Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will not
cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water tank in the
forward end which will cause loss of space and another through hull fitting.
It is preferable to use one large tank for the whole boat.
Steve

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will not
cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water tank in the
forward end which will cause loss of space and another through hull fitting.
It is preferable to use one large tank for the whole boat.
Steve



In land based applications it's 1/4" per 12" of run.

Boats are entirely different because they can have a permanent heel or
trim. So I'd allow 1" per 12" on a small boat.

Evan Gatehouse

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will not
cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water tank in the
forward end which will cause loss of space and another through hull fitting.
It is preferable to use one large tank for the whole boat.

Why are you installing a gray water tank? Gray water (galley, bath and
shower water) can go directly overboard in all coastal waters and,
except for only 2 or 3 places, on all inland waterways too.

If you're mistakenly referring to toilet waste (black water) as gray
water, holding tanks should be within about 6' of the toilet--'cuz
that's as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time anyone
will spend flushing. So if you want to avoid leaving waste sitting the
line, a single large tank to serve two toilets at opposite ends of a
larger boat isn't a good solution.

If you're thinking of combining black water and gray water in the same
tank, CG regulations won't allow it. Gray water and black water plumbing
and tanks must be completely separate...can't even share a common vent.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie,
Thank you for your reply. No, I have no intention of combining black and
grey water. The application is a sailboat. Sailboats live on their ear. All
drains are effectively below the waterline. In that light, draining through
conventional water traps into a large grey water tank with one through hull
and a single pump and check valve allow facility useage under all points of
sail in all weather conditions. To me, this is highly desireable and is a
better solution than shutting all outboard drains in heavy weather. This
solution is not available to all designs. There must be adequate headroom
and bilge depth to facilitate it.
Steve


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will
not cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water tank
in the forward end which will cause loss of space and another through
hull fitting. It is preferable to use one large tank for the whole boat.

Why are you installing a gray water tank? Gray water (galley, bath and
shower water) can go directly overboard in all coastal waters and, except
for only 2 or 3 places, on all inland waterways too.

If you're mistakenly referring to toilet waste (black water) as gray
water, holding tanks should be within about 6' of the toilet--'cuz that's
as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time anyone will spend
flushing. So if you want to avoid leaving waste sitting the line, a single
large tank to serve two toilets at opposite ends of a larger boat isn't a
good solution.

If you're thinking of combining black water and gray water in the same
tank, CG regulations won't allow it. Gray water and black water plumbing
and tanks must be completely separate...can't even share a common vent.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Evan,
Thanks for the info. I also think 1/4" is too shallow, but I did not know
the recommended gradient. I will have to measure, but I think I can make 1"
per foot of run work.
Steve

"Evan Gatehouse2" wrote in message
...
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will
not cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water tank
in the forward end which will cause loss of space and another through
hull fitting. It is preferable to use one large tank for the whole boat.
Steve

In land based applications it's 1/4" per 12" of run.

Boats are entirely different because they can have a permanent heel or
trim. So I'd allow 1" per 12" on a small boat.

Evan Gatehouse

Have you considered installing sumps instead of a tank? Gray water
tanks, because they contain food particles, cooking grease, soap scum
body oils and a whole bunch of other thing are MUCH harder to maintain
and keep odor-free than black water tanks. Sumps, otoh, can easily be
flushed and cleaned...they'd solve your problem and be so much easier to
maintain than a tank.

Otoh, maybe what you're thinking IS a sump...how large a gray water tank
are you envisioning?

Peggie

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Peggie,
Thank you for your reply. No, I have no intention of combining black and
grey water. The application is a sailboat. Sailboats live on their ear. All
drains are effectively below the waterline. In that light, draining through
conventional water traps into a large grey water tank with one through hull
and a single pump and check valve allow facility useage under all points of
sail in all weather conditions. To me, this is highly desireable and is a
better solution than shutting all outboard drains in heavy weather. This
solution is not available to all designs. There must be adequate headroom
and bilge depth to facilitate it.
Steve


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will
not cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water tank
in the forward end which will cause loss of space and another through
hull fitting. It is preferable to use one large tank for the whole boat.
Why are you installing a gray water tank? Gray water (galley, bath and
shower water) can go directly overboard in all coastal waters and, except
for only 2 or 3 places, on all inland waterways too.

If you're mistakenly referring to toilet waste (black water) as gray
water, holding tanks should be within about 6' of the toilet--'cuz that's
as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time anyone will spend
flushing. So if you want to avoid leaving waste sitting the line, a single
large tank to serve two toilets at opposite ends of a larger boat isn't a
good solution.

If you're thinking of combining black water and gray water in the same
tank, CG regulations won't allow it. Gray water and black water plumbing
and tanks must be completely separate...can't even share a common vent.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304




--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Peggie,
Thank you for your reply. No, I have no intention of combining black and
grey water. The application is a sailboat. Sailboats live on their ear. All
drains are effectively below the waterline. In that light, draining through
conventional water traps into a large grey water tank with one through hull
and a single pump and check valve allow facility useage under all points of
sail in all weather conditions. To me, this is highly desireable and is a
better solution than shutting all outboard drains in heavy weather. This
solution is not available to all designs. There must be adequate headroom
and bilge depth to facilitate it.
Steve

I don't know Steve, it does depend on the boat and the location of the
sink. Our galley sink (well outboard under the side deck) on our 30'
monohull would fill slightly if the boat spent hours on one tack in
rough weather (heeling more than normal). Never enough to get on the
counter though.

The head sink was closer to centerline and never saw a drop from
heeling. Sinks closer to centerline are much better in this regard.

Oh if you do fit a sump tank, make sure you have a means to clean it
out often. Our shower sump tank got really funky when we showered
regularly.

Evan Gatehouse

Peggie,
Yes, your description is better than mine, it is a sump. The sump(tank) will
be about 10 to 15 gallons with a float switch for the pump.
Steve

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Have you considered installing sumps instead of a tank? Gray water tanks,
because they contain food particles, cooking grease, soap scum body oils
and a whole bunch of other thing are MUCH harder to maintain and keep
odor-free than black water tanks. Sumps, otoh, can easily be flushed and
cleaned...they'd solve your problem and be so much easier to maintain than
a tank.

Otoh, maybe what you're thinking IS a sump...how large a gray water tank
are you envisioning?

Peggie

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Peggie,
Thank you for your reply. No, I have no intention of combining black and
grey water. The application is a sailboat. Sailboats live on their ear.
All drains are effectively below the waterline. In that light, draining
through conventional water traps into a large grey water tank with one
through hull and a single pump and check valve allow facility useage
under all points of sail in all weather conditions. To me, this is highly
desireable and is a better solution than shutting all outboard drains in
heavy weather. This solution is not available to all designs. There must
be adequate headroom and bilge depth to facilitate it.
Steve


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will
not cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water
tank in the forward end which will cause loss of space and another
through hull fitting. It is preferable to use one large tank for the
whole boat.
Why are you installing a gray water tank? Gray water (galley, bath and
shower water) can go directly overboard in all coastal waters and,
except for only 2 or 3 places, on all inland waterways too.

If you're mistakenly referring to toilet waste (black water) as gray
water, holding tanks should be within about 6' of the toilet--'cuz
that's as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time anyone
will spend flushing. So if you want to avoid leaving waste sitting the
line, a single large tank to serve two toilets at opposite ends of a
larger boat isn't a good solution.

If you're thinking of combining black water and gray water in the same
tank, CG regulations won't allow it. Gray water and black water plumbing
and tanks must be completely separate...can't even share a common vent.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304




--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Steve Lusardi wrote:
The sump(tank) will
be about 10 to 15 gallons with a float switch for the pump.

When you were describing it as "large gray water tank" I had visions of
something 30+ gallons. 10 is easily manageable...15 can be managed,
but not as easily. Since it'll be pumped overboard automatically, you
may even find that 5-6 is large enough unless you have a cast of
thousands aboard, all running water at the same time.

There's an easy way to keep both the tank and the float switch clean and
sweet smelling without ever having to manually clean either one: Raritan
C.P. is a bio-enzymatic cleaner that not only destroys odor on contact,
but the enzymes in it "eat" hair, soap scum, grease and all the other
stuff that turns a sump into a smelly primordial soup. Fill the sump at
least half full with clean water and put about 4 oz down a drain--or an
ounce or two down each one of the drains--when it can stand at least
overnight...then flush the sump out with plenty of clean fresh water.

It's the only job on boat that I know of that requires -0- manual labor.

Peggie


Steve

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Have you considered installing sumps instead of a tank? Gray water tanks,
because they contain food particles, cooking grease, soap scum body oils
and a whole bunch of other thing are MUCH harder to maintain and keep
odor-free than black water tanks. Sumps, otoh, can easily be flushed and
cleaned...they'd solve your problem and be so much easier to maintain than
a tank.

Otoh, maybe what you're thinking IS a sump...how large a gray water tank
are you envisioning?

Peggie

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Peggie,
Thank you for your reply. No, I have no intention of combining black and
grey water. The application is a sailboat. Sailboats live on their ear.
All drains are effectively below the waterline. In that light, draining
through conventional water traps into a large grey water tank with one
through hull and a single pump and check valve allow facility useage
under all points of sail in all weather conditions. To me, this is highly
desireable and is a better solution than shutting all outboard drains in
heavy weather. This solution is not available to all designs. There must
be adequate headroom and bilge depth to facilitate it.
Steve


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that will
not cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey water
tank in the forward end which will cause loss of space and another
through hull fitting. It is preferable to use one large tank for the
whole boat.
Why are you installing a gray water tank? Gray water (galley, bath and
shower water) can go directly overboard in all coastal waters and,
except for only 2 or 3 places, on all inland waterways too.

If you're mistakenly referring to toilet waste (black water) as gray
water, holding tanks should be within about 6' of the toilet--'cuz
that's as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time anyone
will spend flushing. So if you want to avoid leaving waste sitting the
line, a single large tank to serve two toilets at opposite ends of a
larger boat isn't a good solution.

If you're thinking of combining black water and gray water in the same
tank, CG regulations won't allow it. Gray water and black water plumbing
and tanks must be completely separate...can't even share a common vent.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304




--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Thanks Peggie. Your expert help is very welcome.
Steve

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
. ..
Steve Lusardi wrote:
The sump(tank) will be about 10 to 15 gallons with a float switch for the
pump.

When you were describing it as "large gray water tank" I had visions of
something 30+ gallons. 10 is easily manageable...15 can be managed, but
not as easily. Since it'll be pumped overboard automatically, you may even
find that 5-6 is large enough unless you have a cast of thousands aboard,
all running water at the same time.

There's an easy way to keep both the tank and the float switch clean and
sweet smelling without ever having to manually clean either one: Raritan
C.P. is a bio-enzymatic cleaner that not only destroys odor on contact,
but the enzymes in it "eat" hair, soap scum, grease and all the other
stuff that turns a sump into a smelly primordial soup. Fill the sump at
least half full with clean water and put about 4 oz down a drain--or an
ounce or two down each one of the drains--when it can stand at least
overnight...then flush the sump out with plenty of clean fresh water.

It's the only job on boat that I know of that requires -0- manual labor.

Peggie


Steve

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Have you considered installing sumps instead of a tank? Gray water
tanks, because they contain food particles, cooking grease, soap scum
body oils and a whole bunch of other thing are MUCH harder to maintain
and keep odor-free than black water tanks. Sumps, otoh, can easily be
flushed and cleaned...they'd solve your problem and be so much easier to
maintain than a tank.

Otoh, maybe what you're thinking IS a sump...how large a gray water tank
are you envisioning?

Peggie

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Peggie,
Thank you for your reply. No, I have no intention of combining black
and grey water. The application is a sailboat. Sailboats live on their
ear. All drains are effectively below the waterline. In that light,
draining through conventional water traps into a large grey water tank
with one through hull and a single pump and check valve allow facility
useage under all points of sail in all weather conditions. To me, this
is highly desireable and is a better solution than shutting all
outboard drains in heavy weather. This solution is not available to all
designs. There must be adequate headroom and bilge depth to facilitate
it.
Steve


"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
.. .
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Does anyone know what the mimimum slope of this drain can be that
will not cause clogging? I really do not want to use a second grey
water tank in the forward end which will cause loss of space and
another through hull fitting. It is preferable to use one large tank
for the whole boat.
Why are you installing a gray water tank? Gray water (galley, bath and
shower water) can go directly overboard in all coastal waters and,
except for only 2 or 3 places, on all inland waterways too.

If you're mistakenly referring to toilet waste (black water) as gray
water, holding tanks should be within about 6' of the toilet--'cuz
that's as far as bowl contents will move in the amount of time anyone
will spend flushing. So if you want to avoid leaving waste sitting the
line, a single large tank to serve two toilets at opposite ends of a
larger boat isn't a good solution.

If you're thinking of combining black water and gray water in the same
tank, CG regulations won't allow it. Gray water and black water
plumbing and tanks must be completely separate...can't even share a
common vent.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems
and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304




--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304