Capt. JG wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I find that
when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a clew if they
can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old Brother P-touch,
but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.

Jonathan


Check the 2009 West marine catalog page 682


Sail Control Labels $8.42

"cavelamb" wrote in message
news
Capt. JG wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I find
that when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a clew
if they can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old Brother
P-touch, but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.

Jonathan


Check the 2009 West marine catalog page 682


Sail Control Labels $8.42


Actually, great suggestion... they also sell Nash labels for even less.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:00:57 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:00:30 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"cavelamb" wrote in message
news:EpSdnSdoleRXlW_UnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink .com...
Capt. JG wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I find
that when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a clew
if they can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old
Brother
P-touch, but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.

Jonathan


On my new boat, the jib sheets are the same color - and so is the main
sheet!

D wanted me to replace them all with different colored ones like we had
on
the 18 so she could quickly find the right line.

While labels and colors may be helpful at first, I wonder if, in the
end,
the
practice is more restrictive than helpful.



I think you're right that in the end labels are more restrictive if one
relies on them... sometimes labels are wrong. :-)

I think colored lines are worth doing... it reinforces the right thing,
but
again, they need to be confirmed to actually mean something.

My first serious boat as a teenager was a very beat up Fying Dutchman.
Flying Dutchmans had so many lines, some folks described them as being
spaghetti factories. Since I was a broke teenager, all my lines were
the same color. It was the only color clothesline comes in. We quickly
learned to look where a line was headed to know what it was for.
Labels would have slowed the learning process, and things can happen
fast enough on a boat such as that, that you don't have time for
reading labels anyway.



Fortunately, my boat doesn't have a spaghetti wire of lines. I think it's
helpful, at least initially, for students to not be confused. This is
especially useful when I take charters with inexperienced but willing
people. In any case, I'm looking for a solution if you know of one...

Sorry, I am not that familiar with sailing on the short bus.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:00:57 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:00:30 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"cavelamb" wrote in message
news:EpSdnSdoleRXlW_UnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlin k.com...
Capt. JG wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I
find
that when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a
clew
if they can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old
Brother
P-touch, but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.

Jonathan


On my new boat, the jib sheets are the same color - and so is the main
sheet!

D wanted me to replace them all with different colored ones like we
had
on
the 18 so she could quickly find the right line.

While labels and colors may be helpful at first, I wonder if, in the
end,
the
practice is more restrictive than helpful.



I think you're right that in the end labels are more restrictive if one
relies on them... sometimes labels are wrong. :-)

I think colored lines are worth doing... it reinforces the right thing,
but
again, they need to be confirmed to actually mean something.

My first serious boat as a teenager was a very beat up Fying Dutchman.
Flying Dutchmans had so many lines, some folks described them as being
spaghetti factories. Since I was a broke teenager, all my lines were
the same color. It was the only color clothesline comes in. We quickly
learned to look where a line was headed to know what it was for.
Labels would have slowed the learning process, and things can happen
fast enough on a boat such as that, that you don't have time for
reading labels anyway.



Fortunately, my boat doesn't have a spaghetti wire of lines. I think it's
helpful, at least initially, for students to not be confused. This is
especially useful when I take charters with inexperienced but willing
people. In any case, I'm looking for a solution if you know of one...

Sorry, I am not that familiar with sailing on the short bus.



Short bus?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:27:12 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:00:57 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
news On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:00:30 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"cavelamb" wrote in message
news:EpSdnSdoleRXlW_UnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthli nk.com...
Capt. JG wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I
find
that when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a
clew
if they can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old
Brother
P-touch, but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.

Jonathan


On my new boat, the jib sheets are the same color - and so is the main
sheet!

D wanted me to replace them all with different colored ones like we
had
on
the 18 so she could quickly find the right line.

While labels and colors may be helpful at first, I wonder if, in the
end,
the
practice is more restrictive than helpful.



I think you're right that in the end labels are more restrictive if one
relies on them... sometimes labels are wrong. :-)

I think colored lines are worth doing... it reinforces the right thing,
but
again, they need to be confirmed to actually mean something.

My first serious boat as a teenager was a very beat up Fying Dutchman.
Flying Dutchmans had so many lines, some folks described them as being
spaghetti factories. Since I was a broke teenager, all my lines were
the same color. It was the only color clothesline comes in. We quickly
learned to look where a line was headed to know what it was for.
Labels would have slowed the learning process, and things can happen
fast enough on a boat such as that, that you don't have time for
reading labels anyway.



Fortunately, my boat doesn't have a spaghetti wire of lines. I think it's
helpful, at least initially, for students to not be confused. This is
especially useful when I take charters with inexperienced but willing
people. In any case, I'm looking for a solution if you know of one...

Sorry, I am not that familiar with sailing on the short bus.



Short bus?

Is there an echo in here?

On Apr 24, 11:29*am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I find that
when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a clew if they
can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old Brother P-touch,
but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.


As a current university faculty wich includes Employee Training &
Develpment among others.
Licensed state teacher K-8 (expired)
Former Marine Education Specialist
WOrking Able Seaman on a 1100 GRT vessel.

One of the difintions of COmmunication includes the tem, uncertainty
reduction. In someones words to meaning creation.
Learning theory is a mature body of literature. SOme belive there are
7 learning styles. THat means teachers need to creat lessons that use
each.
Jean Piaget says humans have 4 stages of cognative develpmment that
controll what can be learned at specific ages. So while one teaching
stratigy is effective on some learners it will fail with others.

SO to say what is the "best way" to teach is wrong on two levels.
First, its not, how to teach rather how do others learn. For example
some people are color blind so out goes your color code systm but
thats an over simplified analogy.
Second, im too tired to expain the other.
NOw I know there are a bunch of "traininers" and instructors of
"training the trainer" courses here who have memorized a few basich
learning concepts who will spout some form of , see one, do one teach
one or some other variation of telling and showing.

TO anser your questoin.......................... collored lines and
labled liines work wonderfully for some and fail for others. ONe thing
Ive learned in the GOM. unllicensed deckhands and 100 ton operators
have diffrent names for bits and tie-up lines from boat to boat. One
midship line was called the "garbage can" bit/line cause that what was
next to the bit. Was I surprised my first day when he told me to
start with the garbage can line???

Communicatoin = reduction of uncertainty and meaning creation.

IN conclussion,
color code lines
lable with names/placard
draw a schematic
sing about them
watch a move about them
rig a model boat
touch each line
there are a few others but i think you get the idea.

Bob-Sensei, AB

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 00:38:57 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Apr 24, 11:29*am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I find that
when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a clew if they
can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old Brother P-touch,
but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.


As a current university faculty wich includes Employee Training &
Develpment among others.
Licensed state teacher K-8 (expired)
Former Marine Education Specialist
WOrking Able Seaman on a 1100 GRT vessel.

One of the difintions of COmmunication includes the tem, uncertainty
reduction. In someones words to meaning creation.
Learning theory is a mature body of literature. SOme belive there are
7 learning styles. THat means teachers need to creat lessons that use
each.
Jean Piaget says humans have 4 stages of cognative develpmment that
controll what can be learned at specific ages. So while one teaching
stratigy is effective on some learners it will fail with others.

SO to say what is the "best way" to teach is wrong on two levels.
First, its not, how to teach rather how do others learn. For example
some people are color blind so out goes your color code systm but
thats an over simplified analogy.
Second, im too tired to expain the other.
NOw I know there are a bunch of "traininers" and instructors of
"training the trainer" courses here who have memorized a few basich
learning concepts who will spout some form of , see one, do one teach
one or some other variation of telling and showing.

TO anser your questoin.......................... collored lines and
labled liines work wonderfully for some and fail for others. ONe thing
Ive learned in the GOM. unllicensed deckhands and 100 ton operators
have diffrent names for bits and tie-up lines from boat to boat. One
midship line was called the "garbage can" bit/line cause that what was
next to the bit. Was I surprised my first day when he told me to
start with the garbage can line???

Communicatoin = reduction of uncertainty and meaning creation.

IN conclussion,
color code lines
lable with names/placard
draw a schematic
sing about them
watch a move about them
rig a model boat
touch each line
there are a few others but i think you get the idea.

Bob-Sensei, AB

One major problem, that you missed completely, Bob.

If you teach someone the ropes using color codes or labels, you are
only teaching them to sail THAT boat. They will be lost on any other
boat, because the lines will be different colors, or therv will be no
labels. They might even have labels, but with slightly ifferent names.
Give a man a fish... You know the rest.

Teach them based on the function of the line and it's route, and they
will then REALLY know the ropes in a way they can use on other boats.
It might also teach them a new way to learn things on their own by
using observation and judgement to figure things out.

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 00:38:57 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Apr 24, 11:29 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I find that
when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a clew if they
can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old Brother P-touch,
but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.

As a current university faculty wich includes Employee Training &
Develpment among others.
Licensed state teacher K-8 (expired)
Former Marine Education Specialist
WOrking Able Seaman on a 1100 GRT vessel.

One of the difintions of COmmunication includes the tem, uncertainty
reduction. In someones words to meaning creation.
Learning theory is a mature body of literature. SOme belive there are
7 learning styles. THat means teachers need to creat lessons that use
each.
Jean Piaget says humans have 4 stages of cognative develpmment that
controll what can be learned at specific ages. So while one teaching
stratigy is effective on some learners it will fail with others.

SO to say what is the "best way" to teach is wrong on two levels.
First, its not, how to teach rather how do others learn. For example
some people are color blind so out goes your color code systm but
thats an over simplified analogy.
Second, im too tired to expain the other.
NOw I know there are a bunch of "traininers" and instructors of
"training the trainer" courses here who have memorized a few basich
learning concepts who will spout some form of , see one, do one teach
one or some other variation of telling and showing.

TO anser your questoin.......................... collored lines and
labled liines work wonderfully for some and fail for others. ONe thing
Ive learned in the GOM. unllicensed deckhands and 100 ton operators
have diffrent names for bits and tie-up lines from boat to boat. One
midship line was called the "garbage can" bit/line cause that what was
next to the bit. Was I surprised my first day when he told me to
start with the garbage can line???

Communicatoin = reduction of uncertainty and meaning creation.

IN conclussion,
color code lines
lable with names/placard
draw a schematic
sing about them
watch a move about them
rig a model boat
touch each line
there are a few others but i think you get the idea.

Bob-Sensei, AB

One major problem, that you missed completely, Bob.

If you teach someone the ropes using color codes or labels, you are
only teaching them to sail THAT boat. They will be lost on any other
boat, because the lines will be different colors, or therv will be no
labels. They might even have labels, but with slightly ifferent names.
Give a man a fish... You know the rest.

Teach them based on the function of the line and it's route, and they
will then REALLY know the ropes in a way they can use on other boats.
It might also teach them a new way to learn things on their own by
using observation and judgement to figure things out.



Total nonsense.

If you want to encourage someone to learn more about sailing, you should
make it as easy as possible to use the lines. Or perhaps you think
releasing the halyard when you intended to ease the Cunningham would be
a useful learning experience. While its true that some people will want
to learn the meaning of each line, the vast majority would think that
unlabeled lines are too risky to event try to sort out.

Of course, if your goal is to ensure only those who are "worthy" are
allowed to sail, then we should require that they be able to name every
line on a full rigged ship before coming on board. Navigating in the
fog with only a lead line and chip log should be a prerequisite for
owning a GPS.

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:01:31 -0400, jeff wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 00:38:57 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

On Apr 24, 11:29 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
Do any of use labels for items like mainsheet, traveller, etc.? I find that
when I'm teaching it's easier for beginning students to get a clew if they
can read what's in front of them. I've been using my old Brother P-touch,
but the labels fade pretty quickly. Suggestions welcome.

As a current university faculty wich includes Employee Training &
Develpment among others.
Licensed state teacher K-8 (expired)
Former Marine Education Specialist
WOrking Able Seaman on a 1100 GRT vessel.

One of the difintions of COmmunication includes the tem, uncertainty
reduction. In someones words to meaning creation.
Learning theory is a mature body of literature. SOme belive there are
7 learning styles. THat means teachers need to creat lessons that use
each.
Jean Piaget says humans have 4 stages of cognative develpmment that
controll what can be learned at specific ages. So while one teaching
stratigy is effective on some learners it will fail with others.

SO to say what is the "best way" to teach is wrong on two levels.
First, its not, how to teach rather how do others learn. For example
some people are color blind so out goes your color code systm but
thats an over simplified analogy.
Second, im too tired to expain the other.
NOw I know there are a bunch of "traininers" and instructors of
"training the trainer" courses here who have memorized a few basich
learning concepts who will spout some form of , see one, do one teach
one or some other variation of telling and showing.

TO anser your questoin.......................... collored lines and
labled liines work wonderfully for some and fail for others. ONe thing
Ive learned in the GOM. unllicensed deckhands and 100 ton operators
have diffrent names for bits and tie-up lines from boat to boat. One
midship line was called the "garbage can" bit/line cause that what was
next to the bit. Was I surprised my first day when he told me to
start with the garbage can line???

Communicatoin = reduction of uncertainty and meaning creation.

IN conclussion,
color code lines
lable with names/placard
draw a schematic
sing about them
watch a move about them
rig a model boat
touch each line
there are a few others but i think you get the idea.

Bob-Sensei, AB

One major problem, that you missed completely, Bob.

If you teach someone the ropes using color codes or labels, you are
only teaching them to sail THAT boat. They will be lost on any other
boat, because the lines will be different colors, or therv will be no
labels. They might even have labels, but with slightly ifferent names.
Give a man a fish... You know the rest.

Teach them based on the function of the line and it's route, and they
will then REALLY know the ropes in a way they can use on other boats.
It might also teach them a new way to learn things on their own by
using observation and judgement to figure things out.



Total nonsense.

If you want to encourage someone to learn more about sailing, you should
make it as easy as possible to use the lines. Or perhaps you think
releasing the halyard when you intended to ease the Cunningham would be
a useful learning experience. While its true that some people will want
to learn the meaning of each line, the vast majority would think that
unlabeled lines are too risky to event try to sort out.

Of course, if your goal is to ensure only those who are "worthy" are
allowed to sail, then we should require that they be able to name every
line on a full rigged ship before coming on board. Navigating in the
fog with only a lead line and chip log should be a prerequisite for
owning a GPS.


Total hyperbolic baloney, Jeff. You sound like a hysterical girl.

Teach the lines a few at a time. Start with the most basic ones. Start
with the main halyard, and main sheets. No one needs to know a barber
haul from a foreguy from a Cunningham until later on. Much later on,
for many people, who may never own a boat that includes them.

Musical analogy: Learn to play a C major scale before you start to
worry about flats and sharps, much less pentatonic, myxolydian and
Phrygian scales.

Teaching someone to read labels is not teaching them anything about
sailing. Jon's students will realize that when they try to sail a boat
that Jon hasn't "baby proofed".

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 09:55:34 -0400, wrote:

Teaching someone to read labels is not teaching them anything about
sailing. Jon's students will realize that when they try to sail a boat
that Jon hasn't "baby proofed".

In the end it all comes down to your objectives. If you want to
train people quickly to do a specific job on a specific boat, color
coding and labels are the way to go. If you want people to react
quickly and accurately on a specific boat, color coding and labels are
the way to go.

All other situations fall into the category of theoretical learning
which is fine for building a long term understanding of the principles
involved, but not very useful for quick, accurate execution by a team
doing split second maneuvers. Successful racing boats have been color
coding and labeling for many years. It works very well and helps to
keep everything sorted out. Without it, the cockpit on most boats
quickly resembles a large bowl of pasta.