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to
the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things.
There are harmonics elements thrown in too.
Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. That also limits
sound-deadening cowling.

2: Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually
space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents
it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least
resistance.

3: Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB
alts. 6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up
a bit. Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those
Honda gensets on boats.
Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put
to more use.

4: Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is
from the water and back pressure issues. Besides, that's only part of
the problem.

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. You might have a winner here. However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of
producing amps than the Honda gensets.
I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity,
or the mechanical engineering stuff.
Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an
attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C
in Florida or other hell hot places.

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

Cool. Good luck with that. Good to hear you got inspired by altruism
instead of money. Money usually follows anyway. Entrepreneurship
comes in all shapes.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it.
And like I said, it's surely been thought of before.
I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one.

--Vic

On Jul 13, 11:33*pm, Vic Smith
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:49:41 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
Questions:

1: *Is the noise of the honda due to its exhausting into air?

Just part of it. *There other mechanical noises, some no doubt due to
the high revs needed - not much low-end torque in these things.
There are harmonics elements thrown in too.
Biggest problem I see is that they are air-cooled. *That also limits
sound-deadening cowling.

2: *Dont people who use these already have a diesel engine that should
power their alternator (seems not to be the case).

Some with inboard diesels do heavier duty alt setups, but usually
space available and the amount of work involved in a hot hole prevents
it, so they end up with the Honda gensets as a path of least
resistance.

3: *Is it outboard powered sailboats that have these problematic
generators?

Not exclusively, but most OB powered sailboats are hampered by weak OB
alts. *6-10 amps max for the 10 hp range, and that's probably reved up
a bit. *Solar and wind can fill some gaps, but there are many of those
Honda gensets on boats.
Just seems that water-cooled powerhead on the OB can be put
to more use. *

4: *Would the problem be alleviated by exhausting into the water via a
water lift exhaust as most inboard diesels do?

Don't think it's practical due to the usual distance the genset is
from the water and back pressure issues. *Besides, that's only part of
the problem.

The most common sailboat outboard these days is the longshaft 9.9
Yamaha, a great motor. *Seems like the best option might be a
switchable alternator, high output for charging only and low output
for charging and powering the prop.
Could this be done by only changing the voltage regulator? *This
option might be a LOT cheaper than buying the Honda Gen.
Vic, this might be a good thing for you to pursue. *I am not too
familiar with modern voltage regulators or modern alternators but they
cannot be that complicated. *You might have a winner here. *However,
wouldnt you have to run the OB at slightly higher RPM than idle for
real charging?

No doubt, but it would still be considerably more quiet and capable of
producing amps than the Honda gensets.
I don't want to pursue this - don't know anything about electricity,
or the mechanical engineering stuff.
Just tossing it out because when I get a boat this would be an
attractive auxiliary, seeing as I might want to occasionally run A/C
in Florida or other hell hot places.

UNFORTUNATELY (fortunately from my employees perspective), I suddenly
came up with this idea for x-ray optics for mammography (now where'd
that come from). *I knew for awhile it might be possible but never
looked into it enough. *Now, I find there are roughly 10,000
mammography units in the USA each costing from $200,000 to $400,000.
If we could make these x-ray optics to be sold for $20,000 each, well,
$20,000 times 10,000 units is a big amount of money, enough to get
venture capital types interested. *Kinda looks as if my idle time will
be soon filled.
I vowed not to support Obamanomics but something like this is bigger
than politics if it gives far better contrast and much lower radiation
dose for mammographies.

Cool. *Good luck with that. *Good to hear you got inspired by altruism
instead of money. *Money usually follows anyway. *Entrepreneurship
comes in all shapes.

So, I highly reccomend YOU pursue this idea of the alternator. *Do NOT
furhter mention it here because you might be giving up patent rights.
If you need encouragement, e-mail me at ohara5.0#mindspring.com
(replace the # with @).

Thanks, but I'm too lazy to fool around with it.
And like I said, it's surely been thought of before.
I'll keep my good ideas secret - when I get one.

--Vic

Altruism? Whats that?