If you are in the NH seacoast region .. could you tell me who, where, I can
purchase mooring equipment.

I need a 6,000 block of granite according to the port auth. What I've seen
is a big old piece of rough cut granite with a hole through the middle and a
big old piece of metal through the hole which has a ring/loop on the top.
The mooring chain gets attached to the ring/loop.

Problem seems to be that the port auth sends mooring permit holders to a
couple of mooring setters. That isn't so bad but how can someone know how
much the granite is costing without talking to the supplier.

Anyway,, if you are in the NH seacoast and know about moorings, and mooring
equipment ??

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:02:55 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

If you are in the NH seacoast region .. could you tell me who, where, I can
purchase mooring equipment.

I need a 6,000 block of granite according to the port auth. What I've seen
is a big old piece of rough cut granite with a hole through the middle and a
big old piece of metal through the hole which has a ring/loop on the top.
The mooring chain gets attached to the ring/loop.

Problem seems to be that the port auth sends mooring permit holders to a
couple of mooring setters. That isn't so bad but how can someone know how
much the granite is costing without talking to the supplier.

So, you go out and talk to the farmer every time you want to buy a
pint of milk, just to see if the price you're asked to pay at the shop
is fair, by your (probably not knowing the difference) standards?

I'd have thought that the Authority in queston giving you the contact
details for a couple of suppliers forthe finished product have
actually done you a favour.....

The free-market forces of competition will now come into it.

You could've been left high and dry not knowing where to go, what to
do.....

How much is a pint of milk at the farm gate, asks he, knowing full
well that it doesn't pass through the farm gates as "pints" and
knowing, too, that even lumps of granite will also be subject to
value-adding along the way....?

Regards,

Bruce Nichol

Yo .. Bruce .... Ooops,,, I mean **** Head.,,

I didn't ask for a financial analysis of the economics of milk production.
What the F... is your problem?

Just so your feeble mind can absorb this: I am looking for mooring
equipment. A BIG MOORING BLOCK, A CHAIN, A PENNANT. IN AMERICA, WE HAVE A
FREE MARKET SYSTEM. THAT IS WHERE ONE SHOPS FOR THE BEST PRICE. IF THE
FIRST PRICE IS/WAS THE BEST PRICE .. GREAT. BUT IT WOULD BE DARN STUPID TO
ACCEPT ONLY ONE PRICE BEFORE TESTING THE MARKET.

Just so someone totally lacking in the language of economics can understand,
I will give you a lesson ..

Many years ago the milk price which the farmer received was a set price, as
in price control. The farmers, with help from politicians, set this up so
that they would receive a higher price per gallon and therefore avoid
competition. The farmer got more money, and the delivery company got their
same cut, but Mrs Smith paid a higher price than she should have. Did the
farmer re-invest his profit back into the farm? No way. He figured the
politicians would take care of him. Guess what happened, people started
drinking less milk. And cheese, and butter. Oh boy.. not good for business
said the delivery company. Then someone asked the farmer why he didn't
re-invest his profit back into the farm. As you can imagine, there wasn't a
very good answer.

As they say .. the gig was up.

Next thing you know, no price controls. Mr farmer must make his farm work
or go get another job. Many farmers went out of business. But not all.
Some got off their you know what and made their farms work better. And they
produced less milk .. so that the market would take over and keep the price
up. Now, up where I live, there are a lot less farmers producing milk.
But, there is just as much milk being produced. And, the farmers who are
producing milk, and doing it using modern methods, are making money. Not a
lot of money, but a profit. They are businessmen and women. What else?
They use the milk for many other purposes besides what is the traditional
product. Is the system perfect? Nope. But, it is a free market.

Which brings me back to the mooring block. The port auth has a list of
people who can put in moorings. They know these folks, and trust them.
They also told me that anyone can put the mooring in, in fact I can put in
my own mooring as long as I do it per code. Kinda like building a house,
you can do it or get a contractor. What I would like to do is a 1/2 me ...
/1/2 contract mooring placement. I will see about getting the block,
chain, etc and contract out the setting. I might save 1/3 of the original
price this way. And does my contractor care? Nope, in fact he told me I
was smart to look around so that I would understand the construction of my
mooring and therefore will know when it needs maintainence, or service.

There ya go Bruce ,, oops, I mean **** Head.

Now you can go back to washing those dishes and get ready for the lunch
crowd.

================================================== ==========



"Bruce Nichol" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:02:55 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

If you are in the NH seacoast region .. could you tell me who, where, I
can
purchase mooring equipment.

I need a 6,000 block of granite according to the port auth. What I've
seen
is a big old piece of rough cut granite with a hole through the middle and
a
big old piece of metal through the hole which has a ring/loop on the top.
The mooring chain gets attached to the ring/loop.

Problem seems to be that the port auth sends mooring permit holders to a
couple of mooring setters. That isn't so bad but how can someone know how
much the granite is costing without talking to the supplier.

So, you go out and talk to the farmer every time you want to buy a
pint of milk, just to see if the price you're asked to pay at the shop
is fair, by your (probably not knowing the difference) standards?

I'd have thought that the Authority in queston giving you the contact
details for a couple of suppliers forthe finished product have
actually done you a favour.....

The free-market forces of competition will now come into it.

You could've been left high and dry not knowing where to go, what to
do.....

How much is a pint of milk at the farm gate, asks he, knowing full
well that it doesn't pass through the farm gates as "pints" and
knowing, too, that even lumps of granite will also be subject to
value-adding along the way....?

Regards,

Bruce Nichol

'NE' . . .

I'm more of a Sharp Cheese, then milk, kind of a guy . . . here is my
comment on the situation . . .which hopefully is not just a 'troll'.

First - How BIG is your boat to need 3 TONS of mooring ?? I have a feeling
that this 'requirement' is more about the 'Granite State' then 'Chapman's
Piloting & Seamanship'. The reason I mention this tome is that it seems to
be the 'standard' by which any number of 'Authorities' set their Guidelines.
A 'double set' I can understand, but just 'dead weight' is considered fairly
low on the scale of effective 'permanent moorings'.

The other thing 'Chapmans' will illustrate to you is the number, variety,
and placement of the various items that make up a 'mooring'. Plus, if memory
serves, advice for an inspection, 'cycle'. Which brings up another question
about that Granite 'anchor'. We {the Red Dragon, one of the oldest Clubs on
the Delaware River}, used to pull our entire Mooring Field annually. We now
have a 3-year 'cycle'.This is so ALL of the components can be inspected &
replaced as necessary. The hauling & setting is done by the Club members,
with an 'A' frame & battery-powered winch on a float. With your 'required'
set-up, a hired diver, or the 'mooring setter's '. Either way, a costly
proposition.

To be specific about the 'tackle' . . . If the 'Authority' is specifying the
WEIGHT & STYLE of the 'Anchor', they should also be specifying the SIZE of
the bottom chain & riding chain. If not, see 'Chapman' for guidelines. The
chain size will govern the sizes of the shackles, swivels, ring, and buoy.
While the 'Mooring Buoy is a 'marine item' and it's markings specified by
the USCG, the rest ISN'T. This 'material' can be gotten from an 'Iron,
Chain, & Hardware' supplier at $X, or a 'Marine Supplier' at $XXX++. The
stuff itself can range from 'Galvanized' to Stainless Steel. Or a
combination. 'We' use a local industrial hardware supplier. We pick it out &
transport it ourselves. The preferred 'standard' is 'Hot Galvanized' chain &
'fittings'. My specific set-up . . . a 'double-set' with two Mushrooms {100
& 175 lbs.}, 2 - 30-foot 'legs' of 1/2in 'Hot Galvanized' bottom chain,
3/4in shackle & swivel, 32-feet of 5/16 riding chain, 3/8in swivel, and
3/8in Stainless Steel shackle, ring, buoy shackle, & pennant fittings.This
is 'over-kill' for a 19-foot, 1,500 pound boat.

I don't know about suppliers in NH, specifically, but check out Defender
Industries {Connecticut} and Hamilton Marine {Maine}. Both have on-line
sites and comprehensive 'paper' catalogs that have very good illustrations.
{nice 'winter reading' as well !!}

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:zNhph.3181$Br.246@trndny08...
If you are in the NH seacoast region .. could you tell me who, where, I
can
purchase mooring equipment.
SNIP

Hi Ron,, .. funny, I forgot to check Chapmans and I have one on my table.
Duh??

The weight issue: the mooring is going into a river that has current. The
bottom is rock, probably some sand/mud.

The big issue is the current. The Piscataqua river has one of the fastest
navigateable currents for rivers in US waters.

Basically, where I will be moored I will only be able to leave for the open
ocean or return 4 times a day. The two high tides, two lows.

I think this is why the weight becomes such a big issue.

I have been calling around. Granite is very dense so that a small rock can
have lots of weight. I think this is another reason the port wants granite.

I was thinking of making a frame, pour in concrete and also throw in some
scrap metal ... make a rebar inbedded block.

This would be heavy and strong. I will ask the harbor port guy what he
thinks.


The chaine/pennant/etc I can purchase at a marine supply house I found in
the area. Saved a bundle calling them.


The good thing about this is that I am learning. I always like to
understand what I am buying. This way I won't get taken .. at least not
much.


Thanks for your input.


"Ron Magen" wrote in message
news:IuMph.5928$3L1.2718@trndny03...
'NE' . . .

I'm more of a Sharp Cheese, then milk, kind of a guy . . . here is my
comment on the situation . . .which hopefully is not just a 'troll'.

First - How BIG is your boat to need 3 TONS of mooring ?? I have a feeling
that this 'requirement' is more about the 'Granite State' then 'Chapman's
Piloting & Seamanship'. The reason I mention this tome is that it seems to
be the 'standard' by which any number of 'Authorities' set their
Guidelines.
A 'double set' I can understand, but just 'dead weight' is considered
fairly
low on the scale of effective 'permanent moorings'.

The other thing 'Chapmans' will illustrate to you is the number, variety,
and placement of the various items that make up a 'mooring'. Plus, if
memory
serves, advice for an inspection, 'cycle'. Which brings up another
question
about that Granite 'anchor'. We {the Red Dragon, one of the oldest Clubs
on
the Delaware River}, used to pull our entire Mooring Field annually. We
now
have a 3-year 'cycle'.This is so ALL of the components can be inspected &
replaced as necessary. The hauling & setting is done by the Club members,
with an 'A' frame & battery-powered winch on a float. With your 'required'
set-up, a hired diver, or the 'mooring setter's '. Either way, a costly
proposition.

To be specific about the 'tackle' . . . If the 'Authority' is specifying
the
WEIGHT & STYLE of the 'Anchor', they should also be specifying the SIZE of
the bottom chain & riding chain. If not, see 'Chapman' for guidelines. The
chain size will govern the sizes of the shackles, swivels, ring, and buoy.
While the 'Mooring Buoy is a 'marine item' and it's markings specified by
the USCG, the rest ISN'T. This 'material' can be gotten from an 'Iron,
Chain, & Hardware' supplier at $X, or a 'Marine Supplier' at $XXX++. The
stuff itself can range from 'Galvanized' to Stainless Steel. Or a
combination. 'We' use a local industrial hardware supplier. We pick it out
&
transport it ourselves. The preferred 'standard' is 'Hot Galvanized' chain
&
'fittings'. My specific set-up . . . a 'double-set' with two Mushrooms
{100
& 175 lbs.}, 2 - 30-foot 'legs' of 1/2in 'Hot Galvanized' bottom chain,
3/4in shackle & swivel, 32-feet of 5/16 riding chain, 3/8in swivel, and
3/8in Stainless Steel shackle, ring, buoy shackle, & pennant
fittings.This
is 'over-kill' for a 19-foot, 1,500 pound boat.

I don't know about suppliers in NH, specifically, but check out Defender
Industries {Connecticut} and Hamilton Marine {Maine}. Both have on-line
sites and comprehensive 'paper' catalogs that have very good
illustrations.
{nice 'winter reading' as well !!}

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:zNhph.3181$Br.246@trndny08...
If you are in the NH seacoast region .. could you tell me who, where, I
can
purchase mooring equipment.
SNIP

I am in Maine but the same situation will apply. You may find savings in
bringing the block in from "outside" but what about future maintenance and
problems. It will need to be inspected every year and ultimately, the
lower shackle and then the chain will need to be replaced. Are you really
going to go to one of the guys you "outsmarted" to get help?
Dave

Yes.

====
"Dave W" wrote in message
...
I am in Maine but the same situation will apply. You may find savings in
bringing the block in from "outside" but what about future maintenance and
problems. It will need to be inspected every year and ultimately, the
lower shackle and then the chain will need to be replaced. Are you really
going to go to one of the guys you "outsmarted" to get help?
Dave

'NE',

I go back to 'My' mooring situation . . .

The Club mooring field is also on a river with a distinct 'tidal stream' -
maybe 3kts or more. Also, when we get heavy rains this increases incredibly
and telephone poles, trees, and even 'home size' propane tanks come down the
river.

Chapman's uses as it's 'baseline' the effects on Long Island Sound {at least
my old copy does}. The Red Dragon uses Chapman as it's reference. A couple
of the mooring anchors are Railroad Wheels, literally {about 900lbs plus}.
These are 'Grandfathered' because now ONLY ACTUAL 'Mooring Anchors' are
permitted. We all use 'Mushrooms' {up to 250 pounds} because these are the
easiest to get and can be 'self placed'. {There are two other types . . .
however they MUST be 'implanted' by a diver to be effective, and also
inspected by divers to maintain their guarantees. They CANNOT be 'hauled'
for inspection.}.

For added security, especially with the 'tidal changes / reversals', many of
us use the 'Double Set'. This places one anchor 'upstream', and the other
'downstream'. While not 'rocky', our river bed is hard sand. The concept of
the 'Mushroom' is to dig the 'ring' into this type of bottom, opposed to the
direction of pull. A 'double set' also prevents 'wrapping' - where the chain
winds around the anchor and shortens itself. Eventually, 'Tide goes 'up' . .
boat goes 'down'. Or riding chain breaks and boat goes . . . who knows where
!!

Again, it is NOT the 'weight' but the direction of pull. I was think of the
'frame & concrete' idea when I first joined the 'Dragon. I was going to use
a rubber tire on a 'plate', with a heavy steel 'U-loop' attached, and fill
it with concrete & scrap wheelweights. NO WAY !! Nor the 'old engine block'
stunt, either. The 'density' changes when immersed, concrete is porous, and
iron rusts {and swells and cracks apart the concrete}.

If the 'Port' is SPECIFYING 'Granite', they should have some written
'guidelines'. These SHOULD also specify the Bottom & Riding chain sizes.
Also - it sounds like the situation is similar to the Club - YOU are
responsible for YOUR mooring. YOU own it. A 'Mushroom'
set can be hauled and 'go with you' when you leave. I doubt that several
tons of Granite are worth the cost of bringing it up. If the 'Port' requires
this set-up . . . there should be any number of 'anchors' ALREADY on the
bottom. I'd ask BEFORE I did anything else.

Just as a 'by-the-by' . . . we had a couple of Granite 'columns' {about 3
feet square by about 12-15 feet long}lying down as 'borders' on the
waterfront parking area. One of the members got the idea to set them
vertically, near the 'water edge', to use as emergency 'tie-points'
{remember what I said about the rain-swollen river !!}. He was able to get
one of the local trash-trucks {the kind with forks for lifting the wheeled
trash bins}to pick them up and move them close to the holes. Big and heavy .
.. . to us. But not big and HEAVY in your type of situation.

What, may I ask, are you paying for the chain & pennant . . . at a 'Marine
Supply House' ? What kind & size ? We usually make our own pennents.
Typically 3-strand Nylon line. Most use no, or Nylon, thimbles. I'm trying
Stainless this year.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


----- Original Message -----
From: "NE Sailboat"
Newsgroups: rec.boats.building
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:09
Subject: Mooring Equipment, NH Seacoast Region Question/Info


Hi Ron,, .. funny, I forgot to check Chapmans and I have one on my
table.
Duh??
SNIP

First - How BIG is your boat to need 3 TONS of mooring ??

Without getting into the personalities, 3 tons of mooring granite is
not unusual in Maine. I have a 32 foot Pearson and the minimum granite
weight required by Rockland is 4,000 lbs with 6,000 recommended. A
friend who moors nearby recommended the higher amount, as he recalls a
boat similar to mine that dragged its 2 ton block (with appropriate
chain) over 60 feet in one storm. And our tides are only 8 to 10 feet.

As for the "free market," we are welcome to have whoever we want build
and set the mooring, but only those approved by the Harbormaster can
inspect and certify its condition and location. As a poor job
endangers other boats, etc., the Harbormaster is not being unreasonable
in setting standards and enforcing them.

I don't mind saving a buck, but it's good to remember that unlike other
shortcuts where deterioration can be easily spotted and remedied,
moorings are seldom inspected more than once a year (and frequently at
longer periods). And when you have a problem, it becomes big, fast and
the fix is not cheap. Do it right, the first time.

Steve Hayes