That's only if you can find a surveyor who knows his ass from a hole
in the ground - both in general and in particular about these crappy
boats - and then pay $600 to find out it's an over-priced piece of
**** that needs $55K worth of attention. What a deal.

Look somewhere else 1st and steer clear of the teaky-turds.

PS - by standing rigging I mean turnbuckles - stupid cheap buyers of
these bad boads never replace the original bad turnbuckles - and
chainplates fail when they fail - this is a waste of keystrokes -
you're obviously not a real cruiser. Read you own statements and see
if you want to buy all these potential or real problems.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX. Yes,
some CT/Formosas were finished poorly. At worst, this means judging each and
every boat individually. Dryrot problems in the deckhouse and other plywood
structures (including the deck) are not at all uncommon, but a good many of
them have been properly repaired (or even entirely rebuilt) over the years,
and can be in very good condition indeed. The standing rigging on virtually
all of them would have been replaced over the years (replacement of running
rigging is a given) , and chainplates that were going to fail would have
demonstrated this problem long ago and been replaced. Even assuming the
chainplates need complete replacement, it is not a particularly costly or
difficult task. As for electrical and plumbing systems, *any* boat which is
30-40 years old is a good candidate for improvements and upgrades to those
systems if it hasn't already been done. Those boats should also be priced
accordingly. But this has no bearing whatsoever on the overall seaworthiness
or seakindliness of the CT/Formosa class of boats. The hulls are
excellent -- *particularly* for blue-water cruising. I will grant that the
tanks may well need replacement -- MAY. I would not state off-hand that such
a statement can be applied to ALL of these boats.

In short, any of the Taiwan boats MAY be perfectly serviceable -- a thorough
and proper marine survey should weed-out those which require more work than
the buyer is willing to take on.

JAX Wannabe

Yeah, you're absolutely right -- "standing rigging" consists solely of
turnbuckles, which are never replaced with the rest of the standing rigging,
and every CT-41 ever built sank the day it was launched. The only vessel
worthy of ocean voyaging is a Macgregor 26, like the one you "cruise" in.

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"Ace-high" wrote in message
...
That's only if you can find a surveyor who knows his ass from a hole
in the ground - both in general and in particular about these crappy
boats - and then pay $600 to find out it's an over-priced piece of
**** that needs $55K worth of attention. What a deal.

Look somewhere else 1st and steer clear of the teaky-turds.

PS - by standing rigging I mean turnbuckles - stupid cheap buyers of
these bad boads never replace the original bad turnbuckles - and
chainplates fail when they fail - this is a waste of keystrokes -
you're obviously not a real cruiser. Read you own statements and see
if you want to buy all these potential or real problems.

Ace-High:

Your language is atrocious.
You advice is impolite, inaccurate and unwarranted.
Your attitude is unforgivable in a news group.
Please rethink your next response before addressing posters.

Bob

"Ace-high" wrote in message
...
That's only if you can find a surveyor who knows his ass from a hole
in the ground - both in general and in particular about these crappy
boats - and then pay $600 to find out it's an over-priced piece of
**** that needs $55K worth of attention. What a deal.

Look somewhere else 1st and steer clear of the teaky-turds.

PS - by standing rigging I mean turnbuckles - stupid cheap buyers of
these bad boads never replace the original bad turnbuckles - and
chainplates fail when they fail - this is a waste of keystrokes -
you're obviously not a real cruiser. Read you own statements and see
if you want to buy all these potential or real problems.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX.
Yes,
some CT/Formosas were finished poorly. At worst, this means judging each
and
every boat individually. Dryrot problems in the deckhouse and other
plywood
structures (including the deck) are not at all uncommon, but a good many
of
them have been properly repaired (or even entirely rebuilt) over the
years,
and can be in very good condition indeed. The standing rigging on
virtually
all of them would have been replaced over the years (replacement of
running
rigging is a given) , and chainplates that were going to fail would have
demonstrated this problem long ago and been replaced. Even assuming the
chainplates need complete replacement, it is not a particularly costly or
difficult task. As for electrical and plumbing systems, *any* boat which
is
30-40 years old is a good candidate for improvements and upgrades to
those
systems if it hasn't already been done. Those boats should also be priced
accordingly. But this has no bearing whatsoever on the overall
seaworthiness
or seakindliness of the CT/Formosa class of boats. The hulls are
excellent -- *particularly* for blue-water cruising. I will grant that
the
tanks may well need replacement -- MAY. I would not state off-hand that
such
a statement can be applied to ALL of these boats.

In short, any of the Taiwan boats MAY be perfectly serviceable -- a
thorough
and proper marine survey should weed-out those which require more work
than
the buyer is willing to take on.

Dear Bob,

Thanks for your uncalled for remarks.

My language is nornal - I didn't say **** at all - real cruisers say
that ocasionally. And they drink rum and eat fish
..
My advice is accurate and concise - you might not like it but most/all
of these boats are crappy - and generally a waste of cruisers money.

My attitude - well I've been there and done that - and I don't have to
call myself Salty as a front.

My next response will be more of the cruising truth.

PS - Don't buy a crappy boat and spend years and wasted dollars making
int into an expensive crappy boat. DO - buy a reasonable boat and go
cruising now - before you die choking on all this NG BS from wannabe
know-it-all but never-been cruisers.



On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:59:45 -0700, "Salty Bob"
wrote:

Ace-High:

Your language is atrocious.
You advice is impolite, inaccurate and unwarranted.
Your attitude is unforgivable in a news group.
Please rethink your next response before addressing posters.

Bob

"Ace-high" wrote in message
.. .
That's only if you can find a surveyor who knows his ass from a hole
in the ground - both in general and in particular about these crappy
boats - and then pay $600 to find out it's an over-priced piece of
**** that needs $55K worth of attention. What a deal.

Look somewhere else 1st and steer clear of the teaky-turds.

PS - by standing rigging I mean turnbuckles - stupid cheap buyers of
these bad boads never replace the original bad turnbuckles - and
chainplates fail when they fail - this is a waste of keystrokes -
you're obviously not a real cruiser. Read you own statements and see
if you want to buy all these potential or real problems.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX.
Yes,
some CT/Formosas were finished poorly. At worst, this means judging each
and
every boat individually. Dryrot problems in the deckhouse and other
plywood
structures (including the deck) are not at all uncommon, but a good many
of
them have been properly repaired (or even entirely rebuilt) over the
years,
and can be in very good condition indeed. The standing rigging on
virtually
all of them would have been replaced over the years (replacement of
running
rigging is a given) , and chainplates that were going to fail would have
demonstrated this problem long ago and been replaced. Even assuming the
chainplates need complete replacement, it is not a particularly costly or
difficult task. As for electrical and plumbing systems, *any* boat which
is
30-40 years old is a good candidate for improvements and upgrades to
those
systems if it hasn't already been done. Those boats should also be priced
accordingly. But this has no bearing whatsoever on the overall
seaworthiness
or seakindliness of the CT/Formosa class of boats. The hulls are
excellent -- *particularly* for blue-water cruising. I will grant that
the
tanks may well need replacement -- MAY. I would not state off-hand that
such
a statement can be applied to ALL of these boats.

In short, any of the Taiwan boats MAY be perfectly serviceable -- a
thorough
and proper marine survey should weed-out those which require more work
than
the buyer is willing to take on.

Yawn...

Bob

"Ace-high" wrote in message
...
Dear Bob,

Thanks for your uncalled for remarks.

My language is nornal - I didn't say **** at all - real cruisers say
that ocasionally. And they drink rum and eat fish
.
My advice is accurate and concise - you might not like it but most/all
of these boats are crappy - and generally a waste of cruisers money.

My attitude - well I've been there and done that - and I don't have to
call myself Salty as a front.

My next response will be more of the cruising truth.

PS - Don't buy a crappy boat and spend years and wasted dollars making
int into an expensive crappy boat. DO - buy a reasonable boat and go
cruising now - before you die choking on all this NG BS from wannabe
know-it-all but never-been cruisers.



On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:59:45 -0700, "Salty Bob"
wrote:

Ace-High:

Your language is atrocious.
You advice is impolite, inaccurate and unwarranted.
Your attitude is unforgivable in a news group.
Please rethink your next response before addressing posters.

Bob

"Ace-high" wrote in message
.. .
That's only if you can find a surveyor who knows his ass from a hole
in the ground - both in general and in particular about these crappy
boats - and then pay $600 to find out it's an over-priced piece of
**** that needs $55K worth of attention. What a deal.

Look somewhere else 1st and steer clear of the teaky-turds.

PS - by standing rigging I mean turnbuckles - stupid cheap buyers of
these bad boads never replace the original bad turnbuckles - and
chainplates fail when they fail - this is a waste of keystrokes -
you're obviously not a real cruiser. Read you own statements and see
if you want to buy all these potential or real problems.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:

As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX.
Yes,
some CT/Formosas were finished poorly. At worst, this means judging
each
and
every boat individually. Dryrot problems in the deckhouse and other
plywood
structures (including the deck) are not at all uncommon, but a good
many
of
them have been properly repaired (or even entirely rebuilt) over the
years,
and can be in very good condition indeed. The standing rigging on
virtually
all of them would have been replaced over the years (replacement of
running
rigging is a given) , and chainplates that were going to fail would
have
demonstrated this problem long ago and been replaced. Even assuming
the
chainplates need complete replacement, it is not a particularly costly
or
difficult task. As for electrical and plumbing systems, *any* boat
which
is
30-40 years old is a good candidate for improvements and upgrades to
those
systems if it hasn't already been done. Those boats should also be
priced
accordingly. But this has no bearing whatsoever on the overall
seaworthiness
or seakindliness of the CT/Formosa class of boats. The hulls are
excellent -- *particularly* for blue-water cruising. I will grant that
the
tanks may well need replacement -- MAY. I would not state off-hand
that
such
a statement can be applied to ALL of these boats.

In short, any of the Taiwan boats MAY be perfectly serviceable -- a
thorough
and proper marine survey should weed-out those which require more work
than
the buyer is willing to take on.

I think Bob's point is that you probably know little about the subject,
and use sweeping terms that really have no meaning.

Ace-high wrote:

Dear Bob,

Thanks for your uncalled for remarks.

My language is nornal - I didn't say **** at all - real cruisers say
that ocasionally. And they drink rum and eat fish
.
My advice is accurate and concise - you might not like it but most/all
of these boats are crappy - and generally a waste of cruisers money.

My attitude - well I've been there and done that - and I don't have to
call myself Salty as a front.

My next response will be more of the cruising truth.

PS - Don't buy a crappy boat and spend years and wasted dollars making
int into an expensive crappy boat. DO - buy a reasonable boat and go
cruising now - before you die choking on all this NG BS from wannabe
know-it-all but never-been cruisers.



On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:59:45 -0700, "Salty Bob"
wrote:


Ace-High:

Your language is atrocious.
You advice is impolite, inaccurate and unwarranted.
Your attitude is unforgivable in a news group.
Please rethink your next response before addressing posters.

Bob

"Ace-high" wrote in message
. ..

That's only if you can find a surveyor who knows his ass from a hole
in the ground - both in general and in particular about these crappy
boats - and then pay $600 to find out it's an over-priced piece of
**** that needs $55K worth of attention. What a deal.

Look somewhere else 1st and steer clear of the teaky-turds.

PS - by standing rigging I mean turnbuckles - stupid cheap buyers of
these bad boads never replace the original bad turnbuckles - and
chainplates fail when they fail - this is a waste of keystrokes -
you're obviously not a real cruiser. Read you own statements and see
if you want to buy all these potential or real problems.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:


As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX.

Yes,

some CT/Formosas were finished poorly. At worst, this means judging each

and

every boat individually. Dryrot problems in the deckhouse and other

plywood

structures (including the deck) are not at all uncommon, but a good many

of

them have been properly repaired (or even entirely rebuilt) over the

years,

and can be in very good condition indeed. The standing rigging on

virtually

all of them would have been replaced over the years (replacement of

running

rigging is a given) , and chainplates that were going to fail would have
demonstrated this problem long ago and been replaced. Even assuming the
chainplates need complete replacement, it is not a particularly costly or
difficult task. As for electrical and plumbing systems, *any* boat which

is

30-40 years old is a good candidate for improvements and upgrades to

those

systems if it hasn't already been done. Those boats should also be priced
accordingly. But this has no bearing whatsoever on the overall

seaworthiness

or seakindliness of the CT/Formosa class of boats. The hulls are
excellent -- *particularly* for blue-water cruising. I will grant that

the

tanks may well need replacement -- MAY. I would not state off-hand that

such

a statement can be applied to ALL of these boats.

In short, any of the Taiwan boats MAY be perfectly serviceable -- a

thorough

and proper marine survey should weed-out those which require more work

than

the buyer is willing to take on.

Dear Jim -

It doesn't matter to me - buy that piece of **** - or better yet -
have your Mother buy you one -

If you guys can't tell **** from shinola - anything I say ain't gonna
help you learn.

Repeat - PS - Don't buy a crappy boat and spend years and wasted
dollars making into an expensive crappy boat. DO - buy a reasonable
boat and go cruising now - before you die choking on all this NG BS
from wannabe know-it-all but never-been cruisers.



On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 02:09:00 GMT, Jim wrote:

I think Bob's point is that you probably know little about the subject,
and use sweeping terms that really have no meaning.

Ace-high wrote:

Dear Bob,

Thanks for your uncalled for remarks.

My language is nornal - I didn't say **** at all - real cruisers say
that ocasionally. And they drink rum and eat fish
.
My advice is accurate and concise - you might not like it but most/all
of these boats are crappy - and generally a waste of cruisers money.

My attitude - well I've been there and done that - and I don't have to
call myself Salty as a front.

My next response will be more of the cruising truth.

PS - Don't buy a crappy boat and spend years and wasted dollars making
int into an expensive crappy boat. DO - buy a reasonable boat and go
cruising now - before you die choking on all this NG BS from wannabe
know-it-all but never-been cruisers.



On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:59:45 -0700, "Salty Bob"
wrote:


Ace-High:

Your language is atrocious.
You advice is impolite, inaccurate and unwarranted.
Your attitude is unforgivable in a news group.
Please rethink your next response before addressing posters.

Bob

"Ace-high" wrote in message
...

That's only if you can find a surveyor who knows his ass from a hole
in the ground - both in general and in particular about these crappy
boats - and then pay $600 to find out it's an over-priced piece of
**** that needs $55K worth of attention. What a deal.

Look somewhere else 1st and steer clear of the teaky-turds.

PS - by standing rigging I mean turnbuckles - stupid cheap buyers of
these bad boads never replace the original bad turnbuckles - and
chainplates fail when they fail - this is a waste of keystrokes -
you're obviously not a real cruiser. Read you own statements and see
if you want to buy all these potential or real problems.



On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:38:25 -0500, "Karin Conover-Lewis"
wrote:


As a former owner of a CT-41, I can only say that this is the most
ridiculous statement I've read here, not directly attributable to JAX.

Yes,

some CT/Formosas were finished poorly. At worst, this means judging each

and

every boat individually. Dryrot problems in the deckhouse and other

plywood

structures (including the deck) are not at all uncommon, but a good many

of

them have been properly repaired (or even entirely rebuilt) over the

years,

and can be in very good condition indeed. The standing rigging on

virtually

all of them would have been replaced over the years (replacement of

running

rigging is a given) , and chainplates that were going to fail would have
demonstrated this problem long ago and been replaced. Even assuming the
chainplates need complete replacement, it is not a particularly costly or
difficult task. As for electrical and plumbing systems, *any* boat which

is

30-40 years old is a good candidate for improvements and upgrades to

those

systems if it hasn't already been done. Those boats should also be priced
accordingly. But this has no bearing whatsoever on the overall

seaworthiness

or seakindliness of the CT/Formosa class of boats. The hulls are
excellent -- *particularly* for blue-water cruising. I will grant that

the

tanks may well need replacement -- MAY. I would not state off-hand that

such

a statement can be applied to ALL of these boats.

In short, any of the Taiwan boats MAY be perfectly serviceable -- a

thorough

and proper marine survey should weed-out those which require more work

than

the buyer is willing to take on.

I am sorry for doing this, but I will post my real name and boat name to
show I am not hiding from my statement. Web Barton, Formosa 36 Ghost,
currently docked Alameda. I live in coast north of Santa Cruz
Ace High is an Idiot. Capital I. My background: Commercial Fisherman for
many years, including winter Bering Sea crab fishery, West Coast Dungeness
fishery, West Coast Urchin Fishery,Pacific Tuna fishery (midway and pago
back to west coast) blah blah blah. Dive boat/ surf charter operator
Australia/Indian Ocean. Surfer, over 25 years. Certified diver since 1978
(I am 40) 100 ton master (big deal) Former GM Marathon Boat Yard, Florida
(100 ton lift)The point is, I have been around the water. Alot. And I have
been in bad weather. What about you, Ace? Lets hear it. Wow, nine whole
years cruising? I have hauled and repaired HUNDREDS of boats. I bought my
36 Formosa at 24 years old.(sixteen years ago) It was all I could afford.
I have since cruised Canada to panama canal, crossed caribbean to florida,
and hawaiion that little boat. Big deal ,lots of folks have done WAY more.
But here is my point, my little Formosa did just fine. And i think I was
out of VHF range. Yes, they have some problems. But they are all fixable.
All boats have problems. And all boats have positives. You get what you
can afford, aquire as much knowledge as you can, and enjoy your time on
the water for what it is: a blessing. I have cruised down to Costa Rica
side by side with a McGregor 26. I have seen bulkheads pop on US boats.
You just do the best you can with what you have got. I have gone to many
places that crews on bigger more pedigree boats were freaked out for
whatever reason and I was just fine. I am sorry for the rant, this guy
just ****es me off for making such a blanket statement, I would really
like to see what kind of a WATERMAN he really is (if he even knows what
that means)
So... to be positive.. If the guy who asked the first question is still
reading this thread and wants some good info, I know these boats really
well. I am actually flying China in a few months to look at a new 56.
(yes, I am considering another Formosa)I know the history of the Yard,
etc. I'll look to see if he is still reading...

I am sorry for doing this, but I will post my real name and boat name to
show I am not hiding from my statement. Web Barton, Formosa 36 Ghost,
currently docked Alameda. I live in coast north of Santa Cruz
Ace High is an Idiot. Capital I. My background: Commercial Fisherman for
many years, including winter Bering Sea crab fishery, West Coast Dungeness
fishery, West Coast Urchin Fishery,Pacific Tuna fishery (midway and pago
back to west coast) blah blah blah. Dive boat/ surf charter operator
Australia/Indian Ocean. Surfer, over 25 years. Certified diver since 1978
(I am 40) 100 ton master (big deal) Former GM Marathon Boat Yard, Florida
(100 ton lift)The point is, I have been around the water. Alot. And I have
been in bad weather. What about you, Ace? Lets hear it. Wow, nine whole
years cruising? I have hauled and repaired HUNDREDS of boats. I bought my
36 Formosa at 24 years old.(sixteen years ago) It was all I could afford.
I have since cruised Canada to panama canal, crossed caribbean to florida,
and hawaiion that little boat. Big deal ,lots of folks have done WAY more.
But here is my point, my little Formosa did just fine. And i think I was
out of VHF range. Yes, they have some problems. But they are all fixable.
All boats have problems. And all boats have positives. You get what you
can afford, aquire as much knowledge as you can, and enjoy your time on
the water for what it is: a blessing. I have cruised down to Costa Rica
side by side with a McGregor 26. I have seen bulkheads pop on US boats.
You just do the best you can with what you have got. I have gone to many
places that crews on bigger more pedigree boats were freaked out for
whatever reason and I was just fine. I am sorry for the rant, this guy
just ****es me off for making such a blanket statement, I would really
like to see what kind of a WATERMAN he really is (if he even knows what
that means)
So... to be positive.. If the guy who asked the first question is still
reading this thread and wants some good info, I know these boats really
well. I am actually flying China in a few months to look at a new 56.
(yes, I am considering another Formosa)I know the history of the Yard,
etc. I'll look to see if he is still reading...

Oh yeah, and as a follow up, What does "wanna be" mean? I have told you who
I am Ace, I am in the phone book. Do you cross oceans? I have. Have you
seen friends die fishing the Ice in insane winter weather 500 miles
offshore? I have. Do you charge big surf, because you know that it makes
you a real waterman? I do. Do you make your living on/around the ocean
because you are totally committed? I do. READERS know the real deal vs.
what we call "KOOKS"
So i guess when I am anchored off the Tuamotus on my next trip,on my
FORMOSA, anchored OUTER REEF, CHARGING triple overhead reef pass surf, I
am just a wannabe. What a joke.