some of the bigger ones i have seen on ebay claim that they can be used that
way. some manufacturers build theirs purposely for this, and have a hybrid
mode too which looks interesting. the bigger ones i have seen go up to an
equivallent of 48hp, but they're not cheap and still require a seprate sahft
and prop. they list full specs on what sort of speeds you have to be
sailing at to get full current from them.

the hybrid drive looks the most interesting to me.

Shaun

I have often wondered this too. I suspect that to optimize as a
generator, you'd want a different prop (bigger, lower pitch?)

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

Any chance you can supply us with the manufacturer's name or url?

BS

Shaun Van Poecke wrote:
some of the bigger ones i have seen on ebay claim that they can be used that
way. some manufacturers build theirs purposely for this, and have a hybrid
mode too which looks interesting. the bigger ones i have seen go up to an
equivallent of 48hp, but they're not cheap and still require a seprate sahft
and prop. they list full specs on what sort of speeds you have to be
sailing at to get full current from them.

the hybrid drive looks the most interesting to me.

Shaun

I have often wondered this too. I suspect that to optimize as a
generator, you'd want a different prop (bigger, lower pitch?)

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

i had to find a completed listing, they dont have one for sale right now - a
bad sign? the company name is Thoosa, and the biggest they offer on ebay is
equivalent to 44hp, not 48. here's the complete ebay ad if you're
interested with specs etc. the list the site www.asmomarine.com but i
think thats just the australian importer. i didnt look at the site. the ad
has a lot of hype in it and most of the specs probably need to be taken with
a grain of salt. the regeneration doesnt look really exciting until you get
to 7 knots giving 200-600watts. it doesnt even start until you get to 5
knots. im hoping these things will come down a *lot* in price by the time i
get around to building my dream 65 foot aluminum catamaran... a couple of
these would be handy.

general disclaimer - this is not an endoresment, not affiliated etc, dont
even own one, never seen one in real life blah blah blah

Shaun

DIRECT FROM THE IMPORTER
Tired of a clapped out noisy fossil fuel motor, want to save room on board -
then consider the cleaner and more reliable alternative of our Thoosa
Electric motors. Our Danish supplier is the world leader in electric
propulsion systems for the marine industry.

Electric motors as main propulsion for boats are not new, in fact the very
first propulsion for boats was electric, since it dates back to before the
internal combustion engine. Electric motor based propulsion for leisure
boats, especially sailboats, is rapidly emerging.

Present installed base in the sailboat market is almost entirely diesel
engines. The competitive edge for electric propulsion is that it is
environmentally friendly, no missions or fumes, no fuel spills and no
acoustical noise.

Performance characteristics also dictate that a certain horsepower size
diesel engine can be replaced with an electric motor of approximately half
the horsepower such that it is much lighter and takes up less space. This
will also yield an overall higher efficiency.

A comparison to hybrid drives for cars can be made, even though there is no
internal combustion engine needed here, because the operation always takes
place at lower speeds where the electric motor is far superior in
performance to a gas or diesel engine. This is exactly what the hybrid
drives for cars take advantage of, operating on electric power at low speeds
and the combustion engine at high speeds. Everyone who has driven a
petrol/diesel engine car with manual transmission knows how easy it is to
stall the engine when taking off. This will never happen with an electric
motor, simply because maximum torque is available at any speed.

Since the electric propulsion systems we are offering runs entirely on
battery power, without the engine, other ways of charging the batteries must
be used. This, however, is one of the other innovative characteristics of
our drives system, it is capable of charging the batteries when operating
under sail. In this situation, the propeller works as a source of power, a
parallel to hydropower.

The below prices are our retail prices.

Thoosa 3000 $6,950

Thoosa 6000 series (SOLD OUT)

Thoosa 7000RG $7,950

Thoosa 8500RG $7,950 (special price - only 1 x available)

Thoosa 9000RG $8,950

The above price includes motor, motor console brackets, reduction
gearing,belt & safety cover, motor control unit, variable speed
forward/reverse throttle controller, key ignition, GST & freight.

The Thoosa 7000 & 9000 series are able to include a dual voltage switch
which enables the boat to operate from a 24V battery bank for slow motoring
(giving extra distance) or the 48V bank when more power or speed is
required.

Our supplier is soon to introduce the Thoosa 12000 (60V, 28-34hp) and Thoosa
14000 (72V, 38-44hp) systems. We anticipate the prices to be around the the
$9,500- $10,500 price range.

Our boat is fitted with the Thoosa 6000 & 48V/215Ah Trojan batteries and
with a 2.5 tonne displacement, we are comfortable able to cruise at 4 knots
for at least 6hrs before needing to recharge.

Our battery supplier is Exide/Trojan. PRICES BELOW ARE ONLY FOR OUR LOYAL
CLIENTS.

48V - 131Ah Exide wet cell deep cycle (8 x 6V) $850

48V - 215Ah Trojan wet cell deep cycle (8 x 6V) $1,400 - 264mm L x 181mm W x
272mm H

48V - 115Ah Exide wet cell deep cycle (4 x 12V) $750

48V - 111Ah Remco sealed deep cycle (4 x 12V) $920 - totally maintenance
free

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE BATTERY PRICES ARE HALVED FOR THE THOOSA 3000 (24V).

We like the Trojan 6V batteries as they are compact in size, able to be
carried by one person easily and able to be placed in the tightest of
spaces.

Any batteries that you require now or in the future can be purchased at our
cost price. Dry cell batteries are also ideally applicable and a costing can
be obtained upon request.

Optional Accessories at cost prices a

· 48V Battery monitor, prescaler & shunt $650

· DC-DC convertor 48V/12V $550

· Battery charger 230V-48V/15A $750 An equivalent battery charger retails
locally with another distributor for $1,899 (larger sizes also available).

· Engine & shaft couplings $140 each (exisitng diesel couplings can be
reused)

Gensets, BP solar panels and regulators etc, wind generators and engine
mounts are also available at cost prices now and in the future. We can
obtain BP solar panels for you at approx 35% discount from RRP.

Although there is no vibration form the electric motor, we recommend fitting
engine mounts so that the vibration from prop does not reach the hull. We
can supply 4 x Polyflex engine mounts for $420 (www.polyflex.com).

Characteristics of the Thoosa system a Superior performance compared to
diesel, Very safe and reliable, No harmful emissions, No fumes, No fuel
spillage, Quiet and vibration free, Less weight and volume, Virtually
maintenance free, No fossil fuel dependency, No hassles with unstable fuel,
Uses very little energy overall (self-charging when under sail).

Better Acceleration: Internal combustion engines idle at 700-800 rpm because
that is typically the lowest speed they are capable of maintaining a
rotation at all. In order to develop a considerable amount of torque, enough
to drive the boat forward, the rpm must be 1500-2000 rpm. From then on the
torque output increases with rpm up to 3600 rpm, which is the speed where
maximum output torque, and therefore, power is achieved; but power does not
drive the boat forward, torque does.

Our electric propulsion system has an idle speed of 0 rpm and develops full
torque at any speed if it runs at full current. This is called constant
torque operation (CT) and is unique to electrical motors. What does this
mean? It means you have a very high torque available for acceleration.

Better Maneuvering: With the constant torque operation of this system, you
can get up to a certain speed much quicker which also means increased
maneuverability without radical motor rpm changes. This system is controlled
by only one lever, the throttle. With this system it is possible to go
directly from full speed in one direction to full speed in the opposite
direction without any damage to the system, and even better, you will see
immediate reaction.

No Need Warming Up: Diesel engines need to warm up. You have to start the
engine and then wait 5-10 minutes while it warms up, all the while, you're
just itching to get out there. No wait with the electrical system, you turn
it on and GO.

No Fuel Costs: With the Thoosa regenerative electric propulsion system, you'll
never have to stop at the fuel dock. You can zip out to sea while other
sailors have to stop to fuel up with ever increasing fuel prices. Imagine
the money you'll save in the long run. That goes for when you refuel as well
as when you are under power and unburned fuel is led through the exhaust
directly into the water. Another aspect is the internal spillage of fuel
from leaks which ends up in the bilge. Now it becomes a safety issue,
especially with gasoline, when you have an explosive substance next to an
electrical bilge pump.

No fumes: (Well, actually, no emissions, period!) I know that it always
bothered me when I started up my diesel and a big cloud of nauseating smoke
emerged from the stern, engulfing the entire boat. I felt bad for my
neighbors as well, and, of course below there was always the smell of
diesel.

No fossil fuel dependency: In this day and age, this is a subject that is
discussed daily, with good reason, since demand and prices are increasing
and reserves are decreasing.

Uses very little energy overall: The Thoosa electric propulsion system (RG)
is self-charging when under sail.

Virtually Silent: Imagine being in the middle of some tricky maneuvering
approaching the dock and not having to shout over the dull roar of the
standard diesel engine. You'd be able to talk and be able to hear what is
going on, which all make things a lot safer and a lot more pleasant.
Furthermore, the electric motor is so well balanced that there is no
vibration at all. So whether you are motoring or regenerating there is no
noise or shuddering. Absolutely quiet!

Low Maintenance: No oil changes in engine or gearbox. No fuel or oil filters
to be concerned about. No foreign elements clogging up fuel lines. No
mechanical connections or cables to be worried about failing at the moment
where you definitely do not want it to happen.

Maintenance is virtually non existent. The only maintenance required is to
change the gearing belt after 8,000 running hours and the engine brushes
after 6,000 running hours, both tasks can be completed within half an hour,
thus there is no 'down time' lost for maintenance or repairs etc. This will
also represent a saving of money over the years. I have been advised by
Schionning Multihulls that they have only motored for 660hrs to sail around
Australia so there is plently of years life expectancy before any minor
servicing is required.

Clean Engine Room: With the Thoosa electric propulsion system, dirty diesel
engines are a thing of the past. Since it requires very little attention and
there are no oily fluids involved, you'll never have to walk around with
dirty hands. Your engine room will be neat and oil free. Also, think of all
the room you'll save since the bulky diesel engine will be swapped out for
the much more space saving Thoosa.

Easy To Install: The Thoosa electric propulsion system has less weight and
volume than your typical diesel engine so it is much easier to install. This
may not seem like a major point, but there are certain things that become
possible with this system. It becomes easier to install because no component
weighs more than 30 pounds (not counting the batteries). Since very little
heat is created as a benefit of the high system efficiency, the engine room
can be made smaller. Even though the electric system takes up less space
than the diesel or gasoline engine, the space occupied by the exhaust system
and the cooling water intake can now be utilized for other purposes

I have also included some frequently asked questions and answers which I
believe will provide usefull information.

1. In regards to regenerating, what speed does the boat need to sail before
regenerating kicks in ?

A: Regenerating starts at 4 knots but it doesn't give much at that speed.
The amount recharged is dependant on the hull, placement of rudder, prop
etc. Tests in different boats have shown:

5 knots: 100-250 watt, 6 knots: 150-400 watt, 7 knots: 200-600 watt

The Thoosa system has the ability to regenerate (RG models) energy for
charging the batteries. The energy used getting from dock to open water can
be regained later when under sail. It typically only takes 10 - 15 minutes
to get out there and you may stay out for hours. Assuming there is a good
breeze, it is possible to regenerate when the electrical propulsion system
is left on. This means that the system needs little or no charging later on.
This is very helpful when staying at sea for an extended period of time. For
a comparison, our two x 150watt (total 300w) Bp solar panels which we have
fitted to our boat recharge at about 5-6 amps per hour. The controller is
programmed for a maximum voltage output at regeneration. An amplifier
optimises the regeneration at the current speed.

As a general rule, the recharging starts at 4-5 knots and doubles, when you
go up one knot. We only recommend to recharge up to speed of 10 knots - as
we assume you will here reach the max RPM for the engine. Further the motor
is as good as a generator - as an engine. The amount of recharging therefore
depends of your sailing speed, the chosen prop and where the engine is
fitted. The folding prop's are about 5-10% less effective than a fixed
propeller.

2. What are the recommended prop sizes for optimal regenerating ?

A: Thoosa 6000

2 blade folding: 14" - pitch 10, 3 blade fixed: 14" - pitch 11

For Thoosa 8500

2 blade folding: 15" - pitch 11, 3 blade fix: 15"- pitch 11

For Thoosa 9000

2 blade folding: 16" - pitch 11, 3 blade fix: 16" - pitch 11

With a smaller prop blade, the optimal regenerating can also be achieved if
the blade pitch is increased. The Thoosa system is designed to operate from
standing running gear including fixed or folding props.

3. If anything was to go wrong with the controller unit, do I need any spare
parts for long distance passage ?

A: The controller unit is also used for high-end electric trucks and
forklifts. Our supplier has never experienced a malfunction on the
controller in a boat installation. In case of malfunction, the batteries can
be plugged directly to the engine and any chossen voltage (Thoosa 8500 runs
at 60RPM per volt). Controlling the speed would then be governed by
connecting and disconnecting the batteries.

4. What are the warranty conditions ?

A: The system is backed by a 2 year warranty

5. Can the motor overheat ?

A: No, in the event of overheating, the motor controller is protected
against overheating by reducing the current drawn, until the temperature has
reduced.

6. Is there an option for a double set of controls - one in the cockpit and
the other in the cabin ?

A: Yes, two throttles can be connected to the one motor control unit. This
is available as a custom supply.

7. In the event of the propeller suddenly stopping as a result of weed or
rope becoming entangled around it, will the motor continue to run and burn
out as a result ?

A: No, the controller is fitted with a auto trip switch which will cut the
motor out within 5 seconds of the propeller suddenly coming to a stop.

8. How reliable are the Thoosa electric systems ?

A: They are claimed to be more reliable than diesel engines. In Europe,
water taxis etc (where reliability is the main issue) are converting to the
Thoosa system.

Anyone who has ever gotten behind the wheel has had that moment of doubt,
wondering if the engine will turn over and start. Internal combustion
engines are very complicated machines, and the more parts they are made up
of, the more can go wrong. This inconvenience disappears with electric
propulsion. With our system, you turn the key and you're ready to go. Every
time. Since there are very few parts to these drives, there is not a whole
lot that can go wrong and the reliability increases greatly.

9. The product website states that the electric motor is more manouverable
than a conventional diesel motor. Why is this so ?

A: The electric motor has no losses through to the prop shaft so when the
throttle is opened up, instant power to the prop shaft is obtained. With the
Thoosa motor, the torque is amasing - it is possible to be travelling at 5
knots forwards and be going backwards within a boat length.

10. How much room do you save by replacing a diesel motor with the Thoosa
Electric motor ?

A: Apart from the physical size difference between the two motors, you save
room by not having any fuel tank, extra batteries etc. With a DC convertor
fitted - you convert the 48V battery bank back down to 12V eliminating the
need for extra house batteries. Mounted on the motor backets the physical
dimension of the Thoosa motor is approx 20cm wide x 30cm high x 20cm deep.

11. How simple is the installation process ?

A: Apart from not needing any heavy machinery to install the motor, it can
be easily carried on board as it only weighs 28kg. Installation of the
electrical system is made easy with 'plug and play' style connections.
Installation costs are also minimal due to the ease of installation.

12. How quiet is the Thoosa electric system ?

A: Extremely quiet, the noise you hear when the motor is running is from the
reduction gearing belt. When running the Thoosa motor at any speed you can
sit on the electric motor and engage in a pleasant mobile phone
conversation - try doing that with a diesel or petrol motor !

13. How can the battery bank be recharged ?

A: You can recharge the battery bank by a number of methods including solar
panels, wind generators, gensets and shore pwer. With the Regenerating
systems you can even recharge the batteries whilst under sail by using the
propeller as a dynamo. Whist using the prop for regenerating, it is ever so
slightly slowed down from free spinning causing a slight reduction in speed
which is unnoticable (0.02 knots) but for the serious racing competitor,
there is a regeneration dial on the control unit which can turn off this
function when not required meaning the prop will again free spin.

14. How long can you expect to motor for on a fully recharged battery bank ?

A: The motoring distance obtained depends on many factors including speed,
size of motor over displacement, water conditions and battery bank size etc.
Tests on smooth water on our 27ft, 2.5 tonne yacht fitted with the Thoosa
6000 and a 215Ah battery bank travelling at approx 4 knots (using average 25
amps/hr) gives up to 8 hours motoring time.

15. How efficient are the recharging sources for the Thoosa system ?

A: In summer, after motoring approx 1.5hrs at 4 knots to reach the Harbour
Bridge, our motor has consumed approx 20% of the energy. We then set the
sails and sail all day and when we return to the Bridge in the late
afternoon, our 2 x 150W solar panels have fully recharged the battery bank.
We then motor back and when we reach the mooring, the battery bank is back
down to 20% loss - at the end of the next day the panels have fully
recharged the battery bank again. Tests in winter show a recharging
reduction rate of approx 30-40 % - reason being, less daylight sun hours and
less strength in sun rays during winter.

The RG model would recharge at similar levels (summer or winter) provided
sailing along at least 5 knots. Having a battery charger and 2kw Honda
generator on board, the battery bank can be recharged 2-3 times quicker. An
efficient genset can give unlimited motoring hours at any speed.

16. What are the general thoughts from marine engineers and mechanics about
the Thoosa system ?

A: I have shown the system to many marine engineers who are so impressed
with its characteristics that they tell me that the Thoosa system has the
potential to take them out of business as no more regular servicing or
mainenance is required - their dependant regular income !

I trust that the supplied information will give you a good understanding of
the Thoosa electric motors charactertics and abilities. Further information
can also be obtained from the product website at www.asmomarine.com

If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact
me, I can mail further info if required such as a brochure, installation
booklet and performance specification chart.



"Bob S" wrote in message
...
Any chance you can supply us with the manufacturer's name or url?

BS

Shaun Van Poecke wrote:
some of the bigger ones i have seen on ebay claim that they can be used
that way. some manufacturers build theirs purposely for this, and have a
hybrid mode too which looks interesting. the bigger ones i have seen go
up to an equivallent of 48hp, but they're not cheap and still require a
seprate sahft and prop. they list full specs on what sort of speeds you
have to be sailing at to get full current from them.

the hybrid drive looks the most interesting to me.

Shaun

Thanks, Shaun.

BS

Shaun Van Poecke wrote:
i had to find a completed listing, they dont have one for sale right now - a
bad sign?