"rhys" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure why you have a problem with "flat sliding doors" since I've
never
heard of a failure of one.

I just find large openings and flat surfaces on small vessels of any
type inappropriate from a windage viewpoint and POTENTIALLY from a
structural viewpoint. I don't like large companionways and tons of
fixed ports in the coachhouse for the same reason. It's not
particularly scientific, but there's a reason submarines and
shuttlecraft don't have screen doors, either. G


Or are you defining "seaworthiness" as something
that "looks proper" as opposed to something that has been proven safe with a
perfect safety record?

Perfect? Stats, please. Plenty of catamarans have gone missing in the
ocean...

Really? I've heard of a couple in the last 20 years ... can you point to any?
This is an odd issue, because people often claim cats flip, sink, or go missing,
but then are never able to provide examples. There are, of course, a few, but
very few compared to monohulls.

we had one kill two sailors in Lake Erie three years ago near
here in a line squall when it flipped and flooded.

Yes, it was a racing boat carrying full sail with spinnaker in the middle of the
night, only one man was on deck at the time. There is certainly no question
that racing cats and tris flip. Of course, racing monos also flip and often
sink.

If a catamaran went
down in the ocean, it would be hard to figure WHAT killed it, but a
large glass door in the cockpit can reasonably be assumed will let in
more following seas IF it fails.

Why? Most catamarams keep a dry cockpit in following seas. And in major storms
the preferred strategy is to lie to a sea anchor.

And engineering tells us everything
fails, eventually. Me, I would rather it was a couple of dropboards
YMMV. Some cats are more conservatively designed in this respect;
others go for the "sunroom effect".

Are you saying a Hunter is a safe boat because it has dropboards?

You could make the hypothetical case that sliding doors might not be safe in an
"ultimate storm" but certainly the majority of boats built have similar issues.
So are you simply saying that most cats are built as coastal cruisers, just like
most monohulls are?


Actually, I consider the door to be a major safety feature since you don't
have
to climb down a ladder to "go below."

Different strokes, I guess. I have plenty of handholds so I
essentially "drop" the four feet or so into the cabin. Racing cats, of
course, look like '50s fighter jets, with "blister" windscreens and a
minimum of deck clutter.

Modern cruising cats don't have a problem
with seas breaking in the cockpit because the sterns are quite bouyant and
lift
easily. In many cats the door is almost amidships, so its rather unlikely to
be
tested even in the worst conditions. And the cockpit drains are usually 3
inch
scuppers that drain directly below.

I know that traditionally, large comfortable cockpits are not considered the
safest for long passages, but they really aren't that bad on a cat.

Well, as I've said, while my experience with them is limited, I've
seen a few that seemed a bit more alert, so to speak, to the possibly
of tons of green water landing in an inconvenient spot.

Yes, there are certainly a number of cats designed specifically with ocean
passages in mind, just as there are a number of monohulls so designed. At the
other end of the spectrum there are cats suited only for coastal waters,
although they have made passages as "stunts," just like you hear of J30's making
passages.

One thing to remember about larger cruising cats is that they make a huge number
of passages. Almost every cat the Caribbean (a major part of the market) gets
there on its own bottom, usually from France or South Africa. Even my PDQ,
clearly a coastal design, has 30 or 40 Bermuda passages (the major charter fleet
uses that route), plus a least one Atlantic crossing.



South Africa builds some
apparently incredibly tough blue-water cats (they'd have to, given the
conditions there), and while I'd personally have to learn to sail 'em,
I'd let the brother buy one.


You'd figure it out real quick.

So I understand. Perhaps I should start with a tri...there are a few
F28s locally that are supposed to do 20 kts.

Now that might take a bit of learning. Last year I was waiting out some weather
in Plymouth, MA when a new F31 came in. He said they had just been doing about
17 knots reaching down from Boston. I was a bit envious until I went below -
but it did make me think about choices and alternatives.


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup
at the deli."

Really? I've heard of a couple in the last 20 years ... can you point to
any?
This is an odd issue, because people often claim cats flip, sink, or go
missing,
but then are never able to provide examples. There are, of course, a few,
but
very few compared to monohulls

there are thousands of mono's to every two huller out there.

There *IS* a reason for that. In fact, many sound reasons for that.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Really? I've heard of a couple in the last 20 years ... can you point to
any?
This is an odd issue, because people often claim cats flip, sink, or go
missing,
but then are never able to provide examples. There are, of course, a few,
but
very few compared to monohulls

there are thousands of mono's to every two huller out there.

There *IS* a reason for that. In fact, many sound reasons for that.

Once again, jax displays his total ignorance. In this country, there are
200,000 boats registered as "auxiliary sailboats." This includes many (probably
a majority) that are under 30 feet, so the number of sailboats that could be
compared to a cruising cat is probably well under 100,000. However, one
catamaran builder alone has built almost 1000 boats, and that number is likely
doubled by the other builders. This by itself is enough to prove that Jax is
off by at least a factor of forty. But looking to Europe we find that Prout
built about 5000 cats. Does that mean that there are 10,000,000 aux sailboats
in England? rather doubtful. Similar numbers have been built by the large
manufacturers in France, and now South Africa is building in large numbers.

Its pretty clear that the number of cats is growing. While I'm not sure the
number is 5% yet, it is getting close. Boston was never considered a catamaran
center, but every marina has at least some - the number is about 3% of the
sailboats. In my marina the number is over 10%!

the latest report to the choir from the pastor of The Church of Eternal
Enlightenment/TwoHulls.com is thus:

[yuk]

In this country, there are
200,000 boats registered as "auxiliary sailboats." This includes many
(probably
a majority) that are under 30 feet, so the number of sailboats that could be
compared to a cruising cat is probably well under 100,000. However, one
catamaran builder alone has built almost 1000 boats, and that number is
likely
doubled by the other builders. This by itself is enough to prove that Jax is
off by at least a factor of forty. But looking to Europe we find that Prout
built about 5000 cats. Does that mean that there are 10,000,000 aux
sailboats
in England? rather doubtful. Similar numbers have been built by the large
manufacturers in France, and now South Africa is building in large numbers.

Its pretty clear that the number of cats is growing. While I'm not sure the
number is 5% yet, it is getting close. Boston was never considered a
catamaran
center, but every marina has at least some - the number is about 3% of the
sailboats. In my marina the number is over 10%!