Let me clear the air.

What I ment was that I thought Garden's comment was a bit mean-spirited.

However I don't know what the situation was when it was made. Most
professionals, while sharing a mutual respect, will often issue a good
natured 'jab' at another..

Even in these forums, we find good natured ribbing along with down right
mean spirited slander. Some deserved and some to flame.

Bottom line, I usually find something worth while in boat designs regardless
of whose work it is.. (then again, I sometimes just shake my head at a few.)

I will admit that Benfords Small Ships book is more for dreaming than for
practical DIY building. The chapter covering the STUMPET that Benford
designed for Ernest Gann was of special interest to me when I was looking
for a boat well suited to cruising the waters of the Pac.NW. I saw this
boat, in the Friday Harbor but Mr. Gann wasn't around to offer a tour ;o(

Just my thoughts, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:33:31 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
wrote:

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

Moderator? This is an unmoderated group on USENET.

It's sort of like real life.

I would be satisfied if "PC" would just learn to use a spellcheck. The
way things are he sounds like a written version of that "Swedish Chef"
comedy routine on TV ages ago.

Mind you, I can't speak any language as well as he handles English.
However, it would certainly lend credibility if he could just take the
care to proof his posts.

"James W. Sloan" wrote:

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan

there is no moderator.


--


Life lesson #48:

You can continue to puke long after you think you should be done......

P.C. Ford lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:

He was a promoter of ferrocement in the 70's.

What is wrong with correctly laid and built ferrocement hulls.

btw, his website actually states that he can no longer reccomend them. My
understanding is that the problem is the build quality, not the material.

steveb

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:31:04 +0100, steveb wrote:

P.C. Ford lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:

He was a promoter of ferrocement in the 70's.

What is wrong with correctly laid and built ferrocement hulls.

I am sure there are proper uses; the technique has been used to
created barges in the past.

There was a craze for ferrocement in the 70s. (A decade that also
favored disco, polyester clothing and bad hairdos.) Rationality
returned when it was discovered that they were not as cheap as touted,
difficult to fair, have dubious longevity and are next to impossible
to insure.

P.C. Ford lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:

Rationality
returned when it was discovered that they were not as cheap as touted,
difficult to fair, have dubious longevity and are next to impossible
to insure.

Hmmm, the way I hear it is slightly different. They are cheap to build, but
ppl forgot that the cost of the hull is probably a third or less of the
total, and so many builds were skimped.

Also, the actual skill of many amateurs probably left a great deal to be
desired. But it isn't true that the good ones can't be insured, and they
certainly can be surveyed.

Remember you will get an awful lot of very strong boat on the cheap (if you
buy a good one) just don't expect to make money on resale. And also
remember that ferro-cememnt isn't new. It was first used, I believe, in the
mid 19th century

steveb

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:33:31 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

I think you may have PC (Per Corell?, who AFAIK has _not_ posted to
this thread) of the 3d boats, confused with PC Ford, (who _has_ posted
in this thread).

Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan


************************************************** ****************************************
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
The rest sit around and make snide comments.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

Hi

"James W. Sloan" skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...
Group,

Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.

Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.

Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?

James Sloan

It work like this, that if there is a particular person you will not read, you
open your kill-filter and add the persons name, then you will not be bothered.
Now "P.C." if that is me you mean, is the founder of Cyber-Boat, that you can
find in Yahoo group and an old site on the web. The difference betewwn me and
most of this group is, that I am a boatbuilder, working from tradisional methods
and tradisional materials such as wood, and have proven that I acturly build
nice tradisional boats ,mainly in the old fasion art of lapstrake or clinker
boatbuilding;
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/
Round one mill hits found that site but don't trust the counters number.

I develobed this into computer programs before most other group members even got
their first computer, and acturly you will find most of the group is members of
one or several Cyber-Boat groups at Yahoo.
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

Round 1000 members all together and a lot of lurkers here had the oppotunity to
download all the nice designs ,as full-scale plans of unfolded panels and
building jigs.

So the first difference is that I made "Real" boats, in the old tradision ----
you know boats out of wood. But oposed your manners, I never said that this
shuld be "better" or more fit for a boatbuilding group, as boatbuilding as a
craft shuld not belong in a museum.
Now you would think that this work both way's , but your mail just prove it
don't ; and where a lot of this group want to stay with one particular
construction method, even there are hundreds of way's to produce a boat, I work
from original tradision , master that and master the computer tools to the
extents that I need to make my own software, beside question the conservatism
that keep people making money .
Your way's isn't different from many other groups on usenet, you think this
shuld be a social game where you can shrow dirt and say the one you hit stink,
aslong as you gather another crowd , around your activity.
Well maby that will in the end , along the massive spam mails you recive from
usenet activity, be the end of usenet. ---- is usenet even worth the spam.
Now Scotty don't want to make money with a better, easyer, safer and more
amature friendly building method proving better, nicer and more modern designs
in any shape and fasion ,even modern . But that is his choice, your choice seem
to be to try make another usenetgroup into a social club so the true craftmen
that shuld profit, shuld have less value than any usenet troll being bored in
his prefered group, -------- well maby you will succes , as the ground already
is prepared and throwing dirt alway's for some, is more fun than building a
boat.
P.C.

Hi

"P.C." skrev i en meddelelse
k...
Hi

"James W. Sloan" skrev i en meddelelse
ink.net...
Group,

Sorry I forgot to leave the links for Cyber-Boat Yahoo groups, where you in the
Files section of each group can download a number of nice designs, there are
more groups than I list here, but a few work different than the standard Yahoo
group aproach and ask membership. Bad that Yahoo announced that you can not
have a public groupe as this one ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-...ngboat-5meter/

Then there is the original Yahoo Cyber-Boat group ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

And as an example I here show the address of a much smaller Cyber-Boat group ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/

And if you wanted a true clinkerbuild easy build Pram of 2.08 meter , this group
hold that beside a few more plans , --------- all full-scale and in DWG format ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/

Sorry to the group that I forgot these links, ------- but for each time I
progress these groups on usenet, there alway's show up some 8 - 20 new members ;
they to can walk in and have a look, but I can not build their boats for free.
Then please remember, that Cyber-Boat was the first one to even offer full-scale
plans of the actural planks ,beside Cyber-Boat alway's been about exiting new
technikes and beautifull designs , acturly the software still prove best in a
hands-on building process, beside the 3D-H building method you se promoted for
boatbuilding, is described by F.A.A. as "a very attractive building method for
small aeroplanes" , -------- now don't say Boatbuilding is a dying craft, unless
good skills is replaced by social skills even then why didn't we stay in the
caves ? Why did we replace that stone adge with one in steel ?

P.C.
http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=3d-honeycomb