Dave wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:20:46 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said:

Some Palestinians don't want Israel to exist. Some Israelis don't want
Palestine to exist. Both sides are working to wipe the other off the face of
the Earth. Innocence is hard to find.

Well said. Unfortunately truth has little appeal to the simple-minded, who
prefer one-dimensional political slogans..

Ironic statement, considering that the false moral equivalence statement
above is itself one dimensional.

What some people in each society want is irrelevant.

Hamas *is* working to wipe Israel off the face of the earth because
Hamas considers all free societies evil. In the process they *target*
innocent citizens on a regular basis. Israel is trying to wipe this evil
religion along with those who will not abandon it off the face of the
earth, but are find with Arab neighbors who leave them alone. Israel not
only isn't targeting innocent Arabs, they are hampered by their moral
superiority of avoiding harm to innocents as Hamas uses their own
innocent citizens as human shields, hiding weapons and missile attacks
among them.

Those who refuse to recognize this stark difference in morality are
themselves contributing to the advancement of evil.

Stephen

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:23:14 -0800, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

Dave wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:20:46 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said:

Some Palestinians don't want Israel to exist. Some Israelis don't want
Palestine to exist. Both sides are working to wipe the other off the face of
the Earth. Innocence is hard to find.

Well said. Unfortunately truth has little appeal to the simple-minded, who
prefer one-dimensional political slogans..

Ironic statement, considering that the false moral equivalence statement
above is itself one dimensional.

What some people in each society want is irrelevant.

Hamas *is* working to wipe Israel off the face of the earth because
Hamas considers all free societies evil. In the process they *target*
innocent citizens on a regular basis. Israel is trying to wipe this evil
religion along with those who will not abandon it off the face of the
earth, but are find with Arab neighbors who leave them alone. Israel not
only isn't targeting innocent Arabs, they are hampered by their moral
superiority of avoiding harm to innocents as Hamas uses their own
innocent citizens as human shields, hiding weapons and missile attacks
among them.

Those who refuse to recognize this stark difference in morality are
themselves contributing to the advancement of evil.

Stephen

That's would be our Dave!

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:44:17 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:08:48 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:12:22 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:


Are they innocent? they elected Hamus an openly terrorist organization
who advocate the forcible eradication of Israel.

Is that really innocent?
Cheers,

The children did that?

Nope, the voters did that but as the "children" throw stones at
Israeli soldiers and otherwise do their best to incite the situation
how innocent can one consider them?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I consider the children mostly innocent. They do what most children do...
follow their role models' lead. I understand why the adults voted in Hamas;
Israel should have, could have, and should do more for the cause of peace,
but that does not excuse the indescriminate firing of rockets and the calls
for the descruction of Israel by the Hamas leadership. Both need to end.

I wonder whether you would find the "child" who carried a bomb into
the restaurant where it exploded killing your wife/child/loved one so
innocent as you feel at the moment sitting safely at home watching the
T.V.

As far as the "cause of peace" it is somewhat difficult to have a
peace with folks who hate you, who's religion (and don't think that
the Palestinians aren't true believers) teaches them that outsiders,
infidels, have no rights and should be eradicated if they don't
convert.

To get an impression of Islamic beliefs understand that it is 1430 in
the Islamic calendar. Review Christian history for the mid 1400's A.D.
and it will give you a fairly accurate picture.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce In Bangkok wrote in
:

As far as the "cause of peace" it is somewhat difficult to have a
peace with folks who hate you, who's religion (and don't think that
the Palestinians aren't true believers) teaches them that outsiders,
infidels, have no rights and should be eradicated if they don't
convert.



It's not just Islam, it's ALL OF THEM! Every relgion on the planet has a
long history of genocide, proving beyond any shadow of a doubt there is no
"god" and certainly no "saviour" who's gonna swoop down and save...er,
ah....which group of religious murderers??

This superstitious phenomenon of the upper life forms may be the reason
life cycles through a few million years then suddenly commits suicide for
no apparent reason. There may a limit to how much "intelligence" life can
withstand before that "intelligence" becomes its own death sentence,
committing itself to self-destruction through the very death machines that
big brain has superstitiously invented to terminate its species.

5,500+ humans die each day over religion. How utterly stupid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGpO1lQrLY

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:44:17 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:08:48 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:12:22 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:


Are they innocent? they elected Hamus an openly terrorist organization
who advocate the forcible eradication of Israel.

Is that really innocent?
Cheers,

The children did that?

Nope, the voters did that but as the "children" throw stones at
Israeli soldiers and otherwise do their best to incite the situation
how innocent can one consider them?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I consider the children mostly innocent. They do what most children do...
follow their role models' lead. I understand why the adults voted in
Hamas;
Israel should have, could have, and should do more for the cause of peace,
but that does not excuse the indescriminate firing of rockets and the
calls
for the descruction of Israel by the Hamas leadership. Both need to end.

I wonder whether you would find the "child" who carried a bomb into
the restaurant where it exploded killing your wife/child/loved one so
innocent as you feel at the moment sitting safely at home watching the
T.V.

As far as the "cause of peace" it is somewhat difficult to have a
peace with folks who hate you, who's religion (and don't think that
the Palestinians aren't true believers) teaches them that outsiders,
infidels, have no rights and should be eradicated if they don't
convert.

To get an impression of Islamic beliefs understand that it is 1430 in
the Islamic calendar. Review Christian history for the mid 1400's A.D.
and it will give you a fairly accurate picture.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I probably wouldn't but the child would be innocent and would have been used
by an adult. Children's brains are not sufficiently developed to guarantee
knowing right from wrong. That's why we don't as a rule execute kids.

It is difficult, as you say, but it's not impossible. I also believe that
most people, without regard to religion, would prefer peace and coexistence
to war and death. Islam is not a "violent" religion, any more than
Christianity or Judism.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Bruce In Bangkok wrote in
:

As far as the "cause of peace" it is somewhat difficult to have a
peace with folks who hate you, who's religion (and don't think that
the Palestinians aren't true believers) teaches them that outsiders,
infidels, have no rights and should be eradicated if they don't
convert.



It's not just Islam, it's ALL OF THEM! Every relgion on the planet has a
long history of genocide, proving beyond any shadow of a doubt there is no
"god" and certainly no "saviour" who's gonna swoop down and save...er,
ah....which group of religious murderers??

This superstitious phenomenon of the upper life forms may be the reason
life cycles through a few million years then suddenly commits suicide for
no apparent reason. There may a limit to how much "intelligence" life can
withstand before that "intelligence" becomes its own death sentence,
committing itself to self-destruction through the very death machines that
big brain has superstitiously invented to terminate its species.

5,500+ humans die each day over religion. How utterly stupid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGpO1lQrLY



While not perfect, Buddhism does a decent job at restraint...

"As the Buddha states in the Brahma Net Sutra: "If a child of Buddha himself
kills, or goads someone else to kill, or provides with or suggests means for
killing, or praises the act of killing or, on seeing someone commit the act,
expresses approval for what that person has done, or kills by way of
incantations, or is the cause, occasion, means, or instrument of the act of
inducing a death, he will be shut out of the community."


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 01:16:27 -0000, Justin C
wrote:

In article lutions,
Capt. JG wrote:

[big snip]

that's the perception that's being generated by the Arab run news
agencies based in countries where the governments usually don't believe
Israel has a right to exist.

I don't think you'll find it's the *existence* of Israel that is the
problem, it's *where* it exists that is the cause of the trouble. For
example, if the Jews had, let's say, Rhode Island, I'm sure the
Palestinians and Jordanians would be quite happy but would you?

Justin.

Certainly, who cares about Rhode Island? Better yet, give 'em Miami as
it is much the Jewish homeland as Palestine..

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
They have to grow old and cantankerous in New York before they're allowed to
move to South Florida.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:31:54 +0000, Larry wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote in
:

As far as the "cause of peace" it is somewhat difficult to have a
peace with folks who hate you, who's religion (and don't think that
the Palestinians aren't true believers) teaches them that outsiders,
infidels, have no rights and should be eradicated if they don't
convert.



It's not just Islam, it's ALL OF THEM! Every relgion on the planet has a
long history of genocide, proving beyond any shadow of a doubt there is no
"god" and certainly no "saviour" who's gonna swoop down and save...er,
ah....which group of religious murderers??

This superstitious phenomenon of the upper life forms may be the reason
life cycles through a few million years then suddenly commits suicide for
no apparent reason. There may a limit to how much "intelligence" life can
withstand before that "intelligence" becomes its own death sentence,
committing itself to self-destruction through the very death machines that
big brain has superstitiously invented to terminate its species.

5,500+ humans die each day over religion. How utterly stupid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGpO1lQrLY


Of course there is a God.

The Jewish God told Moses that Palestine was the Jewish home land and
it was O.K. to rape and riot among the indigenous people. Allah told
Muhammad to take up arms against all non-believers. The Gods on
Olympus looked with favor on the troops attacking Troy. The Christian
God certainly has favored some dramatic activities and even today I
have the idea that Bush probably believes that he is doing "God's
Work" in the middle east.

God is, as they say, on the side of the big battalions.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:59:29 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
.. .
Bruce In Bangkok wrote in
:

As far as the "cause of peace" it is somewhat difficult to have a
peace with folks who hate you, who's religion (and don't think that
the Palestinians aren't true believers) teaches them that outsiders,
infidels, have no rights and should be eradicated if they don't
convert.



It's not just Islam, it's ALL OF THEM! Every relgion on the planet has a
long history of genocide, proving beyond any shadow of a doubt there is no
"god" and certainly no "saviour" who's gonna swoop down and save...er,
ah....which group of religious murderers??

This superstitious phenomenon of the upper life forms may be the reason
life cycles through a few million years then suddenly commits suicide for
no apparent reason. There may a limit to how much "intelligence" life can
withstand before that "intelligence" becomes its own death sentence,
committing itself to self-destruction through the very death machines that
big brain has superstitiously invented to terminate its species.

5,500+ humans die each day over religion. How utterly stupid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkGpO1lQrLY



While not perfect, Buddhism does a decent job at restraint...

"As the Buddha states in the Brahma Net Sutra: "If a child of Buddha himself
kills, or goads someone else to kill, or provides with or suggests means for
killing, or praises the act of killing or, on seeing someone commit the act,
expresses approval for what that person has done, or kills by way of
incantations, or is the cause, occasion, means, or instrument of the act of
inducing a death, he will be shut out of the community."


True that the Buddha taught that life is pain and one must look inward
for the answers but some of his adherents seem to interpret the
teachings to mean one should fight against evil doers in the secular
world. Witness the Monks in Vietnam and Siri Lanka who are/were
extremely active politically as well as the Monks in Burma who
recently protested the military government's actions.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 17:53:23 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:44:17 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:08:48 -0600, wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:12:22 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:


Are they innocent? they elected Hamus an openly terrorist organization
who advocate the forcible eradication of Israel.

Is that really innocent?
Cheers,

The children did that?

Nope, the voters did that but as the "children" throw stones at
Israeli soldiers and otherwise do their best to incite the situation
how innocent can one consider them?

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I consider the children mostly innocent. They do what most children do...
follow their role models' lead. I understand why the adults voted in
Hamas;
Israel should have, could have, and should do more for the cause of peace,
but that does not excuse the indescriminate firing of rockets and the
calls
for the descruction of Israel by the Hamas leadership. Both need to end.

I wonder whether you would find the "child" who carried a bomb into
the restaurant where it exploded killing your wife/child/loved one so
innocent as you feel at the moment sitting safely at home watching the
T.V.

As far as the "cause of peace" it is somewhat difficult to have a
peace with folks who hate you, who's religion (and don't think that
the Palestinians aren't true believers) teaches them that outsiders,
infidels, have no rights and should be eradicated if they don't
convert.

To get an impression of Islamic beliefs understand that it is 1430 in
the Islamic calendar. Review Christian history for the mid 1400's A.D.
and it will give you a fairly accurate picture.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I probably wouldn't but the child would be innocent and would have been used
by an adult. Children's brains are not sufficiently developed to guarantee
knowing right from wrong. That's why we don't as a rule execute kids.

It is difficult, as you say, but it's not impossible. I also believe that
most people, without regard to religion, would prefer peace and coexistence
to war and death. Islam is not a "violent" religion, any more than
Christianity or Judism.


I disagree with you. If you believe that Islam is not a violent
religion read the Koran. It is full of instructions regarding how
non-believers are to be treated. Most of them harshly. The propaganda
that Islam is a religion of submission and thus a peaceful religion if
just that propaganda. Islam is a religion of submission - submission
to the will of God and does not include non-believers inside the magic
circle.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)