As many of you know, we're close to splashing our 2-year refit. It was
newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

How say you who have experienced this? Not hard, ablative, out of the
water for a couple of years essentially immediately after application?

If it has to be redone, do I have to take off the old paint as well?
Or, with a scuff-up, will the bottom adhere, and (perhaps?) re-activate
the old stuff?

Meanwhile, some of you who had previously asked have received an
invitation to join our yahoogroups log list. If you'd like to hear
about our adventures, join up with the link below...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery/
Follow us at

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

How can it die if it was never alive?
Hummm....

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...
As many of you know, we're close to splashing our 2-year refit. It was
newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

How say you who have experienced this? Not hard, ablative, out of the
water for a couple of years essentially immediately after application?

If it has to be redone, do I have to take off the old paint as well?
Or, with a scuff-up, will the bottom adhere, and (perhaps?) re-activate
the old stuff?

Meanwhile, some of you who had previously asked have received an
invitation to join our yahoogroups log list. If you'd like to hear
about our adventures, join up with the link below...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery/
Follow us at

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
oups.com:

As many of you know, we're close to splashing our 2-year refit. It was
newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

How say you who have experienced this? Not hard, ablative, out of the
water for a couple of years essentially immediately after application?

If it has to be redone, do I have to take off the old paint as well?
Or, with a scuff-up, will the bottom adhere, and (perhaps?) re-activate
the old stuff?

Contact the mfg of the paint and ask them. Each paint is different. The
Micron CSC that I use can remain out of the water for extended periods (I
don't know about 2 years), but other paints "die" after getting pulled out.

-- Geoff

Skip Gundlach wrote:
As many of you know, we're close to splashing our 2-year refit. It
was newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

How say you who have experienced this? Not hard, ablative, out of the
water for a couple of years essentially immediately after application?

If it has to be redone, do I have to take off the old paint as well?
Or, with a scuff-up, will the bottom adhere, and (perhaps?)
re-activate the old stuff?

Meanwhile, some of you who had previously asked have received an
invitation to join our yahoogroups log list. If you'd like to hear
about our adventures, join up with the link below...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery/
Follow us at

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

If it's a leaching antifouling it requires contact with (and movement thru)
water to leach it.

"Skip Gundlach" wrote
As many of you know, we're close to splashing our 2-year refit. It was
newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

You should ask paint manufacturer.

But what I would recommend, is to lightly sand the bottom to remove any
surface oxidation.

I would probably also apply one coat just to freshen it up.

Skip,

Simplest . . . if you still have the can . . . read the label. If not
contact the mfg. {the Internet is wonderful . . . sometimes}. Ask about the
SPECIFIC product, not just 'your ablative paints'.

I've been through 2 'options' before using the present 'preparation' . . .
the West Marine 'house brand' ablative {CPP Plus . . a 'Doppleganger' to
Interlux Micron CSC}. To quote - '. . . provides a smooth, self-polishing
finish with no paint build up. The more coats you apply, the longer it
lasts.' And '. . . For CPP & PCA the launch widow is INDEFINITE {my caps}.
Paint in good condition will reactivate upon launch'.

By it's very nature an 'ablative' is NOT a 'leaching' finish - it's a
'self-polishing' which means it wears away {'carrier' and 'biocide'}as it is
'used'. It is not as 'exotic' as the 'Modern Stuff' {unless you count West's
PCA or Interlux's Micron Extra - both have Irgarol for slime 'prevention'}
and doesn't have a high biocide load - with it's 'mechanics' it doesn't need
it.

For ablatives, THREE coats is the recommended initial application - again
from the 'more is better' school. Personally, I use this to my advantage . .
.. and maybe that is why 'they' recommended it . . . without the original
reasoning. The first coat is your 'flag' coat. It is a DIFFERENT color from
the subsequent coats {In my case I use RED and over-coat with BLUE}. I also
give a bit more paint to specific 'wear areas' - chines, keel, cu****er.
When the boat is hauled out, and bottom washed before winter storage, a
quick look is all that is needed to check the paint condition. The 'FLAG
COLOR' will show where the anti-fouling has almost worn away and needs
'refreshing'.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


"Skip Gundlach" wrote
SNIP
2-year refit. It was newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

How say you who have experienced this? Not hard, ablative, out of the
water for a couple of years essentially immediately after application?

SNIP

See interspersed comments, please:


"Ron Magen" wrote in message
news:%n0Dg.1651$MW.552@trnddc04...
Skip,

Simplest . . . if you still have the can . . . read the label. If not
contact the mfg. {the Internet is wonderful . . . sometimes}. Ask about
the
SPECIFIC product, not just 'your ablative paints'.

I've been through 2 'options' before using the present 'preparation' . . .
the West Marine 'house brand' ablative {CPP Plus . . a 'Doppleganger' to
Interlux Micron CSC}. To quote - '. . . provides a smooth, self-polishing
finish with no paint build up. The more coats you apply, the longer it
lasts.' And '. . . For CPP & PCA the launch widow is INDEFINITE {my caps}.
Paint in good condition will reactivate upon launch'.

Ron,

I have been given some unopened cans of CPP Plus and......

How long can W.Marine CPP Plus be 'stored' unused in an unopened can ?

Can it be tinted after purchase, e.g. if you bought royal blue could you
later change it to navy blue ? How ?

If one wants to barrier coat the hull, can this be done and then use the CPP
Plus, or what ?

Does your flag coat comment mean that..... different colors must be bought,
e.g. red and blue, or is some
merely tinted after purchase and just before applying ?

Thank you for your time,

Courtney

The first coat is your 'flag' coat. It is a DIFFERENT color from
the subsequent coats {In my case I use RED and over-coat with BLUE}. I
also
give a bit more paint to specific 'wear areas' - chines, keel, cu****er.
When the boat is hauled out, and bottom washed before winter storage, a
quick look is all that is needed to check the paint condition. The 'FLAG
COLOR' will show where the anti-fouling has almost worn away and needs
'refreshing'.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop


"Skip Gundlach" wrote
SNIP
2-year refit. It was newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

How say you who have experienced this? Not hard, ablative, out of the
water for a couple of years essentially immediately after application?

SNIP

In article .com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

As many of you know, we're close to splashing our 2-year refit. It was
newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

Ablative paint doesn't "die".

BUT, since you have the boat out of the water, why not splash on a
couple more coats? the boat's already dry.... Make it a different color
if you don't have a "reveal" coat under what's there now. Put extra
coats at the waterline, leading edges, and the whole rudder.

After a single good coat, we went two seasons with only touch-ups where
the under-color was showing. Would have gone a third year, except that a
sale was going on and a gallon was only slightly more than a quart.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Hi, Jere, and group,

Jere Lull wrote:
In article .com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

As many of you know, we're close to splashing our 2-year refit. It was
newly ablative bottom painted when we bought it.

A local asserts that the bottom paint is dead, and it will have to be
redone.

Ablative paint doesn't "die".

That's what I thought. My presumption had been that one scuffed it up
to get off the sloughed stuff and reactivate the stuff, as well as
provide a tooth for the new stuff to adhere to. You wouldn't believe
the amount of contradicting assertions we've gotten in the last few
days. That's because...


BUT, since you have the boat out of the water, why not splash on a
couple more coats? the boat's already dry.... Make it a different color
if you don't have a "reveal" coat under what's there now. Put extra
coats at the waterline, leading edges, and the whole rudder.


The plot thickens (like epoxy in hot weather)...

Our boat is covered in poorly repaired blisters. I'll try to keep it
to the short story that it was sold to us as blister-free, but on
survey (2.3 years ago, during the purchase) it was obvious that there
were many blisters. Our current gallery of August06 in the repair and
refit sectoin of our main gallery has the blister pix, if you have a
curiosity of that.

These blisters are largely dry - only a few smelled when chipped off -
so they aren't really an issue. However, lots of grinding has taken
place already, and we're going back with epoxy over all the grinds, and
fiberglass where deep enough. We've had directly contradicting
assertions from supposedly knowledgeable people as to whether that's
the right stuf to use, but that's what we're going to do absent some
authoritatively documented reason why not is presented.

Some time in the past, this boat was peeled and presumed epoxy barrier
coated. The grinds above have confirmed the barrier coat, but prior
repairs of blisters were done solely for cosmetic purposes - many of
the ground areas show prior blue marker lines - just like all the rest
of the 3+ weeks it was in the yard prior to sale: all cosmetic, no
substance....

So, we'll patch it all up, addressing only the worst of the blisters,
putting more of the same color paint on the repairs, give a scuff sand
to the entirety, and paint the snot out of it in a different color.

In our grinds, it was apparent that there was an underlying red paint
over the epoxy layer, and then the blue we are wearing and grinding
now. We'll probably go back with another red, unless we can find
something else interesting for contrast color.

The names are now also on the bow, along with the mini logos, plus the
larger logos on the stern, and the hailing port on the transom. The
Flying Pig is aloft and gaining altitude :{))

FWIW, we've started a yahoogroup for our loglist, some of you having
previously requested being notified of such. You can find it at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog/, and join there, drop me
a line for an invitation, or just click the link below to send a
message to the group. It's currently open - that is, anyone may join.
It's also unmoderated, meaning anyone can post. However, it's not
intended as a discussion list, so that may change if traffic goes
aground too often :{))

L8R

Skip, back to hard piping the stern head, and Lydia, back to epoxying
ground blisters

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
See our galleries at http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery/
Follow us at


"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear
night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you
are
quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the
general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the
surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as
self-sufficient
as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought,
and one
that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be
greatly
appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin

In article .com,
"Skip Gundlach" wrote:

The plot thickens (like epoxy in hot weather)...

Our boat is covered in poorly repaired blisters.

Dang! It's always something, isn't it?

I'd review http://yachtsurvey.com/blisters.htm (again) before you
continue. Our 35 year-old non-epoxy is still fine, and epoxy has serious
drawbacks.

Because you already have a reveal coat, I'd stick with the current
color. No need to get confused whether a patch is the first or second
red layer.

And don't scuff for adhesion -- since there's not much to be had, it IS
intended to be ablative and the fresh coat will chemically etch and bond
-- but only slightly for roughness. No need to remove stuff that's still
good.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/