Somebody wrote:

It would cost you less, and be far less work, to buy a better boat.

Michiel wrote:

Do you really think so? Do you have rough estimates or "guesstimates"
and a suggestion for a different boat?

I'll try to put this into perspective for you.

I buy materials at prices you would dream about getting.

That is because I buy large quantities of epoxy, deck foam, knitted
glass and fairing compound.

My guess is that it will cost me at least $2,000 for materials and at
least a year's time.

You will pay more.

Add in money for tools and supplies.

I'd budget at least $200 for just abrasives and another $200 for sanding
equipment, if you don't already have them.

You'll spend another $500 for misc tools and supplies.

DAMHIKT

Does this give you enough incentive to recognize that attempting to
rehab a 20 ft, 20+ year old fiberglass boat is economically an unsound path.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
My guess is that it will cost me at least $2,000 for materials and at
least a year's time.


My guess is that either you work very inefficiently, or else
you're sniffing too much resin.

For $2K and a couple months labor, one could completely
remove the deck, use it as tooling, mold a complete new one,
and install it.

You got this right: sanding materials & tools will both cost
a lot.

DSK

DSK wrote:

My guess is that either you work very inefficiently, or else you're
sniffing too much resin.

You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.

Lew

Lew Hodgett wrote:
You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.


Actually, I have- am buying materials for a carbon fiber
rowing dinghy. But I think you grossly (very grossly)
overestimated the cost & amount of materials needed for
replacing core on a 20' deck.

It's not going to be free, that's not what I'm saying.

DSK

I figure it'd be somewhat over $10/ft^2.
Core-cell $4-
maybe 4 laminations of:
12 oz. knitted Glass $10/yd = $.80/ft^2/ply
epoxy $70/gal = $.60/ft^2/ply

paint $1/ft^2
plus abrasives, peel ply, fillers, vacuum bag consumables


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Lew Hodgett wrote:
You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.


Actually, I have- am buying materials for a carbon fiber
rowing dinghy. But I think you grossly (very grossly)
overestimated the cost & amount of materials needed for
replacing core on a 20' deck.

It's not going to be free, that's not what I'm saying.

DSK

Just wondering do you guys that use epoxy for everything also use titanium
for auto body repairs after all it's better than steel. It seems rather
silly to repair a polyester and glass boat which is old with epoxy and the
latest high tech fabrics. Why not try resin infusion too
John
"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
I figure it'd be somewhat over $10/ft^2.
Core-cell $4-
maybe 4 laminations of:
12 oz. knitted Glass $10/yd = $.80/ft^2/ply
epoxy $70/gal = $.60/ft^2/ply

paint $1/ft^2
plus abrasives, peel ply, fillers, vacuum bag consumables


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Lew Hodgett wrote:
You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.


Actually, I have- am buying materials for a carbon fiber
rowing dinghy. But I think you grossly (very grossly)
overestimated the cost & amount of materials needed for
replacing core on a 20' deck.

It's not going to be free, that's not what I'm saying.

DSK

"Jim Conlin" wrote ...
I figure it'd be somewhat over $10/ft^2.
Core-cell $4-
maybe 4 laminations of:
12 oz. knitted Glass $10/yd = $.80/ft^2/ply
epoxy $70/gal = $.60/ft^2/ply

paint $1/ft^2
plus abrasives, peel ply, fillers, vacuum bag consumables

Vacuum bagging it would be the way to go for bond strength,
but knitted glass? I didn't think that was all that cost
effective?

One thing I would like to mention is that hardware store
F'glass cloth is NOT worth it. It's actually a bit more
expensive than most mail order, plus it's crappy quality.

John M wrote:
Just wondering do you guys that use epoxy for everything also use titanium
for auto body repairs after all it's better than steel. It seems rather
silly to repair a polyester and glass boat which is old with epoxy and the
latest high tech fabrics. Why not try resin infusion too


Actually, it's not silly at all. Secondary bonding with
polyester is rather iffy... nowhere near as strong and
what's more important, less reliable (more prone to voids,
imperfectly mixed resin, more temp sensitive, etc etc) so
it's less likely to achieve it's best strength. Epoxy is not
that much more expensive (considering the expense entailed
by owning the rest of the boat too) and that little extra is
very well worth it IMHO.

The last boat I did extensive rebuild work on was an old
Lightning... considering that I bought new trailer tires &
bearings (or would you advocate buying cheaper used ones?),
new running rigging, new sails, and fairly nice paint (now
this could have been economised on, but would it have looked
as good), the 2 gallons of epoxy that I used to do
structural work was trivial... and I sailed that boat in 20+
knot winds many times, never broke anything that I'd worked
on with epoxy. The first few times I was nervous, but after
that became very confident in the strength of my work. BTW
this included relamating some patches of deck as well as
installing a new mainsheet bridle & traveller, which comes
under quite heavy strain.

OTOH I have seen other boats suffer structural failure in
strong winds... it doesn't look like much fun, but perhaps
the skippers are telling themselves they're glad they didn't
spend the money as they take the pieces home.

DSK

John,

Do you do body repairs with window screen and plastic filler?
You can make it look just as good as steel?

If you would go to sea in a boat patched with polyester, be my guest.
One of the famous ones in the book is "Tomahawk". She sank during a
Bayview Mackinac in the mid 80's. That was a polyester patch job.

A clients mast came down when it buckled at the spreaders because the
tabbing for the anchor for the lower came away from the hull side.

I helped recover a sloop that lost its steering because one of the
turning blocks came adrift.

Those last two were both bond failures of parts installed at teh
builders yard.

We are set up for resin infusion in several versions (skrimp, spike and
texp2) but none are well suited to most non-molded assemblies (that most
repairs).

Epoxy is used in repairs for two reasons, it has cohesive and adhesive
bond properties that far exceed that of poly or vinylesters. We
specialize in fixing things - once. Our clients only talk to us if they
want a first class job. We clould save the client 1or 200$ on a 5k$ job
by using cheap materials. We use only epoxy.

You can do what you want, but some of are not interested in doing it ont
he cheap - cheap is the price of low value.

Matt Colie

John M wrote:
Just wondering do you guys that use epoxy for everything also use titanium
for auto body repairs after all it's better than steel. It seems rather
silly to repair a polyester and glass boat which is old with epoxy and the
latest high tech fabrics. Why not try resin infusion too
John
"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...

I figure it'd be somewhat over $10/ft^2.
Core-cell $4-
maybe 4 laminations of:
12 oz. knitted Glass $10/yd = $.80/ft^2/ply
epoxy $70/gal = $.60/ft^2/ply

paint $1/ft^2
plus abrasives, peel ply, fillers, vacuum bag consumables


"DSK" wrote in message
...

Lew Hodgett wrote:

You haven't priced materials lately, have you?

Think OIL.


Actually, I have- am buying materials for a carbon fiber
rowing dinghy. But I think you grossly (very grossly)
overestimated the cost & amount of materials needed for
replacing core on a 20' deck.

It's not going to be free, that's not what I'm saying.

DSK

Lew Hodgett wrote:


Somebody wrote:

It would cost you less, and be far less work, to buy a better boat.


Michiel wrote:

Do you really think so? Do you have rough estimates or "guesstimates"
and a suggestion for a different boat?


I'll try to put this into perspective for you.

I buy materials at prices you would dream about getting.

That is because I buy large quantities of epoxy, deck foam, knitted
glass and fairing compound.

My guess is that it will cost me at least $2,000 for materials and at
least a year's time.

You will pay more.

Add in money for tools and supplies.

I'd budget at least $200 for just abrasives and another $200 for sanding
equipment, if you don't already have them.

You'll spend another $500 for misc tools and supplies.

DAMHIKT

Does this give you enough incentive to recognize that attempting to
rehab a 20 ft, 20+ year old fiberglass boat is economically an unsound
path.

Lew

It depends entirely on how you value the labour required. My labour
is free for me, but for this job, I wouldn't work for less than 15
bucks / hour.

I would pay 10 bucks an hour to mess about on a boat, if it was mine
and the value of the labour remains in the boat.

The rest is arithmatic.

Terry K