Peggie Hall wrote:
Most clear hoses are not rated for below-waterline connections...so be
careful where you use non-"marine grade" hoses.

Hi Peggy:

You raised a question I have been think about lately. When people say
for "below the water line" applications, just what does that mean? 100%
immersion 100% of the time such as hose connected to an under the water
through hull or a low spot in a hose run that allows pooled liquid.
Does that also apply to a bilge intake and discharge hose which are
only seldom and intermittently immersed yet live "below the
waterline" in a normally dry area?

I realize that installations vary and some bilges are a rather
disgusting wet place but on the other hand, there are the painted white
guys who dust their bilge out every few months. In my case, the bilge
hose I use is that " PVC suction hose" I mentioned. It is reinforced
with a PVC coil, smooth inside, with wall thickness about 1/4." Very
smooth and extraordinarily stout.

But on my boat, the bilge discharge side carries water for only a few
seconds a few times each day depending on what's happening. If at the
dock, months go by without the bilge tripping on. The suction side may
be moist but not immerged for more than a few minutes.

What concerns should I have regarding pvc used in a relatively dry
place under the water line? Come to think about it I think I sit
"below the water line" most of the time. The big problem I have is
adding more combustible stuff to the boat. But hey, the boat is nothing
but plastic and wood anyway. Poof!

Bob

Skip G.

I'll check on manufacturing and part number RE the pvc suction hose and
will post here in a few days. However, I hope Peggy H. responds to my
"below the waterline" question and her concerns about pvc. I hope I do
not have to rip out my new bilge system.
Bob

Below is company info I copied. It looks like the stuff I use. I
googled a search and I found several companies that manufacture or
distribute a similar product. Its your basic clear pvc hose with
integrated helix coil.

http://www.ajayindcorp.com/products_Suction.htm
http://www.hosexpress.com/pvchose/seriesfg.htm
http://www.hosexpress.com/pvchose/serieshjk.htm

APPLICATIONS
Marine: Resistance to Sun, weather and salt water helps it withstand
severe marine service. Ease of handling and lightweight are important
features during foul weather.

Properties:
-It is light in weight, easy to handle and yet strong
-Does not corrode or rust
-Simpler installation and lesser fittings
-Superior weathering
-Bright and attractive
-Economical - inexpensive initial cost and maintenance
-Non flammable
-Transparent: possible to observe inside conditions
-Affluent in flexibility: usable anywhere
-Superior to chemical resistance, ideal for conveyance
-Excellent in pressure and abrasion resistance, ideal for conveyance of
powder as well as fluids
-Easily Cut-able into any desired lengths

Sounds as though it would work in the bilge.
Bob

Bob wrote:

You raised a question I have been think about lately. When people say
for "below the water line" applications, just what does that mean?

If the thru-hull is below waterline at least 50% of the time--especially
while the boat is at rest (wave, wake, tide), it would be wise to
consider it to be a below-waterline thru-hull. If it's only submerged
when the boat is heeled--which would also imply "only when you're
aboard," it's not.

That said, I would not connect ANY clear hose to any thru-hull. 'Cuz
IMO, whether it's hoses or anything else, you can never regret erring on
the side of caution. And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper. And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/books...ku=90&cat=1304

Peggie Hall wrote:

That said, I would not connect ANY clear hose to any thru-hull. 'Cuz
IMO, whether it's hoses or anything else, you can never regret erring on
the side of caution. And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper. And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.
Hi Peggy:

Thank you for the fast reply.

So If I under stand correctly, "below the water line" indicates
100% emersion 100% of the time? What about a bilge system that
discharges through an above the water line (6") through hull? Never
wet until the pump starts and then its empty? Would that situation be
considered "below the waterline?"

On a slightly different thought, one thing that I do hold strongly, or
was that strongly hold, is that the maritime industry is permeated with
tradition. In fact, "tradition" is a selling attribute for many
companies. Do not want to try anything that is not test by time, ya
sure, ya betcha. The problem with that is who is going to take a chance
and test it first? And as far as boat builder are concerned, I agree
they are there to make a profit. COuld be that the pvc hose just takes
alttle mroe time to install because it is more robust that the the
stuff installed at the factory. I know the white 3/4" hose on my new PH
2 could not take the slight bend to the bowl. The hose was colapsed at
the radious and restrist the flow. I "up graded" that factory OEM
asap!.

I looked over the specs for the pvc. No corrugation. Its very smooth
inside. Temp, PSI, flamibility, 1/4" wall, it all looks good. I was
reviewing the different industries that use it in some very horindous
applications. Looks tough! I just belive that looking outside the
marine industry is a reasonable thing to do IF the product is designed
for similar applications but not called "marine."

Silaprene adhesive/sealant is an excellent example. Used in the
trucking industry for decades to "glue" 40' trailers together
only recently "discovered" by sailors to bed through-the-deck chain
plates.

So your apprehension to use the pvc hose for a bilge system is based on
what engineering specification?
Bob

Yes, there are many traditions around boats and the sea. The one I'm most
fond of is that boats float. Accordingly, while I do experiment elswhere in
boat construction, I will leave to others experiments with the materials and
components that keep the ocean out.

"Bob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Peggie Hall wrote:

That said, I would not connect ANY clear hose to any thru-hull. 'Cuz
IMO, whether it's hoses or anything else, you can never regret erring on
the side of caution. And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper. And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.
Hi Peggy:

Thank you for the fast reply.

So If I under stand correctly, "below the water line" indicates
100% emersion 100% of the time? What about a bilge system that
discharges through an above the water line (6") through hull? Never
wet until the pump starts and then its empty? Would that situation be
considered "below the waterline?"

On a slightly different thought, one thing that I do hold strongly, or
was that strongly hold, is that the maritime industry is permeated with
tradition. In fact, "tradition" is a selling attribute for many
companies. Do not want to try anything that is not test by time, ya
sure, ya betcha. The problem with that is who is going to take a chance
and test it first? And as far as boat builder are concerned, I agree
they are there to make a profit. COuld be that the pvc hose just takes
alttle mroe time to install because it is more robust that the the
stuff installed at the factory. I know the white 3/4" hose on my new PH
2 could not take the slight bend to the bowl. The hose was colapsed at
the radious and restrist the flow. I "up graded" that factory OEM
asap!.

I looked over the specs for the pvc. No corrugation. Its very smooth
inside. Temp, PSI, flamibility, 1/4" wall, it all looks good. I was
reviewing the different industries that use it in some very horindous
applications. Looks tough! I just belive that looking outside the
marine industry is a reasonable thing to do IF the product is designed
for similar applications but not called "marine."

Silaprene adhesive/sealant is an excellent example. Used in the
trucking industry for decades to "glue" 40' trailers together
only recently "discovered" by sailors to bed through-the-deck chain
plates.

So your apprehension to use the pvc hose for a bilge system is based on
what engineering specification?
Bob

On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 02:44:20 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper.

What 's special about marine-grade bilge pump hose?

And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

Why not? It's pretty crush proof and kink proof. The stuff I'm
familiar with has a fairly smooth bore.

One drawback is that it's supposed to be terminated with wire hose
clamps which may be difficult to get in stainless.

For through hulls I'd look at using some *high* quality hose from the
through hull up to where the 'goose neck' loop would be, and then use
black corrugated hose after that.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.

Anyone had a bilge hose or non-engine hose failure? What sort of hose
was involved?

(x-posted to rec.boats.cruising and uk.rec.boats.power)

cheers,
Pete.

I've had a sink drain hose fail without warning. It was a cheap currugated
hose. A fair bit of Atlantic came in before we figured out what had
happened. A bad day that I don't ever want to repeat.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 02:44:20 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

And fwiw, I've NEVER seen any clear bilge discharge
hose. Boat builders are very cost conscious...if there weren't a good
reason to stick with marine-grade bilge pump hose, they'd use something
else that's cheaper.

What 's special about marine-grade bilge pump hose?

And also fwiw, I wouldn't use corrugated hose for
anything on a boat, anywhere.

Why not? It's pretty crush proof and kink proof. The stuff I'm
familiar with has a fairly smooth bore.

One drawback is that it's supposed to be terminated with wire hose
clamps which may be difficult to get in stainless.

For through hulls I'd look at using some *high* quality hose from the
through hull up to where the 'goose neck' loop would be, and then use
black corrugated hose after that.

But that's what I'd do. It's your boat...your choice.

Anyone had a bilge hose or non-engine hose failure? What sort of hose
was involved?

(x-posted to rec.boats.cruising and uk.rec.boats.power)

cheers,
Pete.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:01:07 -0500, "Jim Conlin"
wrote:

I've had a sink drain hose fail without warning. It was a cheap currugated
hose. A fair bit of Atlantic came in before we figured out what had
happened. A bad day that I don't ever want to repeat.

I see. Did it split on a bend, at the clamp, or just in a straight
run? Was it this sort of hose? :

http://www.pacificecho.com/120.htm

cheers,
Pete.

The hose was pretty similar to that stuff. Some hot water was put down a
galley sink drain and water started coming out of the cabinet under the
sink. It took a while to realize that it was seawater and that therefore
there was a lot more available than the gallon that had gone down the drain.
As I said, a bad day. I got religion.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 17:01:07 -0500, "Jim Conlin"
wrote:

I've had a sink drain hose fail without warning. It was a cheap
currugated
hose. A fair bit of Atlantic came in before we figured out what had
happened. A bad day that I don't ever want to repeat.

I see. Did it split on a bend, at the clamp, or just in a straight
run? Was it this sort of hose? :

http://www.pacificecho.com/120.htm

cheers,
Pete.