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my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message ng.com... Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. |
my next dream boat...
"Edgar" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message ng.com... Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I've always understood a swing keel as the as the type that is drawn in a arc (pivoting on a pin at the top) into a trunk, either under the boat or inside the cabin as in the Freedoms. But then, I could have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now! I beleive the term for a type you describe that pivots side to side is "Canting Ballast". |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message ng.com... "Mark Borgerson" wrote in message g... In article , says... Don White wrote: "mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? The advantage of the swing keel in a smaller sailboat, besides sailing in shallow waters, is the ability to easily launch/retrieve & tow. With a 36 boat, I'd be more concerned about stability in heavy seas... so I'd stick with a fixed keel. regardless of what it does to windward performance... Until you get into the classes like the America's Cup yachts, with their tilting keels, doesn't a fixed keel improve windward performance? Mark Borgerson A fixed fin keel offers more lateral resistance than a swing keel but a swing keel will generally out perform a full or 3/4 keel. I shouldn't have made that blanket statement which would not apply to all long or swing keels. Excuse my lack of thought before posting? |
my next dream boat...
"Mark Borgerson" wrote in message g... In article om, says... "Capt. JG" wrote in message easolutions... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? Not sure if you're interested, but I saw this on a newsletter I get. FOR SALE Freedom 35 'Solo' (12/2008) Built by Tillotson & Pearson, USA, 1983. Major refit 1999/2000. Carbon Fibre freestanding masts with fully battened ketch rig. Ideal Bluewater cruiser with the advantage of a doghouse for UK type weather. New sails, new engine 2006. Ashore Plymouth UK. £44,000. Full details, photos at www.petrockstowe.co.uk/solo -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com What the heck, while I'm dreaming of buying one, might as well as dream about sailing it back from the UK! Maybe smuggle some good beer back too....... You think it would survive the trip? The mandatory quality-control sampling, to check for damage from motion and temperature, might leave little in hand at the end of the trip on a 35' boat. ;-) Mark Borgerson Good point - might have to get rid of it enroute! |
my next dream boat...
In article , Edgar wrote:
For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. I think you'll find that is called "canting". Swing tends to be in a fore-aft direction; forward is down, wind the rope/cable and it rise aftward into a casing. Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
my next dream boat...
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:43:05 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote: To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. No, what you describe is called a "canting keel", expensive and very rare. A swing keel is really a centerboard that pivots fore and aft. |
my next dream boat...
In article , cavelamb wrote:
When Brian A. Lewis of Seattle tried to sell his boat, Jubilee, no one would pay his asking price of $28,500. Mr. Lewis told police investigators that maintaining the boat caused “extreme anxiety,” which led him to him drill a two-inch hole in Jubilee’s hull last March. Jeebus, the mind absolutely boggles. REDUCE THE PRICE! There are some of us who'd bite the hand off these people. I'm not a poor man, but neither am I that wealthy that I can afford the boat of my dreams. At the moment I'm looking for a boat, and my budget is about $17k (12k of our British pounds). There's not an awful lot you can get this side of the pond for that money. I can understand that people don't want to make a loss on these things, but surely it's better to get *some* money for a boat than lose it and gain a criminal record? What is happening to these boats abandoned in the US? Are salvage companies taking them and re-selling them? Are they being scrapped? What is the law regarding finding an abandoned boat - especially one with it's identification erased? Are there cherries to be found in the everglades?! Should I come for a holiday in the hope of finding something? Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message ng.com... "Edgar" wrote in message I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I've always understood a swing keel as the as the type that is drawn in a arc (pivoting on a pin at the top) into a trunk, either under the boat or inside the cabin as in the Freedoms. But then, I could have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now! I beleive the term for a type you describe that pivots side to side is "Canting Ballast". Ah yes. We are talking about the same thing, which I call a centreboard. That is surely the right way to go if you want shallow water capability with good windward performance when depth of water allows. Never heard the term 'canting ballast' although once heard it is self explanatory, but that is what I have always regarded as a 'swing keel'. |
my next dream boat...
wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:17:03 -0400, "mmc" wrote: "Edgar" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message ng.com... Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I've always understood a swing keel as the as the type that is drawn in a arc (pivoting on a pin at the top) into a trunk, either under the boat or inside the cabin as in the Freedoms. But then, I could have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now! I beleive the term for a type you describe that pivots side to side is "Canting Ballast". I've always thought of a swing keel as being a centerboard that is also substantial ballast. Yes, some are and some are not heavy. I have raced dinghies with cb's weighing almost 200 pounds and others where the cb was plywood for lightness with a slug of lead cast in to ensure it stayed down. |
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