Glenn Ashmore wrote:
That's right. The newer Hunters have adapted the B&R rig from the
Hunter's Child. Chopped a lot of weight aloft by reducing the mast
section, adding mast support struts, deep swept spreaders reverse
diagonals and jumpers on some. It does save weight but adds a lot of
windage, causes a lot of chafe on the main down wind and is impossible
to adjust headstay tension.

It's possible to adjust headstay tension & rake with a B&R rig, it's
just not quite as simple as with a more conventional rig.

The B&R rig is poorly adapted for keelboats though. It was all the rage
among skiffs for a while, for example the world champ Int'l 14s had them
for a few years. But they have evolved past that now. It is a rig for
use in light fast boats that don't ease the main out very far going
downwind, because they always have apparent wind well forward.

Why Hunter decided to put it on their cruising boats, I don't know. Looks?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Thu, 20 May 2004 18:46:41 -0400, DSK wrote:

It's possible to adjust headstay tension & rake with a B&R rig, it's
just not quite as simple as with a more conventional rig.

============================================

The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983. The current incarnation with
inboard and out board chain plates, deeply swept back spreaders and
compression struts enables them to eliminate the back stay. In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom


On Thu, 20 May 2004 18:46:41 -0400, DSK wrote:

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
That's right. The newer Hunters have adapted the B&R rig from the
Hunter's Child. Chopped a lot of weight aloft by reducing the mast
section, adding mast support struts, deep swept spreaders reverse
diagonals and jumpers on some. It does save weight but adds a lot of
windage, causes a lot of chafe on the main down wind and is impossible
to adjust headstay tension.

It's possible to adjust headstay tension & rake with a B&R rig, it's
just not quite as simple as with a more conventional rig.

The B&R rig is poorly adapted for keelboats though. It was all the rage
among skiffs for a while, for example the world champ Int'l 14s had them
for a few years. But they have evolved past that now. It is a rig for
use in light fast boats that don't ease the main out very far going
downwind, because they always have apparent wind well forward.

Why Hunter decided to put it on their cruising boats, I don't know. Looks?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Wayne.B wrote:
The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

That's not how you adapt that rig anyway, it's not like a regular frac
rig where pulling the backstay is the first reef. With the full batten
big roach main, the first step to depower is to let it twist more, the
next step is to either take in the jib (which is small, these rigs don't
carry genoas) or reef.

The racing dinghy rigs had a wire to a set of reverse jumpers to bend
the upper mast. This depowered the rig nicely. Newer boats achieve the
same thing using a flexy composite top mast section.



Marc wrote:
Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983.

Well, they didn't start putting them on production boats until a few
years later.


.... In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom

Everything has a place. I'd bet you didn't think much of Hunter's
"Vision" series either....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.

A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

On Thu, 20 May 2004 21:42:08 -0400, DSK wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
The problem is that you can't really change headstay tension while
underway when you need to adapt to changing wind conditions.

That's not how you adapt that rig anyway, it's not like a regular frac
rig where pulling the backstay is the first reef. With the full batten
big roach main, the first step to depower is to let it twist more, the
next step is to either take in the jib (which is small, these rigs don't
carry genoas) or reef.

The racing dinghy rigs had a wire to a set of reverse jumpers to bend
the upper mast. This depowered the rig nicely. Newer boats achieve the
same thing using a flexy composite top mast section.



Marc wrote:
Hunter has had B& R rigs since 1983.

Well, they didn't start putting them on production boats until a few
years later.


.... In my
opinion an absolutely horrendous rig, but then, I sail a Freedom

Everything has a place. I'd bet you didn't think much of Hunter's
"Vision" series either....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Marc wrote:
Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.


http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...16&fno=0&bts=T

http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...24&fno=0&bts=T

I suggest you take another look at the B&R rig. The boats you are
talking about are conventional rigs.



A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

I thought it was a great idea, but didn't care much for Hunter's
execution of it. The Freedoms are much better designed and much better
built... and of course, much much more expensive.

FWIW my favorite of the Freedom boats is the old 40 cat ketch.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The H27 model you reference is not the 27 I'm thinking of. The H 27
I'm (possibly mistakenly) referring to is a smaller version of the H31
of your second link.

The H 31 in your second link does indeed have a B&R rig made by Isomat
with an Isomat boom. the Isomat B& R Mast Head Rig had double swept
back spreaders with double overlapping integral diamond adjustable
stays to induce mast bend. Cap, mid and lower shrouds to an inboard
chainplate. Extruded track on forward section of mast and mid mast
sheeve for an adjustible spinnaker car. Also equipped with a high
split rear stay to accomodate an aft boarding ladder.

http://www.sailboatowners.com/album/...07468631&bts=T

The above URL give a better view of the rig



On Fri, 21 May 2004 06:41:13 -0400, DSK wrote:

Marc wrote:
Hunter put a B&R rig on the 1983 H27, and H31, the 1984 H34 and H40.
I owned A 1984 H31 with the B& R Rig.


http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...16&fno=0&bts=T

http://www.sailboatowners.com/boats/...24&fno=0&bts=T

I suggest you take another look at the B&R rig. The boats you are
talking about are conventional rigs.



A lot of people didn't think much of the Vision series. That was the
problem.

I thought it was a great idea, but didn't care much for Hunter's
execution of it. The Freedoms are much better designed and much better
built... and of course, much much more expensive.

FWIW my favorite of the Freedom boats is the old 40 cat ketch.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Marc wrote:
The H 31 in your second link does indeed have a B&R rig made by Isomat
with an Isomat boom. the Isomat B& R Mast Head Rig had double swept
back spreaders with double overlapping integral diamond adjustable
stays to induce mast bend.

I wouldn't call that a B&R rig, for one things it's a masthead with a
backstay. It's got some of the elements of the B&R though, kind of a
*******ized stepchild. With the standing backstay, it can't have a big
roachy mainsail, with the wide double spreaders it can't set a genoa
properly.

No wonder you thought it was a horrible rig. This looks like it has all
the B&R faults and none of the benefits. What were they thinking?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:09:48 GMT, Don W
wrote:


Congratulations. You've managed to join JAXashby as the only RBC
posters in my killfile. Goodbye plonk

Shouldn't that be glug!?

As in consigned to a watery grave of angry electrons.

R.

rhys wrote:
Don W wrote:

Congratulations. You've managed to join JAXashby as the only RBC
posters in my killfile. Goodbye plonk

Shouldn't that be glug!?

As in consigned to a watery grave of angry electrons.

I have known ill-used and oft-abused electrons, but I've yet to see an
electron react in anger.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/