The worst Democrat President
 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:57:27 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Larry wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in news:Cegbl.21426
:

When we see Israel and the US setting up a secular/democratic society,
were the vast majority of citizens subject their religious books to
rational criticism and reject the parts that are racist or wrong in
some
way, we shouldn't condemn those societies because they still follow
parts of those books, we should congratulate them for making progress
out of the dark ages and do everything we can to help them flourish,
especially when they are surrounded by extremists who want their own
version of the dark ages to return.

Stephen



I think my ideas are better. America simply EXTRICATES itself from
foreign entanglements and LEAVES EVERYONE ELSE ALONE!


All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Stephen


Here here.

Agreed.

I don't want to re-start the middle-east wars but to someone living
out side the U.S. the whole thing is simply incomprehensible. And not
as though there weren't problems at home. We watched the New Orleans
fiasco (for want of a better word) with amazement.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

The worst Democrat President
 

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Stephen

I'm sorry, but if you think that we have foreign entanglements because we
are out there "fighting evil," you are unbelievably naive.

The worst Democrat President
 

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Stephen

I'm sorry, but if you think that we have foreign entanglements because we
are out there "fighting evil," you are unbelievably naive.



I don't think that's what he's saying. I certainly don't agree that anything
approaching the majority of our foreing entanglements have anything to do
with fighting evil.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

The worst Democrat President
 

KLC Lewis wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Stephen

I'm sorry, but if you think that we have foreign entanglements because we
are out there "fighting evil," you are unbelievably naive.

Ironically, the unbelievable naivety is in thinking there is no evil for
us to fight.

Stephen

The worst Democrat President
 

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:35:29 -0800, Stephen Trapani
[...]
The Christians? Well, maybe start a new sect?
The Christians have no monopoly on sects. The Shia and Sunnis are both
Muslims and kill each other over their differences about what the Koran
says. Moderate Muslims also live in free societies without clashing with
the laws like extremists do. I'm not sure what you're not getting here.

True, but they are all Moslems when it comes time to dealing with the
Infidel. The Shia and Sunnis are divided by who legally inherited
Muhammad's authority not by interpretations of the Koran. Cultural
differences also interact here as the main Sunni grouping is Saudi
Arabian while the Shias are stronger in the old Persian areas. Iraq
is, of course a mixture with the resulting havoc. and of course there
are a number of sub groupings like Wahabis, et al. But he fact remains
that they all believe the Book.

That's the beauty of it. Once they accept the principle that the book
contains some metaphor, it's all the true word of God, but you can still
make it say just about anything you want because God isn't crystal clear
about everything. It's mysterious, don't ya know. *All* denominations do it.

Personally I believe people gravitate toward what they want to believe.
There are so many different denominations and religions conveniently
designed for any and all psychological weaknesses that finding one that
fits ones own is usually easy. The extremist murderers have murder in
them already and find a religion that encourages it.

So the solution is as I said at the beginning of this discussion, and
exactly as Israel, the US and all true democractic societies have done,
put rationality in charge of the country as best you can and make
religion conform to rationality. This is *exactly* why supporting
Israel is so important. We have to fight for this important advancement
in humanity everywhere we find it. If we don't we will lose it.

Incidentally, rationality will eventually destroy religion entirely,
given enough time, because of course, no religion really makes sense.

As far as Moslems living among the infidel without clashing with the
law see the recent Dutch legislation emphasizing that Moslems must
obey Dutch laws; the Moslem youth burning cars in France; the Moslem
youths bombing subways in England. I suggest that it isn't a marriage
made in Heaven.

These are still the extremists among them. There are millions of
"moderate" Muslims living in the US and other democractic countries that
never create a stitch of conflict.

Stephen

The worst Democrat President
 

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Stephen

I'm sorry, but if you think that we have foreign entanglements because we
are out there "fighting evil," you are unbelievably naive.

Ironically, the unbelievable naivety is in thinking there is no evil for
us to fight.

Stephen


No doubt, but we're not doing that in most cases right now. Perhaps that
will change.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

The worst Democrat President
 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:09:13 -0800, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:35:29 -0800, Stephen Trapani
[...]
The Christians? Well, maybe start a new sect?
The Christians have no monopoly on sects. The Shia and Sunnis are both
Muslims and kill each other over their differences about what the Koran
says. Moderate Muslims also live in free societies without clashing with
the laws like extremists do. I'm not sure what you're not getting here.

True, but they are all Moslems when it comes time to dealing with the
Infidel. The Shia and Sunnis are divided by who legally inherited
Muhammad's authority not by interpretations of the Koran. Cultural
differences also interact here as the main Sunni grouping is Saudi
Arabian while the Shias are stronger in the old Persian areas. Iraq
is, of course a mixture with the resulting havoc. and of course there
are a number of sub groupings like Wahabis, et al. But he fact remains
that they all believe the Book.

That's the beauty of it. Once they accept the principle that the book
contains some metaphor, it's all the true word of God, but you can still
make it say just about anything you want because God isn't crystal clear
about everything. It's mysterious, don't ya know. *All* denominations do it.

Rather then my trying, in vain, to convince you that you don't have a
glimmer about what you are taking about I suggest that you catch a
flight to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, Indonesia
or any of the other Moslem countries and discuss your proposed changes
to the Koran with the indigenous peoples.

If you will publicize your departure date I will keep close watch on
the news media but my guess is that hardly a week will pass before a
fatwa is issued against you for insulting the faith and we can watch
you dodge the lads looking to gain credit with God by canceling your
ticket.

Don't stand on ceremony now, keep us advised of your travel plans.
Perhaps you to can be on television.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

The worst Democrat President
 

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:09:13 -0800, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:35:29 -0800, Stephen Trapani
[...]
The Christians? Well, maybe start a new sect?
The Christians have no monopoly on sects. The Shia and Sunnis are both
Muslims and kill each other over their differences about what the Koran
says. Moderate Muslims also live in free societies without clashing with
the laws like extremists do. I'm not sure what you're not getting here.
True, but they are all Moslems when it comes time to dealing with the
Infidel. The Shia and Sunnis are divided by who legally inherited
Muhammad's authority not by interpretations of the Koran. Cultural
differences also interact here as the main Sunni grouping is Saudi
Arabian while the Shias are stronger in the old Persian areas. Iraq
is, of course a mixture with the resulting havoc. and of course there
are a number of sub groupings like Wahabis, et al. But he fact remains
that they all believe the Book.
That's the beauty of it. Once they accept the principle that the book
contains some metaphor, it's all the true word of God, but you can still
make it say just about anything you want because God isn't crystal clear
about everything. It's mysterious, don't ya know. *All* denominations do it.

Rather then my trying, in vain, to convince you that you don't have a
glimmer about what you are taking about I suggest that you catch a
flight to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, Indonesia
or any of the other Moslem countries and discuss your proposed changes
to the Koran with the indigenous peoples.

If you will publicize your departure date I will keep close watch on
the news media but my guess is that hardly a week will pass before a
fatwa is issued against you for insulting the faith and we can watch
you dodge the lads looking to gain credit with God by canceling your
ticket.

Don't stand on ceremony now, keep us advised of your travel plans.
Perhaps you to can be on television.
Cheers,

Your contention, then, is that there is only one interpretation of the
Koran, every Muslim interprets it all the same. This is, of course,
utter nonsense and it appears to be you that needs to get out more.

Stephen

The worst Democrat President
 

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:00:04 -0800, Stephen Trapani
said:

Rather then my trying, in vain, to convince you that you don't have a
glimmer about what you are taking about I suggest that you catch a
flight to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, Indonesia
or any of the other Moslem countries and discuss your proposed changes
to the Koran with the indigenous peoples.

If you will publicize your departure date I will keep close watch on
the news media but my guess is that hardly a week will pass before a
fatwa is issued against you for insulting the faith and we can watch
you dodge the lads looking to gain credit with God by canceling your
ticket.

Don't stand on ceremony now, keep us advised of your travel plans.
Perhaps you to can be on television.
Cheers,
Your contention, then, is that there is only one interpretation of the
Koran, every Muslim interprets it all the same.

That is neither a fair nor a reasonable reading of Bruce's post.

Sure it is. I said that religions, inlcluding Islam, already have
accamodated themselves to governments via changing how they view their
holy book

The worst Democrat President
 

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:00:04 -0800, Stephen Trapani
said:

Rather then my trying, in vain, to convince you that you don't have a
glimmer about what you are taking about I suggest that you catch a
flight to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, Indonesia
or any of the other Moslem countries and discuss your proposed changes
to the Koran with the indigenous peoples.

If you will publicize your departure date I will keep close watch on
the news media but my guess is that hardly a week will pass before a
fatwa is issued against you for insulting the faith and we can watch
you dodge the lads looking to gain credit with God by canceling your
ticket.

Don't stand on ceremony now, keep us advised of your travel plans.
Perhaps you to can be on television.
Cheers,
Your contention, then, is that there is only one interpretation of the
Koran, every Muslim interprets it all the same.

That is neither a fair nor a reasonable reading of Bruce's post.

Sure it is. I said various denominations of Islam have accommodated
themselves to democratic governments. As evidence I gave the example of
many Muslims within the US and other democracies who do not feel
compelled to break any laws due to their religion. He apparently thinks
this condition does not exist and any attempt to suggest it does will
result in a death threat against me by Islam. Ridiculous on the face of
it, isn't it?

Stephen