I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width,
armspan, etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat
for my 6' skinny self ;-), and I'm not sure I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

"Lefty" wrote in message . net...
I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width,
armspan, etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat
for my 6' skinny self ;-), and I'm not sure I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

Fiberglass work such as stitch and tape is much easier and faster than
woodwork and joinery. Having never built a skin on frame, I can only
say that there will probably less parts too in a S+T. Here is a pretty
interesting S+T kayak that could be built by a first time builder:
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Buil...GluePlans.html
The designer is very accessable and may be able to address the
"anotomical design rules", that is to say, he can probably tell you if
it is a good choice for you...
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

skin on frame is labour intensive due to the many small parts.
the boat will not be a durable as plywood but will be much lighter.
www.gaboats.com is a skin-on-frame site. boat weights are listed.

"Lefty" ) writes:
I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width,
armspan, etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat
for my 6' skinny self ;-), and I'm not sure I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?




--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Hi Lefty ,

I have not ( yet ) built a skin on frame kayak . Other good books on the
subject are Chris Cunningham's and the newest one I am aware of is
written by Mark Starr which uses a slightly different technique . Mark
teaches kayak building at Mystic Seaport and he uses a more traditional
boat building technique for making the ribs . .I would recommend both of
these other books . Each has something alittle different or additional
supplemental information about the building and use of these types of
craft .

Anyway what I really wanted to do here is recommend that you check out
the Qajaq USA web site and its forum . There you will find plenty of
folks who have built sof kayaks using material from any and all of the
above mentioned books as well as other sources . Many folks there also
build s & g kayaks as well . In fact there is a current thread comparing
the two methods . Two of the best things about sof construction is 1)
about the most toxic thing you'll have to deal with is varnish 2) most
folks say they can build a sof for only about $200 - 400 . So , sign on
to that group and I am certain you will get lots of help and feedback
with any kayak building project .

I also wanted to point out a couple of other web sites concerned with
sof kayaks . But the Qajaq site is the one focused mostly on the
greenland style kayak . The Morris book also has other designs such as
the baidarka and the retrieval kayak amongst other designs . So I
include the other links . From them you can find other sites of interest
as well . Though folks on the Qajaq site also build baidarkas too .

By the way , be sure and download the summer 2003 newsletter "the MASIK
" from the Qajaq home page ( adobe .pdf format ) , great stuff .

This issue of the MASIK also has an article about an east arctic kayak
built by a fellow named Arko . Arko and I camped and paddled together at
a local lake a couple of weekends ago and it is a most interesting
design . Dr. David Zimmerly ( arctickayaks.com ) claims it is his
favorite design . It also has a couple of different articles about
greenland kayaks built using information from the Morris / Cunningham
books . And a short piece about Tom Yost's Symetrik . On the Qajaq forum
site you can find a thread about Tom's Sea Rider design , a design which
has performance comparable to or better than a BBK Valkerie according to
Mark Molina's post . Mark competed in the kayak competion in Greenland
this summer with good result . Tom builds some great boats , though not
of the type described in the Morris book . You can find a link to Toms
other boats from the robroy/baidarka site listed below , buried
somewhere inside the Henrik Maroske link found on the left side of the
web page . Tom apparently is building his own web site yostwerks , but
not to much there yet .

http://www.qajaqusa.org/

http://www.qajaqusa.org/cgi-bin/Gree...orum_config.pl

http://www.rtpnet.org/robroy/baidarka/

http://home.pacifier.com/~qayaq/

http://yostwerks.com/wat.jpg

http://yostwerks.com/symetrikpics.jpg



enjoy ,

David



Lefty wrote:

I borrowed the book .... written by Robert Morris ... I wonder if any
of you
.. would recommend another as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit .. I'm not sure
I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

Lefty wrote:

I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width,
armspan, etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat
for my 6' skinny self ;-), and I'm not sure I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

I built my first SOF using Morris' book and it came out OK, but only OK.
There are a few things that he forgot to include, such as a warning not
to put ribs under your butt and/or heels. Boats built per the book will
tend to have little shear or rocker, making for stiff tracking and a wet
ride. Still, it's a good book and I still use several of his techniques.

I suggest that you read Starr's and Cunningham's books too, as it will
give you alternative methods for various steps and help provide a better
overall understanding of the process. That will help you to determine
what will work best for you, given your level of paddling skill,
woodworking experience and available tools. The link to Qajaq USA site
that David provided may be your most valuable resource of all. It gives
you access to hundreds of SOF builders and paddlers.

--
Regards

Brian

Backyard Renegade wrote:

"Lefty" wrote in message . net...
I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width,
armspan, etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat
for my 6' skinny self ;-), and I'm not sure I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

Fiberglass work such as stitch and tape is much easier and faster than
woodwork and joinery.

I beg to differ. SOF building is a series of very simple steps. Remeber, these boats were originally built using
nothing but stone/bone/shell tools and whatever wood happened to wash up on shore. The process is VERY forgiving,
because it had to be.

Having never built a skin on frame, I can only
say that there will probably less parts too in a S+T.

Absolutely, but I'm not sure why that matters. None of the parts in an SOF is complex. They don't need to be held
to anywhere near the level of dimensional exactitude required for S&G construction.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking S&G and plan to build at least a couple soon. There are definite advantages
to hard shell boats, which is why I own a few, including one S&G.

--
Regards

Brian

Thanks all, I've started reading the qajaqusa site (I'd found it, but not
the building list). At this point it is total information overload ...
perhaps after a bit it will make sense.

Lefty wrote:

Thanks all, I've started reading the qajaqusa site (I'd found it, but not
the building list). At this point it is total information overload ...
perhaps after a bit it will make sense.

Just go to the Greenland Forum. I contains more than just building info, but
there's still plenty of it. Another good resource is the Kayak Building
Bulletin Board www.kayakforum.com.

--
Regards

Brian

Brian Nystrom wrote in message ...
Backyard Renegade wrote:

"Lefty" wrote in message . net...
I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width,
armspan, etc.) appeal to me (and will make a fast boat
for my 6' skinny self ;-), and I'm not sure I want to do
a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

Fiberglass work such as stitch and tape is much easier and faster than
woodwork and joinery.

I beg to differ. SOF building is a series of very simple steps. Remeber, these boats were originally built using
nothing but stone/bone/shell tools and whatever wood happened to wash up on shore. The process is VERY forgiving,
because it had to be.

I could build a S&T with only stone, bone and shell tools, a few
intestines for mixing glue, and a few pieces of sinew (sp?) to hold
things together, if I had to... And still with much fewer pieces to
cut with the stone, bone and shell..

Having never built a skin on frame, I can only
say that there will probably less parts too in a S+T.

Absolutely, but I'm not sure why that matters. None of the parts in an SOF is complex. They don't need to be held
to anywhere near the level of dimensional exactitude required for S&G construction.

But there is really no level of dimensional exactitude required for
S&G. A 1/4" gap is perfectly acceptable when filled with thickened
epoxy in many areas of construction.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking S&G and plan to build at least a couple soon. There are definite advantages
to hard shell boats, which is why I own a few, including one S&G.

No problem at all, I am not a fanatic either. My dream boat is a 17
foot mass produced fiberglass kayak that I have been eyeing for a
couple of years, and I am constantly sending potential customers down
the street for other than wooden boats when I think a composite or
other construction would be a better tool for their needs.

Scotty

John Fereira wrote in message ...
(Backyard Renegade) wrote in
om:

"Lefty" wrote in message
. net...
I borrowed the book with this title (title of the thread)
from my cousin. It was written by Robert Morris of the
Brewery Creek Small Boat Shop. I wonder if any of you
have built using this book, or would recommend another
as an alternative or supplement?

I had thought of building a stitch-and-glue kayak kit as
my fist boatbuilding project, but now I'm leaning this
way. The anotomical design rules (based on hip width, armspan, etc.)
appeal to me (and will make a fast boat for my 6' skinny self ;-), and
I'm not sure I want to do a lot of fiberglass work anyway.

Comments?

Fiberglass work such as stitch and tape is much easier and faster than
woodwork and joinery. Having never built a skin on frame, I can only
say that there will probably less parts too in a S+T. Here is a pretty
interesting S+T kayak that could be built by a first time builder:
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Buil...chAndGluePlans.
html The designer is very accessable and may be able to address the
"anotomical design rules", that is to say, he can probably tell you if
it is a good choice for you...

From what I've heard the stitch-n-glue/tape guillemot is fairly difficult to
build compared to most S&G designs.

The point about the woodworking/joinery for a skin-on-frame is a good one
though. Stitch-n-Glue boats, built from a kit, require very little
woodworking skills. I've known a couple of people that had no prior
woodworking experience whatsoever that built gorgeous stitch-n-glue boats.
If all the panels are pre-cut, as they are from a kit, it's like putting
together a large model.


Although I can see where it would be and it is noted as a difficult
build for a beginner, with patience it can be done and in the long run
you end up with so much more boat than the typical S&T paddle dory:
http://smallboats.com/iras_plans.htm
Last season a 17 YO Field Hockey star from down state decided she
wanted to build a boat, but had no experience. I sold her a kit and
like you said, she built a beautiful boat. I mean, you get what you
get. A nice stripper is going to be a better boat than a typical S&T,
but don't ever let anyone tell you that all S&T boats are floating
boxes anymore...
Scotty