On Thu, 20 May 2004 18:46:41 -0400, DSK wrote:

It's possible to adjust headstay tension & rake with a B&R rig, it's
just not quite as simple as with a more conventional rig.

============================================

The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

Wayne.B wrote:
The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

That's not how you adapt that rig anyway, it's not like a regular frac
rig where pulling the backstay is the first reef. With the full batten
big roach main, the first step to depower is to let it twist more, the
next step is to either take in the jib (which is small, these rigs don't
carry genoas) or reef.

The racing dinghy rigs had a wire to a set of reverse jumpers to bend
the upper mast. This depowered the rig nicely. Newer boats achieve the
same thing using a flexy composite top mast section.



Marc wrote:
Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983.

Well, they didn't start putting them on production boats until a few
years later.


.... In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom

Everything has a place. I'd bet you didn't think much of Hunter's
"Vision" series either....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.

A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

On Thu, 20 May 2004 21:42:08 -0400, DSK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

That's not how you adapt that rig anyway, it's not like a regular frac
rig where pulling the backstay is the first reef. With the full batten
big roach main, the first step to depower is to let it twist more, the
next step is to either take in the jib (which is small, these rigs don't
carry genoas) or reef.

The racing dinghy rigs had a wire to a set of reverse jumpers to bend
the upper mast. This depowered the rig nicely. Newer boats achieve the
same thing using a flexy composite top mast section.



Marc wrote:
Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983.

Well, they didn't start putting them on production boats until a few
years later.


.... In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom

Everything has a place. I'd bet you didn't think much of Hunter's
"Vision" series either....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Marc wrote:
Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.


http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...16&fno=0&bts=T

http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...24&fno=0&bts=T

I suggest you take another look at the B&R rig. The boats you are
talking about are conventional rigs.



A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

I thought it was a great idea, but didn't care much for Hunter's
execution of it. The Freedoms are much better designed and much better
built... and of course, much much more expensive.

FWIW my favorite of the Freedom boats is the old 40 cat ketch.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The H27 model you reference is not the 27 I'm thinking of. The H 27
I'm (possibly mistakenly) referring to is a smaller version of the H31
of your second link.

The H 31 in your second link does indeed have a B&R rig made by Isomat
with an Isomat boom. the Isomat B& R Mast Head Rig had double swept
back spreaders with double overlapping integral diamond adjustable
stays to induce mast bend. Cap, mid and lower shrouds to an inboard
chainplate. Extruded track on forward section of mast and mid mast
sheeve for an adjustible spinnaker car. Also equipped with a high
split rear stay to accomodate an aft boarding ladder.

http://www.sailboatowners.com/album/...07468631&bts=T

The above URL give a better view of the rig



On Fri, 21 May 2004 06:41:13 -0400, DSK wrote:

Marc wrote:
Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.


http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...16&fno=0&bts=T

http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...24&fno=0&bts=T

I suggest you take another look at the B&R rig. The boats you are
talking about are conventional rigs.



A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

I thought it was a great idea, but didn't care much for Hunter's
execution of it. The Freedoms are much better designed and much better
built... and of course, much much more expensive.

FWIW my favorite of the Freedom boats is the old 40 cat ketch.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Marc wrote:
The H 31 in your second link does indeed have a B&R rig made by Isomat
with an Isomat boom. the Isomat B& R Mast Head Rig had double swept
back spreaders with double overlapping integral diamond adjustable
stays to induce mast bend.

I wouldn't call that a B&R rig, for one things it's a masthead with a
backstay. It's got some of the elements of the B&R though, kind of a
*******ized stepchild. With the standing backstay, it can't have a big
roachy mainsail, with the wide double spreaders it can't set a genoa
properly.

No wonder you thought it was a horrible rig. This looks like it has all
the B&R faults and none of the benefits. What were they thinking?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bergstrom & Ridder have been designing rigs since 1972. The patented
characteristics of a B&R rig are the diagonal diamonds, in lieu of
running back stays, and swept back spreaders with a small mast
section. This rig was first seen on Thursday's Child, built in 1983.
That B&R rig was incorporated as a masthead rig with back stay on all
subsequent Hunters. In 1989, Thursday's Child was re- fit with a
fractional B&R rig with no backstay, a precursor of all the new Hunter
rigs.

B&R designs have been incorporated into Hunters for the past 21 years,
first through Isomat, then some other fabricators, and now Seldon


On Fri, 21 May 2004 10:26:29 -0400, DSK wrote:



I wouldn't call that a B&R rig, for one things it's a masthead with a
backstay. It's got some of the elements of the B&R though, kind of a
*******ized stepchild. With the standing backstay, it can't have a big
roachy mainsail, with the wide double spreaders it can't set a genoa
properly.

No wonder you thought it was a horrible rig. This looks like it has all
the B&R faults and none of the benefits. What were they thinking?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King