what are the limits of plywood boats ?

I am interested in kind of ultralight (25000# to 32000# light) trawler in
the 42-50 feet range, of displacement type, not semi displacement. No intend
to exceed hull speed. So single engine could be in 100-120 hp range.

Plywood construction, easy to build. My father is a retired woodcrafter, and
I found at home an original copy of heavy weather sailing by Kadlard koles.
He has owned several sail boats, but never powerboat and never built one.

But, except Argosy , Klondyke from GlenL, I found nothing.

The study plan seems to show that they are not very up to date. When you
need three layers of plywood, one may be worried about real developpability
of plates. Also planned wood and size does not seem to be what is currently
done and cost efficiently available.

Thanks in advance.

wrote in message
...
http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html

Great link!!!! Thanks

"VG" wrote...
what are the limits of plywood boats ?

I am interested in kind of ultralight (25000# to 32000# light) trawler in
the 42-50 feet range, of displacement type, not semi displacement. No intend
to exceed hull speed. So single engine could be in 100-120 hp range.

Plywood construction, easy to build. My father is a retired woodcrafter, and
I found at home an original copy of heavy weather sailing by Kadlard koles.
He has owned several sail boats, but never powerboat and never built one.

Devlin Designing Boatbuilders in Olympia, WA builds stitch & glue plywood/epoxy
boats of all sizes -- power, sail, and oar. Plans are available for many
designs. See http://www.devlinboat.com/. In the size range you specify, he
has:

Czarinna 43 -- 19,400#
Oysta 42 -- 24,000#
Golly Wobbler 43 -- 21,000#
Sockeye 42 -- 30,000#, 45
Kokanee 43 -- 28,000#

Sam Devlin had a flotilla of his boats from 18 to 43' long (including a Golly
Wobbler 43) at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival last weekend. They were
all beautiful!

Hi

"VG" skrev i en meddelelse
...
what are the limits of plywood boats ?

I am interested in kind of ultralight (25000# to 32000# light) trawler in
the 42-50 feet range, of displacement type, not semi displacement. No intend
to exceed hull speed. So single engine could be in 100-120 hp range.

Go check the "Trawler" folder in this link ;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-...ngboat-5meter/

When you realise that this is just the building system that you need, as you
simply cut an assembly framework from simple sheet material, you can decide what
sheet material you want to use. You shuld also consider a type of boatplans ,
that offer full-scale plans as then you can simply spray glue the full-scale
drawings onto the sheets to form the frame assembly, and cut it from the lines
on the drawings directly, with a jigsaw.
Ask plans that offer the option of an easy scale model : Cyber-Boat do just
that.

Now there are a lot of amature builders in this fora, that will opose these
facts and ride their own Pony , ------- guess there are a real reson why true
new designs and refreshing new building methods is so rare ; there simply is a
crowd of usenet trolls that can't bear the idear that skilled craftmen build a
boat, in a different way than their father once did, and who instantly will pick
on any new idear challancing 70 year old plywood designs. As when it been
difficult for you to find what you been looking, there is a reson for that, and
if it was not for that reson, boatbuilders and designers could make their bread
for themself and their family . But still there are remains of great idears ,
different than the Pony's you se in this fora , you se boatplans is a buisness
even it is one stuck in conservatism and protectivism. There are Designs that is
not 80 year old and building methods that is easyer than fiddeling with 200 year
old concepts ; well you are sitting behind a computer screen, then why not open
your mind and realise that there acturly are methods, that will allow any
amature to get a beautifull sailboat or Trawler, at a third the cost, and four
times as strong , just by cutting along the lines of a full-scale drawing,
glued onto the plywood sheets.
Beside realising that a boat hull can be a beautifull thing, even Usenet Trolls
just hate the sight of any skilled "Hippie" who think this old craft shuld be
able to survive and be the platform for new exiting building technikes.
Then cover it with glasfiber if that is what you want to spend, if you get the
Trawler you dream .
Other Cyber-Boat free-download sites ;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat-boatplans/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CyberBoat/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cyber-boat-partners/

P.C.
P.s.
I already had enough discussing these matters in this fora, and any response
from the useal Troll crowd will not be responded. -------- Paper plans work and
boats can be nice and easily build, try it some day.

Is ultralight trawler not a contradiction?
The boats you list and that some propose are all heavy as a trawler shoudl
be.
How about a large dory? D. Gerr and G. Bhueler have designed some nice ones.
Reuel Parker too.
That would be much easier to build, less expensive, lighter. A 50' dory
would move nicely with a 100 HP engine.


--
Jacques
http://www.bateau.com



"VG" wrote in message
...
what are the limits of plywood boats ?

I am interested in kind of ultralight (25000# to 32000# light) trawler in
the 42-50 feet range, of displacement type, not semi displacement. No
intend
to exceed hull speed. So single engine could be in 100-120 hp range.

Plywood construction, easy to build. My father is a retired woodcrafter,
and
I found at home an original copy of heavy weather sailing by Kadlard
koles.
He has owned several sail boats, but never powerboat and never built one.

But, except Argosy , Klondyke from GlenL, I found nothing.

The study plan seems to show that they are not very up to date. When you
need three layers of plywood, one may be worried about real
developpability
of plates. Also planned wood and size does not seem to be what is
currently
done and cost efficiently available.

Thanks in advance.

By ultralight trawler, I wanted to mean light powerboat designed to be used
in displacement mode. speed 1.34 sqrt(lwl). planning speed or even semi
planning not intended.

A GB 49 is 60000#. a nordhavn 43 is 53000#.

The GB42 is 34000# , but with 2 * 430 hp, it is not intended to be used in
displacement mode. The minimum power available is still 2 * 210 hp.
The GlenL boats (argosy klondike) are in the same weight range. But they are
semi planning boats too. (cruising speed 12 kts).

So I would call a displacement mode boat 42 -48 # lenth weighting under
30000# boat as light.

Have seens the photos of the 48 duck built in wood from G Bhueler.
Its beyond my (and my father) possibilities. Financial, technical , time ...
It a boat in the 60 000 # range.

The pilgrim 44, 10 000 # on the other side, is rather simplistic and light
with its outboard engine. A scaled up canoe.

More interesting are kasten marine designs. But alas, the designer is
specialised in metal (steel ou alu).
A boat like the coast runner 48 ocean express 49 look more like what I want.
But they are both semi planning aluminum boats, and only at the preliminary
design stage today.


Also there are things I don't understand. M Kasten give 40 hp to reach 8 kts
on a 46.75 lwl, 32000# boat. G Bhueler claims 21 hp for 8.1 kts,with 46.3
lwl and 57000 # disp. Both single hard chine.

NB english is not my natural langage.
Thanks.



"Jacques Mertens" a écrit dans le message news:
...
Is ultralight trawler not a contradiction?
The boats you list and that some propose are all heavy as a trawler shoudl
be.
How about a large dory? D. Gerr and G. Bhueler have designed some nice
ones.
Reuel Parker too.
That would be much easier to build, less expensive, lighter. A 50' dory
would move nicely with a 100 HP engine.

Yes, those power dories are simplistic.

Check Ted Brewer:
http://www.tedbrewer.com/power.html
He has some light displacement hulls like the Quiet Times.
Good looking, good design for plywood planking.
His plans prices are very reasonable.
Contact us directly if you want to adapt that design to stitch and glue or
enlarge it.

BTW, check the Beebee book "PassageMaker". It explains what the prismatic
coefficient is and will answer your question about Buehler's calculations.

--
Jacques
http://www.bateau.com



"VG" wrote in message
...
By ultralight trawler, I wanted to mean light powerboat designed to be
used
in displacement mode. speed 1.34 sqrt(lwl). planning speed or even semi
planning not intended.

A GB 49 is 60000#. a nordhavn 43 is 53000#.

The GB42 is 34000# , but with 2 * 430 hp, it is not intended to be used in
displacement mode. The minimum power available is still 2 * 210 hp.
The GlenL boats (argosy klondike) are in the same weight range. But they
are
semi planning boats too. (cruising speed 12 kts).

So I would call a displacement mode boat 42 -48 # lenth weighting under
30000# boat as light.

Have seens the photos of the 48 duck built in wood from G Bhueler.
Its beyond my (and my father) possibilities. Financial, technical , time
....
It a boat in the 60 000 # range.

The pilgrim 44, 10 000 # on the other side, is rather simplistic and light
with its outboard engine. A scaled up canoe.

More interesting are kasten marine designs. But alas, the designer is
specialised in metal (steel ou alu).
A boat like the coast runner 48 ocean express 49 look more like what I
want.
But they are both semi planning aluminum boats, and only at the
preliminary
design stage today.


Also there are things I don't understand. M Kasten give 40 hp to reach 8
kts
on a 46.75 lwl, 32000# boat. G Bhueler claims 21 hp for 8.1 kts,with 46.3
lwl and 57000 # disp. Both single hard chine.

NB english is not my natural langage.
Thanks.



"Jacques Mertens" a écrit dans le message news:
...
Is ultralight trawler not a contradiction?
The boats you list and that some propose are all heavy as a trawler
shoudl
be.
How about a large dory? D. Gerr and G. Bhueler have designed some nice
ones.
Reuel Parker too.
That would be much easier to build, less expensive, lighter. A 50' dory
would move nicely with a 100 HP engine.

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:37:37 +0100, "VG" wrote:



The pilgrim 44, 10 000 # on the other side, is rather simplistic and light
with its outboard engine. A scaled up canoe.


The Pilgrim has an inboard/pilothouse version, too. I wouldn't cross
oceans with it, but I would be comfortable coasting and doing lakes.
It'll sip fuel, obviously, and being a GB design I trust it to be
sturdy.

-m

How about this one in plywood?

http://www.cmdboats.com/cp30.htm