(Backyard Renegade) wrote in
om:

John Fereira wrote in message
...
(Backyard Renegade) wrote in
om:

"Lefty" wrote in message
. net...
I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width, armspan,
etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat for my 6' skinny self
;-), and I'm not sure I want to do a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

Fiberglass work such as stitch and tape is much easier and faster
than woodwork and joinery. Having never built a skin on frame, I can
only say that there will probably less parts too in a S+T. Here is a
pretty interesting S+T kayak that could be built by a first time
builder:
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Buil...itchAndGluePla
ns. html The designer is very accessable and may be able to address
the "anotomical design rules", that is to say, he can probably tell
you if it is a good choice for you...

From what I've heard the stitch-n-glue/tape guillemot is fairly
difficult to build compared to most S&G designs.

The point about the woodworking/joinery for a skin-on-frame is a good
one though. Stitch-n-Glue boats, built from a kit, require very
little woodworking skills. I've known a couple of people that had no
prior woodworking experience whatsoever that built gorgeous
stitch-n-glue boats. If all the panels are pre-cut, as they are from
a kit, it's like putting together a large model.


Although I can see where it would be and it is noted as a difficult
build for a beginner, with patience it can be done and in the long run
you end up with so much more boat than the typical S&T paddle dory:
http://smallboats.com/iras_plans.htm

My point was simply that as far as Stitch-n-glue/tape desgigns go, the
construction of the S&G version of the guillemot appears to be more
difficult that most. I've also seen plans for a S&G baidarka that looks
like it would be even more difficult.

Last season a 17 YO Field Hockey star from down state decided she
wanted to build a boat, but had no experience. I sold her a kit and
like you said, she built a beautiful boat. I mean, you get what you
get. A nice stripper is going to be a better boat than a typical S&T,
but don't ever let anyone tell you that all S&T boats are floating
boxes anymore...

I've built both a S&G kayak (A CLC Northbay XL) and a cedar strip kayak (Jay
Babina's Outer Island) that I built from a set of plans (and millled my own
strips). The cedar strip boat was a considerable amount of work but likely
much more forgiving than a woodworking project like a set of kitchen
cabinets.

Backyard Renegade wrote:

Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...
Backyard Renegade wrote:

"Lefty" wrote in message . net...
I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width,
armspan, etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat
for my 6' skinny self ;-), and I'm not sure I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

Fiberglass work such as stitch and tape is much easier and faster than
woodwork and joinery.

I beg to differ. SOF building is a series of very simple steps. Remeber, these boats were originally built using
nothing but stone/bone/shell tools and whatever wood happened to wash up on shore. The process is VERY forgiving,
because it had to be.

I could build a S&T with only stone, bone and shell tools, a few
intestines for mixing glue, and a few pieces of sinew (sp?) to hold
things together, if I had to... And still with much fewer pieces to
cut with the stone, bone and shell..

Uh...yeah...right. I'd pay to see that! ;-)

Having never built a skin on frame, I can only
say that there will probably less parts too in a S+T.

Absolutely, but I'm not sure why that matters. None of the parts in an SOF is complex. They don't need to be held
to anywhere near the level of dimensional exactitude required for S&G construction.

But there is really no level of dimensional exactitude required for
S&G. A 1/4" gap is perfectly acceptable when filled with thickened
epoxy in many areas of construction.

Acceptable to whom? Anyone can do a crappy job of building a kayak, regardless of the method employed (I have a
commercially made wood boat that's seriously lacking in construction quality). The point is that SOF construction
methods are very tolerant of variations without sacrificing the quality, appearance or performance of the final
product. One could argue that SOFs are more "primative", regardless of how well they're built, but that's the nature of
the beast. However, they give up nothing in terms of performance compared to S&G boats. It's also extremely easy to
custom tailor an SOF to the paddler, since it's an integral part of the construction method. It doesn't require CAD or
lofting skills to do so. But, I digress...

Hmmm. It's starting to sound like I'm trying to claim superiority for SOF boats, which is NOT my intent. 'Nuff said.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking S&G and plan to build at least a couple soon. There are definite advantages
to hard shell boats, which is why I own a few, including one S&G.

No problem at all, I am not a fanatic either. My dream boat is a 17
foot mass produced fiberglass kayak that I have been eyeing for a
couple of years, and I am constantly sending potential customers down
the street for other than wooden boats when I think a composite or
other construction would be a better tool for their needs.

I've got all the composite boats I need and really don't see myself buying more unless the manufacturers start
producing lower volume boats. There are several wood boats that I WILL eventually build. Perhaps after my current SOF
is finished, I'll...

--
Regards

Brian

"William R. Watt" wrote:

skin on frame is labour intensive due to the many small parts.
the boat will not be a durable as plywood but will be much lighter.
www.gaboats.com is a skin-on-frame site. boat weights are listed.

This is only true in regards to Platt Monfort's boats, which are very light and
have very fragile skins. Traditional skin on frame boats (baidarkas and Greenland
kayaks) are much more rugged and weigh about the same as an equivalent size S&G
plywood/glass kayak. We're talking about two entirely different animals here.

--
Regards

Brian