"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:12:50 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

Maybe we should take a lesson and nationalize all the foreign interests
in
hte USA....

Ya, now there's an idea. :-)

If Nancy and Harry get their way, foreign interests will be the least of
the
batches of businesses to be taken over and run by the geniuses in guvmint.


Based on what? One sentence in the CBO report? Still waiting for you to give
us suggestions about how to get out of the financial mess caused by Bushco.
So far, all I've heard from you is how terrible the liberals are doing or
will do.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:12:50 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

Maybe we should take a lesson and nationalize all the foreign interests
in
hte USA....
Ya, now there's an idea. :-)
If Nancy and Harry get their way, foreign interests will be the least of
the
batches of businesses to be taken over and run by the geniuses in guvmint.


Based on what? One sentence in the CBO report? Still waiting for you to give
us suggestions about how to get out of the financial mess caused by Bushco.
So far, all I've heard from you is how terrible the liberals are doing or
will do.


One thing they should do is stop trying to free up more credit...people
cannot borrow when they have no money to repay..that's what got us into
this in the first place..people borrowing what they never could or
intended to repay...extending more credit is certainly no answer...

katy wrote:
Capt. JG wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:12:50 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

Maybe we should take a lesson and nationalize all the foreign
interests in
hte USA....
Ya, now there's an idea. :-)
If Nancy and Harry get their way, foreign interests will be the least
of the
batches of businesses to be taken over and run by the geniuses in
guvmint.


Based on what? One sentence in the CBO report? Still waiting for you
to give us suggestions about how to get out of the financial mess
caused by Bushco. So far, all I've heard from you is how terrible the
liberals are doing or will do.


One thing they should do is stop trying to free up more credit...people
cannot borrow when they have no money to repay..that's what got us into
this in the first place..people borrowing what they never could or
intended to repay...extending more credit is certainly no answer...


I certainly agree with you on this one, katy,

But "when your only tool is a hammer, all problems look like nails"
seems to apply in spades...


Richard

"katy" wrote in message
. com...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:12:50 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

Maybe we should take a lesson and nationalize all the foreign
interests in
hte USA....
Ya, now there's an idea. :-)
If Nancy and Harry get their way, foreign interests will be the least of
the
batches of businesses to be taken over and run by the geniuses in
guvmint.


Based on what? One sentence in the CBO report? Still waiting for you to
give us suggestions about how to get out of the financial mess caused by
Bushco. So far, all I've heard from you is how terrible the liberals are
doing or will do.


One thing they should do is stop trying to free up more credit...people
cannot borrow when they have no money to repay..that's what got us into
this in the first place..people borrowing what they never could or
intended to repay...extending more credit is certainly no answer...


No one wants people borrowing money they can't repay, and it was certainly
part (but not all) of the problem. Another part of the problem was bundling
these unstable loans and reselling them over and over. That magnified the
problem. There was little or no regulation, and despite Dave's assertions to
the contrary, a big part of that problem was lack of regulation and/or lack
of enforcement (e.g., Madoff is a great example of the latter).

I think you believe that the relm of "freeing up credit" is reserved for
individual consumers, especially those who don't have money. This is not the
case. It's a much bigger problem for those who have decent credit and want
to buy a car, say from GM or from the RV company in the town Obama visited
recently, and it's even a bigger problem for small businesses who can't get
the credit they need to run their business.

Banks don't want to make loans... to anyone. This is a huge part of the
problem.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...

No one wants people borrowing money they can't repay, and it was certainly
part (but not all) of the problem. Another part of the problem was
bundling these unstable loans and reselling them over and over. That
magnified the problem. There was little or no regulation, and despite
Dave's assertions to the contrary, a big part of that problem was lack of
regulation and/or lack of enforcement (e.g., Madoff is a great example of
the latter).

I think you believe that the relm of "freeing up credit" is reserved for
individual consumers, especially those who don't have money. This is not
the case. It's a much bigger problem for those who have decent credit and
want to buy a car, say from GM or from the RV company in the town Obama
visited recently, and it's even a bigger problem for small businesses who
can't get the credit they need to run their business.

Banks don't want to make loans... to anyone. This is a huge part of the
problem.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

We used to have an "export based" economy, with high tariffs for imports. We
actually created things of value which we bought ourselves and/or exported
to other countries, and imported mostly luxury items that we could easily do
without. We then moved to an "import based" economy with low tariffs (if
any) for imports, little domestic production of "consumer" (god, how I hate
that term) products, and little to export except for raw materials. Finally,
we moved to a "debt based" economy with nothing of value to export except
our trash, in which we all decided we could get rich selling each other
stocks, oil futures contracts and houses. When the stocks tanked, and the
houses weren't selling, we decided to sell insurance-that-really-wasn't
called "Credit Default Swaps," totally unregulated of course, in which a
mortgage worth $200,000 could be sliced-up into chunks and resold in
packages at 30 times its actual value, but with less than the actual
mortgage value backing it up Meanwhile, the folks buying and selling oil
futures contracts drove the price of gasoline up to $4.50 a gallon or so,
even while supply was increasing and demand was decreasing. As with all such
ponzi schemes, this too came crashing down.

And people wonder what the blazes is wrong with our economy.

"Let's borrow our way to prosperity!"

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions..

snipped.
I think you believe that the relm of "freeing up credit" is reserved for
individual consumers, especially those who don't have money. This is not
the case. It's a much bigger problem for those who have decent credit and
want to buy a car, say from GM or from the RV company in the town Obama
visited recently, and it's even a bigger problem for small businesses who
can't get the credit they need to run their business.

Banks don't want to make loans... to anyone. This is a huge part of the
problem.

I think that the automobile industry is a special case.
Most people need a loan to buy a new car and most people also have a
perfectly serviceable older car which they can go on running without further
borrowing until things settle down a bit and they are reasonably sure that
next year they will still have a job.
So my guess is that even if the banks loosen up on loans the car industry
is in for a thin time and this applies to all car manufacturing countries
not just USA..

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions..

snipped.
I think you believe that the relm of "freeing up credit" is reserved for
individual consumers, especially those who don't have money. This is not
the case. It's a much bigger problem for those who have decent credit and
want to buy a car, say from GM or from the RV company in the town Obama
visited recently, and it's even a bigger problem for small businesses who
can't get the credit they need to run their business.

Banks don't want to make loans... to anyone. This is a huge part of the
problem.

I think that the automobile industry is a special case.
Most people need a loan to buy a new car and most people also have a
perfectly serviceable older car which they can go on running without
further borrowing until things settle down a bit and they are reasonably
sure that next year they will still have a job.
So my guess is that even if the banks loosen up on loans the car industry
is in for a thin time and this applies to all car manufacturing countries
not just USA..



And, would anyone really want to buy a car from a company that might just go
out of business....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:


I think you believe that the relm of "freeing up credit" is reserved for
individual consumers, especially those who don't have money. This is not the
case. It's a much bigger problem for those who have decent credit and want
to buy a car, say from GM or from the RV company in the town Obama visited
recently, and it's even a bigger problem for small businesses who can't get
the credit they need to run their business.

Banks don't want to make loans... to anyone. This is a huge part of the
problem.

Odd...in my exoerienbce, if you have a decent credit rating there us noo
problem whatsoever finding someone to extend you credit at a decnet
rate...we have multitudinous junk mail offering us low interest loans
all the time and wanting us ti take out a mortgage on our house to
enable us to do whatever...and we are by no means well off...credit,
IMO, has been too easy to obtain...I cannot believe the amounts that are
allowed per income on mortgagges..the rule of thimb when we were young
and starting out was that yout mortgage payment should be no larger than
one weeks pay or 2X your total income minus exoenses...yet many out
there with 35K incomes have 200K mortgages..and it is no wonder they
can;t foot the bills and are living hand to mouth..we had to rent befoe
we coukd afford a house and we had to have an adequate downoayment and
the c losing costs to proceed..these things are oftentimes waived
nowadays...people want too much too fast and they are not willing to
wait...and that's greed...and greed always gets you in the end...

"katy" wrote in message
. com...
Capt. JG wrote:


I think you believe that the relm of "freeing up credit" is reserved for
individual consumers, especially those who don't have money. This is not
the case. It's a much bigger problem for those who have decent credit and
want to buy a car, say from GM or from the RV company in the town Obama
visited recently, and it's even a bigger problem for small businesses who
can't get the credit they need to run their business.

Banks don't want to make loans... to anyone. This is a huge part of the
problem.

Odd...in my exoerienbce, if you have a decent credit rating there us noo
problem whatsoever finding someone to extend you credit at a decnet
rate...we have multitudinous junk mail offering us low interest loans all
the time and wanting us ti take out a mortgage on our house to enable us
to do whatever...and we are by no means well off...credit, IMO, has been
too easy to obtain...I cannot believe the amounts that are allowed per
income on mortgagges..the rule of thimb when we were young and starting
out was that yout mortgage payment should be no larger than one weeks pay
or 2X your total income minus exoenses...yet many out there with 35K
incomes have 200K mortgages..and it is no wonder they can;t foot the bills
and are living hand to mouth..we had to rent befoe we coukd afford a house
and we had to have an adequate downoayment and the c losing costs to
proceed..these things are oftentimes waived nowadays...people want too
much too fast and they are not willing to wait...and that's greed...and
greed always gets you in the end...


I think that these days "decent" is the minimum, as it should be of course.
Part of the problem was greed on the part of the lenders. Sure, there are,
will, and will be regular folks who want more than they can afford, but
there are also those out there who take advantage of people less
sophisticated than you and I... predatory lenders. As many have said,
there's lots of blame to go around. And, I should add that as far as getting
credit goes, it's a much bigger problem for the small and not so small
businesses. That's gotta change or there'll be even more unemployment, which
in combination has a downward spiral effect.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:30:00 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:


Banks don't want to make loans... to anyone. This is a huge part of the
problem.

I deal with banks and banking regulators all day long, Jon. That's simply
untrue.

A major problem is fear on the part of both the regulators and the
regulated. The banking regulators are deathly afraid that if they let
banks
make too many loans in relation to their capital base, and the banks later
go south, the regulators will be criticized. So they pressure banks to
write
down the value of their existing loans. That hits the bank's regulatory
capital, reducing the amount of new money the banks can legally lend.

The bankers are afraid the regulators are going to require them to write
down their existing loans further. If that happens, and the banks have
been
lending more money, they will be out of compliance with regulatory capital
requirements, subjecting the banks to regulatory orders, limits on their
activities, and perhaps even monetary penalties on the directors and
management. So the bankers reduce the amount of loans they are making to
create a cushion in case the regulators go crazy.

The underlying problem is that nobody really knows what the value of
existing outstanding loans really is.


So, as you said, "bankers reduce the amount of loans they are making...."
And, as I said, they don't want to make loans.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com