| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
my next dream boat...
is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness
(is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in news:49d230de$0$4893
: What do you guys think? Isn't it fun to dream? I sail on an old Sharki 41 out of Charleston. I've had the pleasure of sailing on the Amel 54 they make now. http://www.amel.fr/ put your mouse on "La Gamme" and click Amel 54, the only one they make, now. Click the Video, sit back and enjoy...... It IS fun to dream......(c;] You can go to France and watch them make yours......(sigh) |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in news:49d230de$0$4893
: What do you guys think? http://www.caraibe-yachts.com/en/sec...t=Amel+54+2007 Isn't it amazing what 3/4 of a million Euros can buy? |
my next dream boat...
On Mar 31, 12:29 pm, Larry wrote:
"mmc" wrote in news:49d230de$0$4893 : What do you guys think? http://www.caraibe-yachts.com/en/sec...t=Amel+54+2007 Isn't it amazing what 3/4 of a million Euros can buy? I once chartered a Freedom 33 with swing keel and did not like it. The swing keel was a bear to winch up or let down. Sail handling also seemed difficult for some reason but my impression was that it was due to poor maintenance. I believe that if the boat was well maintained our charter would have gone much better. |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? The advantage of the swing keel in a smaller sailboat, besides sailing in shallow waters, is the ability to easily launch/retrieve & tow. With a 36 boat, I'd be more concerned about stability in heavy seas... so I'd stick with a fixed keel. |
my next dream boat...
Don White wrote:
"mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? The advantage of the swing keel in a smaller sailboat, besides sailing in shallow waters, is the ability to easily launch/retrieve & tow. With a 36 boat, I'd be more concerned about stability in heavy seas... so I'd stick with a fixed keel. regardless of what it does to windward performance... |
my next dream boat...
In article , cavelamb wrote:
Don White wrote: [snip] I'd stick with a fixed keel. regardless of what it does to windward performance... I beg your pudding? Please support that or correct it, otherwise I'm flummoxed. Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
my next dream boat...
|
my next dream boat...
|
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in
g.com: is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? I'd suggest that you go to http://www.FreedomYachts.org/ and ask any questions that you may have. You'll get much more detailed answers than you'll get in here. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org |
my next dream boat...
On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:05:39 -0700, Mark Borgerson
wrote: Until you get into the classes like the America's Cup yachts, with their tilting keels, doesn't a fixed keel improve windward performance? The problem arises when you sail in an area with a lot of shallow water. The swing keel is a compromise but it will give you better performance than a shallow fixed keel. |
my next dream boat...
Here is a sad story!
Boats Too Costly to Keep Are Littering Coastlines http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/bu...s.html?_r=1&hp They often sandpaper over the names and file off the registry numbers, doing their best to render the boats, and themselves, untraceable. Then they casually ditch the vessels in the middle of busy harbors, beach them at low tide on the banks of creeks or occasionally scuttle them outright. The bad economy is creating a flotilla of forsaken boats. While there is no national census of abandoned boats, officials in coastal states are worried the problem will only grow worse as unemployment and financial stress continue to rise. Several states are even drafting laws against derelicts and say they are aggressively starting to pursue delinquent owners. “Our waters have become dumping grounds,” said Maj. Paul R. Ouellette of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. “It’s got to the point where something has to be done.” Derelict boats are environmental and navigational hazards, leaking toxins and posing obstacles for other craft, especially at night. Thieves plunder them for scrap metal. In a storm, these runabouts and sailboats, cruisers and houseboats can break free or break up, causing havoc. Some of those disposing of their boats are in the same bind as overstretched homeowners: they face steep payments on an asset that is diminishing in value and decide not to continue. They either default on the debt or take bolder measures. Marina and maritime officials around the country say they believe, however, that most of the abandoned vessels cluttering their waters are fully paid for. They are expensive-to-maintain toys that have lost their appeal. The owners cannot sell them, because the secondhand market is overwhelmed. They cannot afford to spend hundreds of dollars a month mooring and maintaining them. And they do not have the thousands of dollars required to properly dispose of them. When Brian A. Lewis of Seattle tried to sell his boat, Jubilee, no one would pay his asking price of $28,500. Mr. Lewis told police investigators that maintaining the boat caused “extreme anxiety,” which led him to him drill a two-inch hole in Jubilee’s hull last March. The boat sank in Puget Sound, and Mr. Lewis informed his insurance company it was an accident. His scheme came undone when the state, seeking to prevent environmental damage, raised Jubilee. Mr. Lewis pleaded guilty last week to insurance fraud. While there are no reliable national statistics on boating fraud, Todd Schwede, an insurance investigator in San Diego, said the number of suspicious cases he was handling had roughly tripled in the last year, to around 70. In many cases, he said, the boater is following this logic: “I am overinsured on this boat. If I make it go away so no one will find it, the insurance company will give me enough to cover the debt and I’ll make something on the deal as well.” Lt. David Dipre, who coordinates Florida’s derelict vessel program, said the handful of owners he had managed to track down were guilty more of negligence than fraud. “They say, ‘I had a dream of sailing around the world, I just never got around to it.’ Then they have some bad times and they leave it to someone else to clean up the mess,” Lieutenant Dipre said. Florida officials say they are moving more aggressively to track down owners and are also starting to unclog the local inlets, harbors, swamps and rivers. The state appropriated funds to remove 118 derelicts this summer, up from only a handful last year. In South Carolina, four government investigators started canvassing the state’s waterways in January. They quickly identified 150 likely derelicts. “There are a lot more than we thought there would be,” said Lt. Robert McCullough of the state Department of Natural Resources. “There were a few boats that have always been there, and now all of a sudden they’ve added up and added up.” In January, it became illegal in South Carolina to abandon a boat on a public waterway. Violators can be fined $5,000 and jailed for 30 days. “We never needed a law before,” said Gary Santos, a Mount Pleasant councilman. Not that having one is necessarily proving much of a deterrent. Mr. Santos took a spin on a friend’s motorboat the other day and saw a newly abandoned catamaran within seconds of leaving the dock. It had been run aground at an awkward angle, a weathered “for sale” sign testament to the owner’s inability to get rid of it. Local watermen said the boat had abruptly appeared one day in February, and had not been touched in weeks. “Boats are luxuries,” Mr. Santos said. “This isn’t a good moment for luxuries.” South Carolina’s unemployment rate in February was 11 percent, the second-highest in the nation after Michigan. The online classified ad service Craigslist in Charleston, S.C., features dozens of boats for sale every day. “Wife’s employer is downsizing and we are forced to do the same,” read one post. Mr. Santos, 50, grew up in this well-to-do community on the northern side of Charleston harbor. In his youth, he never saw an abandoned boat. As recently as a decade ago, they were no more than an occasional nuisance. Now they are proliferating. Crab Bank, a protected bird rookery in the harbor within sight of Fort Sumter, is home to a dozen derelicts — two sunken, two beached, the other eight still afloat. They range from houseboats to a two-masted sailboat. State officers have placed placards on each, warning that the vessels have been identified as abandoned. Thanks to a local ordinance sponsored by Mr. Santos, the Mount Pleasant police are also tagging the vessels. After 45 days, they will be removed and junked. California is taking a more benign approach, with plans in the legislature for a boater bailout of sorts. Under a law proposed by state Representative Ted Lieu, owners of marginally seaworthy vessels would be encouraged to surrender them to the state. If they abandoned the boat anyway, the bill would double the fine to $1,000. The legislature passed the bill last year, but Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger returned it and many others unsigned during the state’s long struggle to settle on a budget. The measure has been reintroduced this year, and unanimously passed the assembly’s transportation committee last week and could become law as early as this summer. Kevin Ketchum, general manager of California Yacht Marina, which operates six marinas in the state, predicted that the law “is going to be phenomenally popular. It will help honorable people who want to do the right thing but can’t afford it.” The cost of the disposals would be paid by existing fees on boat owners. Representative Lieu said that “in a perfect world” the fear of punishment would be enough to get people to stop abandoning their boats. “But to actually enforce that would take way more governmental resources than we have,” he said. |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message
g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? Not sure if you're interested, but I saw this on a newsletter I get. FOR SALE Freedom 35 'Solo' (12/2008) Built by Tillotson & Pearson, USA, 1983. Major refit 1999/2000. Carbon Fibre freestanding masts with fully battened ketch rig. Ideal Bluewater cruiser with the advantage of a doghouse for UK type weather. New sails, new engine 2006. Ashore Plymouth UK. £44,000. Full details, photos at www.petrockstowe.co.uk/solo -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
my next dream boat...
"Don White" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? The advantage of the swing keel in a smaller sailboat, besides sailing in shallow waters, is the ability to easily launch/retrieve & tow. With a 36 boat, I'd be more concerned about stability in heavy seas... so I'd stick with a fixed keel. I'd be sailing the boat in the skinny waters of the Indian River Lagoon and the Keys. Occasional trip to the Bahamas which would be planned around the weather so a shallower (3'6" w/board up) draft would be better for me. I rather be gunkholing! The 33 has an 11'6 beam and 7 ton displacement so I wouldn't be treating it like a trailer sailor ;-) |
my next dream boat...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 16:05:39 -0700, Mark Borgerson wrote: Until you get into the classes like the America's Cup yachts, with their tilting keels, doesn't a fixed keel improve windward performance? The problem arises when you sail in an area with a lot of shallow water. The swing keel is a compromise but it will give you better performance than a shallow fixed keel. Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. |
my next dream boat...
"cavelamb" wrote in message m... Here is a sad story! Boats Too Costly to Keep Are Littering Coastlines http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/bu...s.html?_r=1&hp Add the pressures of home owners groups to outlaw anchorages to the expense of dock space and we're going to see a much bigger problem in FL that we have now. |
my next dream boat...
"Capt. JG" wrote in message easolutions... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? Not sure if you're interested, but I saw this on a newsletter I get. FOR SALE Freedom 35 'Solo' (12/2008) Built by Tillotson & Pearson, USA, 1983. Major refit 1999/2000. Carbon Fibre freestanding masts with fully battened ketch rig. Ideal Bluewater cruiser with the advantage of a doghouse for UK type weather. New sails, new engine 2006. Ashore Plymouth UK. £44,000. Full details, photos at www.petrockstowe.co.uk/solo -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com What the heck, while I'm dreaming of buying one, might as well as dream about sailing it back from the UK! Maybe smuggle some good beer back too....... |
my next dream boat...
"Larry" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in news:49d230de$0$4893 : What do you guys think? http://www.caraibe-yachts.com/en/sec...t=Amel+54+2007 Isn't it amazing what 3/4 of a million Euros can buy? Holy cow Batman! If I had that kind of scratch, I'd buy the Freedom 33 and hide the other $700k+ under my mattress! The lump probably wouldn't do for my back an favors. |
my next dream boat...
"Larry" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in news:49d230de$0$4893 : What do you guys think? Isn't it fun to dream? I sail on an old Sharki 41 out of Charleston. I've had the pleasure of sailing on the Amel 54 they make now. http://www.amel.fr/ put your mouse on "La Gamme" and click Amel 54, the only one they make, now. Click the Video, sit back and enjoy...... It IS fun to dream......(c;] You can go to France and watch them make yours......(sigh) We met a couple from the RAF Yacht Club that had a Amel. What a beautiful boat. |
my next dream boat...
In article om,
says... "Capt. JG" wrote in message easolutions... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? Not sure if you're interested, but I saw this on a newsletter I get. FOR SALE Freedom 35 'Solo' (12/2008) Built by Tillotson & Pearson, USA, 1983. Major refit 1999/2000. Carbon Fibre freestanding masts with fully battened ketch rig. Ideal Bluewater cruiser with the advantage of a doghouse for UK type weather. New sails, new engine 2006. Ashore Plymouth UK. £44,000. Full details, photos at www.petrockstowe.co.uk/solo -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com What the heck, while I'm dreaming of buying one, might as well as dream about sailing it back from the UK! Maybe smuggle some good beer back too....... You think it would survive the trip? The mandatory quality-control sampling, to check for damage from motion and temperature, might leave little in hand at the end of the trip on a 35' boat. ;-) Mark Borgerson |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message ng.com... Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. |
my next dream boat...
"Edgar" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message ng.com... Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I've always understood a swing keel as the as the type that is drawn in a arc (pivoting on a pin at the top) into a trunk, either under the boat or inside the cabin as in the Freedoms. But then, I could have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now! I beleive the term for a type you describe that pivots side to side is "Canting Ballast". |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message ng.com... "Mark Borgerson" wrote in message g... In article , says... Don White wrote: "mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? The advantage of the swing keel in a smaller sailboat, besides sailing in shallow waters, is the ability to easily launch/retrieve & tow. With a 36 boat, I'd be more concerned about stability in heavy seas... so I'd stick with a fixed keel. regardless of what it does to windward performance... Until you get into the classes like the America's Cup yachts, with their tilting keels, doesn't a fixed keel improve windward performance? Mark Borgerson A fixed fin keel offers more lateral resistance than a swing keel but a swing keel will generally out perform a full or 3/4 keel. I shouldn't have made that blanket statement which would not apply to all long or swing keels. Excuse my lack of thought before posting? |
my next dream boat...
"Mark Borgerson" wrote in message g... In article om, says... "Capt. JG" wrote in message easolutions... "mmc" wrote in message g.com... is a Freedom 33 Cat Ketch. I like the semi-traditional look, the uniqueness (is this a word?) of the cat ketch rig in a (more) modern yachts and, from following the Yahoo owners group, the dedication displayed by the owners for these boats. I like the 36 too but not real fond of the big bump out in the cockpit created by the aft cabin. We (the family and I) enjoy a large(r) cockpit and this arrangement wouldn't work for us. I'd like a shoal draft/swing keel but like the openess of the cabin with the fixed keel (swing keel version has the trunk bisecting the salon), but can't have everything so probably settle for the fixed keel. I've seen other more recent cat ketches but most look like most other modern boats that just happen to have this rig, almost as an after thought while the Freedoms maintain some of the "chunkyness" of the old cat boats. Not looking for screaming speed or to wow the dock walkers, but more the comfort, design, ease of use and style of these boats. Just trying to start a boat/cruising related discussion. What do you guys think? Not sure if you're interested, but I saw this on a newsletter I get. FOR SALE Freedom 35 'Solo' (12/2008) Built by Tillotson & Pearson, USA, 1983. Major refit 1999/2000. Carbon Fibre freestanding masts with fully battened ketch rig. Ideal Bluewater cruiser with the advantage of a doghouse for UK type weather. New sails, new engine 2006. Ashore Plymouth UK. £44,000. Full details, photos at www.petrockstowe.co.uk/solo -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com What the heck, while I'm dreaming of buying one, might as well as dream about sailing it back from the UK! Maybe smuggle some good beer back too....... You think it would survive the trip? The mandatory quality-control sampling, to check for damage from motion and temperature, might leave little in hand at the end of the trip on a 35' boat. ;-) Mark Borgerson Good point - might have to get rid of it enroute! |
my next dream boat...
In article , Edgar wrote:
For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. I think you'll find that is called "canting". Swing tends to be in a fore-aft direction; forward is down, wind the rope/cable and it rise aftward into a casing. Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
my next dream boat...
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:43:05 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote: To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. No, what you describe is called a "canting keel", expensive and very rare. A swing keel is really a centerboard that pivots fore and aft. |
my next dream boat...
In article , cavelamb wrote:
When Brian A. Lewis of Seattle tried to sell his boat, Jubilee, no one would pay his asking price of $28,500. Mr. Lewis told police investigators that maintaining the boat caused “extreme anxiety,” which led him to him drill a two-inch hole in Jubilee’s hull last March. Jeebus, the mind absolutely boggles. REDUCE THE PRICE! There are some of us who'd bite the hand off these people. I'm not a poor man, but neither am I that wealthy that I can afford the boat of my dreams. At the moment I'm looking for a boat, and my budget is about $17k (12k of our British pounds). There's not an awful lot you can get this side of the pond for that money. I can understand that people don't want to make a loss on these things, but surely it's better to get *some* money for a boat than lose it and gain a criminal record? What is happening to these boats abandoned in the US? Are salvage companies taking them and re-selling them? Are they being scrapped? What is the law regarding finding an abandoned boat - especially one with it's identification erased? Are there cherries to be found in the everglades?! Should I come for a holiday in the hope of finding something? Justin. -- Justin C, by the sea. |
my next dream boat...
"mmc" wrote in message ng.com... "Edgar" wrote in message I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I've always understood a swing keel as the as the type that is drawn in a arc (pivoting on a pin at the top) into a trunk, either under the boat or inside the cabin as in the Freedoms. But then, I could have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now! I beleive the term for a type you describe that pivots side to side is "Canting Ballast". Ah yes. We are talking about the same thing, which I call a centreboard. That is surely the right way to go if you want shallow water capability with good windward performance when depth of water allows. Never heard the term 'canting ballast' although once heard it is self explanatory, but that is what I have always regarded as a 'swing keel'. |
my next dream boat...
wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:17:03 -0400, "mmc" wrote: "Edgar" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message ng.com... Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I've always understood a swing keel as the as the type that is drawn in a arc (pivoting on a pin at the top) into a trunk, either under the boat or inside the cabin as in the Freedoms. But then, I could have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now! I beleive the term for a type you describe that pivots side to side is "Canting Ballast". I've always thought of a swing keel as being a centerboard that is also substantial ballast. Yes, some are and some are not heavy. I have raced dinghies with cb's weighing almost 200 pounds and others where the cb was plywood for lightness with a slug of lead cast in to ensure it stayed down. |
my next dream boat...
Justin C wrote:
In article , cavelamb wrote: When Brian A. Lewis of Seattle tried to sell his boat, Jubilee, no one would pay his asking price of $28,500. Mr. Lewis told police investigators that maintaining the boat caused “extreme anxiety,” which led him to him drill a two-inch hole in Jubilee’s hull last March. Jeebus, the mind absolutely boggles. REDUCE THE PRICE! There are some of us who'd bite the hand off these people. I'm not a poor man, but neither am I that wealthy that I can afford the boat of my dreams. At the moment I'm looking for a boat, and my budget is about $17k (12k of our British pounds). There's not an awful lot you can get this side of the pond for that money. I can understand that people don't want to make a loss on these things, but surely it's better to get *some* money for a boat than lose it and gain a criminal record? What is happening to these boats abandoned in the US? Are salvage companies taking them and re-selling them? Are they being scrapped? What is the law regarding finding an abandoned boat - especially one with it's identification erased? Are there cherries to be found in the everglades?! Should I come for a holiday in the hope of finding something? Justin. My wild guess would be that they are going to be considered salvage. Wish I were there and had a good sized tug handy! |
my next dream boat...
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:36:01 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:17:03 -0400, "mmc" wrote: "Edgar" wrote in message ... "mmc" wrote in message ng.com... Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, where (as I'm sure you know), except for a few spots in our area, sailing is pretty much restricted to the ICW channel for boats with more than 4' draft. These open areas are mostly deep enough but I've done my share of sandbar hopping on a friends 27 Hunter with 4'2" draft. There's the ocean too, but we're about 5 boat hours from the inlet which doesn't allow for "just hop on the boat" outings. For shallow water I think that a centreboard is best if you want a boat that can go well to windward when there is sufficient depth and yet go into shallow water with the keel up. I don't understand your preference for swing keel in shallow water, unless we are not talking about the same thing. To me, a swing keel is what the deep ocean racers have, with a heavy bulb at the bottom that can be swung to one side to provide better stiffness on a long tack. In restricted shallow water that would be useless since when you tack there would be insufficient water to swing the keel down and hoist it up the other side. We're talking about the same thing. I've always understood a swing keel as the as the type that is drawn in a arc (pivoting on a pin at the top) into a trunk, either under the boat or inside the cabin as in the Freedoms. But then, I could have been using the wrong terminology for a long time now! I beleive the term for a type you describe that pivots side to side is "Canting Ballast". I've always thought of a swing keel as being a centerboard that is also substantial ballast. Yes, some are and some are not heavy. I have raced dinghies with cb's weighing almost 200 pounds and others where the cb was plywood for lightness with a slug of lead cast in to ensure it stayed down. If the purpose is just to present a surface, then it's a centerboard. If the purpose is also to provide substantial ballast similar to what a fixed keel would offer, then it's a swing keel. Two different animals. |
my next dream boat...
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:41:29 -0400, "mmc" wrote:
Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, Do you happen to know the best spot to watch a shuttle launch from a boat with 5 1/2 ft draft? I'd really like to get over there for a launch one of these days. |
my next dream boat...
|
my next dream boat...
My chrysler C-22 is a swing keel, also a dream boat for me . seems
like the perfect sailboat for someone gettingt back into it. I like the ideal/versitality of it will be great for playing at the local lakes and when I'm ready for the big pond It sould be good for short hops. Mario If the purpose is just to present a surface, then it's a centerboard. If the purpose is also to provide substantial ballast similar to what a fixed keel would offer, then it's a swing keel. Two different animals.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
my next dream boat...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:41:29 -0400, "mmc" wrote: Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, Do you happen to know the best spot to watch a shuttle launch from a boat with 5 1/2 ft draft? I'd really like to get over there for a launch one of these days. Any closer than 10 mile would be too close. Besides the beating from the overpressure, the authorities would run you out anyway. |
my next dream boat...
On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 19:23:57 -0000, Justin C
wrote: I can understand that people don't want to make a loss on these things, but surely it's better to get *some* money for a boat than lose it and gain a criminal record? Crims think they will get away with it. Many do. Look at Wall Street. --Vic |
my next dream boat...
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:41:29 -0400, "mmc" wrote: Agreed. Shallow water is the reason for my preference of a swing keel. I'm just off the Indian River Lagoon, Do you happen to know the best spot to watch a shuttle launch from a boat with 5 1/2 ft draft? I'd really like to get over there for a launch one of these days. Just North of the locks at Port Canaveral are a series of spoil islands and the third one (heading North) has deep water on it's South side. Good place for raft ups as the island usually has enough beach for a bond fire and a bunch of people hanging out. Oops, just checked it out on Google Earth and it looks like the beach was gone when the photos were done which I think would have been 2005. I don't think it's in the security zone for launches but it might be. Another, and probably better place to watch a launch would be Titusville City Marina. You could anchor off if there are no slips available and dinghy to the marina. If you decide to do it let me know and if I'm in town, I'll buy you a beer. Just on the mainland side of the NASA causeway is Spaceport Florida, which is pretty interesting and at the other end is the KSC visitor center and if you're into the space program it's worth the trip. Tons (lots of tons) of rockets and such, also I beleive they do a bus tour of the space center. Used to work at Cape Canaveral AFS so I got to see all that stuff for free. |
my next dream boat...
On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 19:51:46 -0400, "mmc" wrote:
Do you happen to know the best spot to watch a shuttle launch from a boat with 5 1/2 ft draft? I'd really like to get over there for a launch one of these days. Just North of the locks at Port Canaveral are a series of spoil islands and the third one (heading North) has deep water on it's South side. Good place for raft ups as the island usually has enough beach for a bond fire and a bunch of people hanging out. Oops, just checked it out on Google Earth and it looks like the beach was gone when the photos were done which I think would have been 2005. I don't think it's in the security zone for launches but it might be. Another, and probably better place to watch a launch would be Titusville City Marina. You could anchor off if there are no slips available and dinghy to the marina. If you decide to do it let me know and if I'm in town, I'll buy you a beer. Just on the mainland side of the NASA causeway is Spaceport Florida, which is pretty interesting and at the other end is the KSC visitor center and if you're into the space program it's worth the trip. Tons (lots of tons) of rockets and such, also I beleive they do a bus tour of the space center. Used to work at Cape Canaveral AFS so I got to see all that stuff for free. Thanks, I'll take a look at the charts. |
my next dream boat...
On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 17:56:33 -0500, cavelamb
wrote: Anybody have any real experience with any of these - for comparison purposes? When I was a PHRF handicapper we used to rate the centerboard versions of the same boat 6 to 9 seconds per mile slower. At 5 kts that works out to less than a tenth of a knot difference. That's a big difference in racing but barely noticable to most cruising boats. That assumes that the centerboard is properly faired and kept in race ready condition (spotlessly clean). |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:12 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com