Mantra The epoxy encapsulation must be done right, and then maintained
that way/Mantra. I would wonder if those canoes that had problems (please
describe them for us) were probably beached enough to cause miniscule leaks
in the canoes. Due to the rough rocks around here, mostly lava sponge, I
don't think I'll ever get to build a stripper than I can utilize much ...the
best lakes we have are in lava country (high Cascades, in Oregon).

As far as the one-side epoxy experience goes, it makes me wonder if some
woods do conduct moisture away from the epoxy/wood interface while other
woods do not, e.g. some woods are less rot resistant when only partially
coated with epoxy. Someone should do a study. It's very interesting
though. The encapsulated canoes were probably trapping water in the wood
while the one-side ones were allowing it to be conducted out? Have you any
comments or guesses on this?

Brian

--
My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass


"Bray Haven" wrote in message
...
I looked at a couple mahog. runabouts last year that had been
"fiberglassed" at
the factory in the 50's and were still in great shape. I epoxy glass my
cedar
strip hulls on the outside only. I have had problems with so called
"encapsualtion" but none at all with the outside application.
Greg Sefton

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 01:51:11 GMT, "Brian D"
wrote:
//// As far as toxic substances go,
maybe that fellow who made the remark should read a few MSDS's. I have a
feeling he's going on rumor more than fact on that one.

Brian

Sadly, many people have developed extreme sensitivity to epoxy resins
after less than proplonged exposure while building projects.
They have to swear off the stuff, thereafter,

Brian W

Wow -

There is a lot going on here.

If you read all the MSDS (I have had to do so), Epoxy is less toxic
than polyester, and as it does not outgas in curing (notice - no new
epoxy smell?). The exposure sensitivity can and does happen with almost
anything.

I have seem a number of hulls that were glassed after some service time.
bond failures are common.

If you use a thin polyester resin on new-clean wood, you have a chance.
The builders that went that way also did not caulk the seams. I know
of few that a few working boats and a couple of Tahoe Chriscraft that
are still in great shape. But, there is a secondary problem with
replacing a broken strake or frame.

When you consider that the life of a typical wood hull was twenty years,
you begin to realize that a lot has change in th life of people in my world.

Matt Colie - Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Pathological Sailor
www.southpointechandler.com



Brian Whatcott wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 01:51:11 GMT, "Brian D"
wrote:

//// As far as toxic substances go,
maybe that fellow who made the remark should read a few MSDS's. I have a
feeling he's going on rumor more than fact on that one.

Brian


Sadly, many people have developed extreme sensitivity to epoxy resins
after less than proplonged exposure while building projects.
They have to swear off the stuff, thereafter,

Brian W

Another thought is that you did not say how the boat was planked.
"custom-built wood runabout" could mean a variety of things.
Is the boat of lapstrake construction? If it is and the wood is is good
shape, why fiberglass? Covering the lap ridges with glass would be
difficult.

I have seen some old mahogany runabouts that had a double layer of thin
planking with canvas in between.
The canvas rots and the boat leaks. Probably better to fiberglass
over the outer hull in this case.

Some are batten seam construction. The planks do not shrink apart very
much with this type and if in good shape....why fiberglass?

If you have a regular carvel planked hull, with caulked seams, then
you will periodically need to recaulk but you won't have to do this
every year. A coat of maintenance varnish every year and some bottom
paint touch up might go a long way.
I think some people who have boats like this tend to trailer them
and not use them very much and then wonder why they leak when they put
them in the water. This type of boat benefits from being kept in the
water and not being allowed to really dry out when hauled in the winter.

One final thought. Once you commit to fiberglassing the boat, whether
you use epoxy or polyester, you make it much more difficult to replace
a plank that becomes damaged or rotten. The nice thing about a carvel
planked boat is you can take it apart (in theory) and replace damaged
pieces and keep the boat going a long long time.

If your primary concern is ease of maintenance, buy a plastic boat.
But then that wouldn't be any fun at all, would it?


WCD wrote:
I'm considering buying a 19' 50's era custom-built wood runabout. I'm
also considering putting fiberglass onto the hull to get it into the
water sooner and to keep the maintenance down.

Any suggestions? The boat has been out of the water for a few years, so
the wood is pretty dry. The hull is in pretty good shape, so I'm not
covering up a pack of problems. I'm thinking of doing the work myself;
it looks like something I could handle and I have the space in my shop.

Thanks for any advice.

Steve,

What's "batten seam" construction?

Thanks,
Brian

--
My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass

"steveJ" wrote in message
...
Another thought is that you did not say how the boat was planked.
"custom-built wood runabout" could mean a variety of things.
Is the boat of lapstrake construction? If it is and the wood is is good
shape, why fiberglass? Covering the lap ridges with glass would be
difficult.

I have seen some old mahogany runabouts that had a double layer of thin
planking with canvas in between.
The canvas rots and the boat leaks. Probably better to fiberglass
over the outer hull in this case.

Some are batten seam construction. The planks do not shrink apart very
much with this type and if in good shape....why fiberglass?

If you have a regular carvel planked hull, with caulked seams, then
you will periodically need to recaulk but you won't have to do this
every year. A coat of maintenance varnish every year and some bottom
paint touch up might go a long way.
I think some people who have boats like this tend to trailer them
and not use them very much and then wonder why they leak when they put
them in the water. This type of boat benefits from being kept in the
water and not being allowed to really dry out when hauled in the winter.

One final thought. Once you commit to fiberglassing the boat, whether
you use epoxy or polyester, you make it much more difficult to replace
a plank that becomes damaged or rotten. The nice thing about a carvel
planked boat is you can take it apart (in theory) and replace damaged
pieces and keep the boat going a long long time.

If your primary concern is ease of maintenance, buy a plastic boat.
But then that wouldn't be any fun at all, would it?


WCD wrote:
I'm considering buying a 19' 50's era custom-built wood runabout. I'm
also considering putting fiberglass onto the hull to get it into the
water sooner and to keep the maintenance down.

Any suggestions? The boat has been out of the water for a few years, so
the wood is pretty dry. The hull is in pretty good shape, so I'm not
covering up a pack of problems. I'm thinking of doing the work myself;
it looks like something I could handle and I have the space in my shop.

Thanks for any advice.

In article InWJb.745409$Fm2.673024@attbi_s04, Brian D
wrote:

Steve,

What's "batten seam" construction?

I'm not Steve but batten construction uses a narrow piece of wood on
the inside to cover the seam between planks. The plank is fastened to
the batten.

Jeff

Gotcha.

Brian

"Le Grande Raoul" wrote in message
...
In article InWJb.745409$Fm2.673024@attbi_s04, Brian D
wrote:

Steve,

What's "batten seam" construction?

I'm not Steve but batten construction uses a narrow piece of wood on
the inside to cover the seam between planks. The plank is fastened to
the batten.

Jeff

Yup...that's it.

Le Grande Raoul wrote:
In article InWJb.745409$Fm2.673024@attbi_s04, Brian D
wrote:


Steve,

What's "batten seam" construction?


I'm not Steve but batten construction uses a narrow piece of wood on
the inside to cover the seam between planks. The plank is fastened to
the batten.

Jeff

matt colie wrote in message ...
Wow -

There is a lot going on here.

If you read all the MSDS (I have had to do so), Epoxy is less toxic
than polyester, and as it does not outgas in curing (notice - no new
epoxy smell?). The exposure sensitivity can and does happen with almost
anything.

When I was 20 I began rebuilding an airplane using epoxy glues.
After a year of part-time work on the project, and getting the stuff
on my skin, I had to abandon the epoxy and go to urea-formaldehyde. My
eyelids would swell up just in the presence of epoxy curing, and my
immune system got all screwed up and I became allergic to a range of
things like milk, many pollens and dust. 30 years later I still suffer
the effects and have to be really careful around any epoxies.
On the other hand, I have worked extensively with polyester
resins and had no trouble at all.
On the subject of polyester vs. epoxy, I have found that
polyester won't cure if applied over an old epoxied surface. Stays
gummy. Had to scrape it off and remove all the old epoxy, then
re-glass it.

Dan

steveJ wrote:

I visited a boat shop on Grand Manan Island in the Bay of Fundy
two years ago and my observations would lead me to believe that
what you say about polyester not sticking to wood is incorrect.....

-------

Your point about the wood being dry when covered with polyester resin is a good
point. It may explain his good results. Mostly people glass over their wood
hulls because of hints of rot etc. - ie. moisture damage - so for most of us,
the 'dry hull' is probably out of reach at the time of glassing.

I am in the marine epoxy business. I have personal experience with fiberglass
resin pulling off a wooden hull and get calls about that several times a year.
The polyester bond to wood seems to last 8 - 12 years and then starts to
disbond...

hope this helps a little bit.....

paul oman
www.epoxyproducts.com