Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James

From what I've read (no real experience), pirogues (which this boat
falls under IMO) are relatively tippy. As long as you stay low in the
boat, you should be ok. Personally, from looking at the design, I'd add
an oak 1x1 keel down the center.

Maybe Jacques will chime in...
Ed

James W. Sloan wrote:
Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James

Ed Edelenbos wrote in message ...
From what I've read (no real experience), pirogues (which this boat
falls under IMO) are relatively tippy. As long as you stay low in the
boat, you should be ok. Personally, from looking at the design, I'd add
an oak 1x1 keel down the center.

Almost. The real problem with Pirogues, and I have built and paddled a
few, is that initially they were used by cajuns to stand and pole
around the Bayou with no real concern as to which way the boat was
pointed... This creates a problem however when you want the boat to
paddle or row in straight, especially if there is any movement to the
water. Now when you convert this to a paddle or row boat you want to
have the directional stability of a rear skeg (can be full length) I
usually have mine start at 3/4 x 3/4 in the bow as you suggested, but
about mid hull start to taper out to about 2 1/2 to 3 inches high a
few inches forward of the stern. It is still a little tough to paddle
these things, I have not built Bateau's version, but the skeg helps a
lot. Maybe Jaques has one in the plan, forgive me if I did not look
and that is the case... if it is already there... nevermind.
Scotty from SmallBoats.com



Maybe Jacques will chime in...
Ed

James W. Sloan wrote:
Group,

I've found a couple of creeks I want to explore and I've decided to put
together the Bateau "Cheap Canoe". I don't expect much given that the plans
are free and the materials minimal. Anyone built one to these plans? Any
changes I should make? Is this a stable canoe (13' x 30") or is it
tender/tippy? Should I add a small keel? I'll likely use Luan and
epoxy/glass ( I have enough left over from other projects to go with the
"cheap" theme!).

Thanks in advance,

James

all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a bike.

flat bottom canoes track good. its not the flat bottom but the length to
beam ratio, curvature of the bottom fore-and-aft (called "rocker"),
and in a wind the height of the ends ("windage)" which deterime how well a
canoe tracks. a solo canoe is paddled heeled over sitting amidships to one
side which does put a hard chined canoe at a disadvantage. a lot of small
canoes are paddled flat with a double paddle like a kayak and they would
track better that way.

13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about 1
foot high. you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity
is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard. canoes are normally designed to
draw 4" in normal use. that's where they should perform best. a canoe with
less than 6" of freeboard is overloaded.

good luck.


--
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National Capital FreeNet www.ncf.ca Ottawa's free community network
website: www.ncf.ca/~ag384 "Tank, take me in."
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all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a
bike.

Yep...I've managed to roll myself out of a 17 foot aluminum canoe in flat
calm water!


13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about 1
foot high.

OK...I just never had the proportions visualized. I was wondering if this
was close to "normal" for a solo canoe. The sides are cut 1 foot wide with a
1 3/8 relief for some rocker. Looks like the end result is 10 5/8 high by
the plans, given the nesting on two sheets, I'll add what's available as a
little extra freeboard.

you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity
is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard.

The plans were free from Jaques at bateau.com. I'll check the site for some
info, I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple
boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If its
too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew.

Thanks,

James

James,

I just built one of these while waiting for my order of marine ply to come
in so I can get to work on a Michalak Vamp I;ve been thinking about since
January.

After talking to Richard Frye who built Yakoo, I changed the design
slightly by widening the spread in the center by 2", all other dimensions
are the same. This increased the rocker slightly so I added a 1 1/"4 high
keel full length on the bottom.

As for stability (which is why I made the yakoo change, Richard says it
makes the boat more stable in a turn), I'd agree with what has been said
before, tippier than a canoe. I haven't spent any time in a kayak so I
can't comment there. First couple of times I had it out I just sat on a
cushion, found that very tiring. Bought one of those folding low beach/sand
chairs and use it now, much more comfortable.

I made mine from 5.2mm Virola underlayment plywood from Home Depot, poly
resin, 3" glass tape-- used Bondo for some of the fillets, went to resin and
wood flour when I ran out of Bondo. Coated the inside with resin, decided
not to coat the outside when the weight hit just over 50 lbs-- the keel is
glassed, so that added some weight. Still manageble and easy to get on the
roof rack, but not the 40 lbs listed.

I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted,
I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another
foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder
impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I
don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and
fairly quick build and is fun to use.

I used one coat of Kilz primer and a couple coats of Krylon oil enamel and
it'll be stored outside-- so it's just about worst case scenario for a s&g
boat-- Poly resin, water resistant (not waterproof) ply, stored outside.
We'll see if it falls apart in a couple of years, but this was an experiment
anyway. Looks good (or so everybody tells me). I don't know whether a keel
is really necessary though. It does track straight but isn't all that easy
to turn in tight quarters unless you lean quite a bit. If it were built to
spec that might be better.

Here's a really cheap and cheesy page with some build photos:

http://geocities.com/craicer001/boatpics

No text, anybody who's researched s&g building has seen stuff like this a
million times. Too bad I couldn't find any semi-gloss paint though. I did
repaint the inside with "almond" Krylon after being nearly blinded by the
white gloss the first couple of times out!

Go on a build it, it's a fun boat and even if you use epoxy it's still not
an expensive boat.


Good luck,


Rick
"James W. Sloan" wrote in message
...

all canoes are tippy. you have to get used to using them. like riding a
bike.

Yep...I've managed to roll myself out of a 17 foot aluminum canoe in flat
calm water!


13 ft by 30 inches is normal for a solo canoe. the sides should be about
1
foot high.

OK...I just never had the proportions visualized. I was wondering if this
was close to "normal" for a solo canoe. The sides are cut 1 foot wide with
a
1 3/8 relief for some rocker. Looks like the end result is 10 5/8 high by
the plans, given the nesting on two sheets, I'll add what's available as a
little extra freeboard.

you can email the seller of the plans to ask what the capacity
is at 4" of draft and at 6" of freeboard.

The plans were free from Jaques at bateau.com. I'll check the site for
some
info, I hate to bug the guy on a freebie, especially for such a simple
boat!! What the heck, I'll just put her together and give it a shot. If
its
too tender for me, I'll pass it along to a nephew.

Thanks,

James

"Richard Cunningham" wrote in message

I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted,
I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another
foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder
impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I
don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and
fairly quick build and is fun to use.

Using a 90 inch paddle with what is probably a wide grip is what
disturbed the shoulder. Even if you feel strong enough to "push" the
paddle at that length, your shoulder joint (assume you are a human) is
probably not designed for that much leverage, at that angle... Get to
the paddling groups, or just take my word for it for now. Hope you did
not *!@! your shoulder to bad.
Nice boat by the way, good luck with your next build... and there will
be one...
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

"Richard Cunningham" wrote in message

I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though. Granted,
I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another
foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder
impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it), so I
don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and
fairly quick build and is fun to use.

Using a 90 inch paddle with what is probably a wide grip is what
disturbed the shoulder. Even if you feel strong enough to "push" the
paddle at that length, your shoulder joint (assume you are a human) is
probably not designed for that much leverage, at that angle... Get to
the paddling groups, or just take my word for it for now. Hope you did
not *!@! your shoulder to bad.
Nice boat by the way, good luck with your next build... and there will
be one...
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

Thanks Scotty,

Yeah, it's hard to say what caused the pain since I also mowed the grass
that day, which always gives me trouble. And you're right, pushing is what
causes the problem.

This Cheap Canoe was boat #2, I built a Steve Lewis LilJon first, and
glued up the butt joints today on a Michalak Vamp. This stuff'll eat your
brain!


Rick
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"Richard Cunningham" wrote in message

I do think the 7' paddle in the plans would be too short though.
Granted,
I increased the beam by 2", but my paddle is 90" and I could use another
foot. Unfortunately, using a double paddle has aggravated a shoulder
impingement I've been fighting for a while (rowing doesn't bother it),
so I
don't know how much I'll be using the boat myself-- but it's a fun and
fairly quick build and is fun to use.

Using a 90 inch paddle with what is probably a wide grip is what
disturbed the shoulder. Even if you feel strong enough to "push" the
paddle at that length, your shoulder joint (assume you are a human) is
probably not designed for that much leverage, at that angle... Get to
the paddling groups, or just take my word for it for now. Hope you did
not *!@! your shoulder to bad.
Nice boat by the way, good luck with your next build... and there will
be one...
Scotty from SmallBoats.com

Well...enough chat I suppose. I'll be off to the lumber store first thing in
the morning to get started! Thanks everyone for the insights and advice.
I'll post as the thing progresses......Hey Jaques, tell me in advance what
the first mistake I'll be making is. I can then move on to the second one
without delay!!!

James