I could use some advice from those of you with experience using free or
low-cost "beginner" CAD software suitable for designing & drawing small
boats.
I've hand-drawn plans in the past and have absolutely no experience using
CAD or any other aid but my current project is bending my brain.
I've found some shareware through Google, but have no idea which of the
offerings is suitable.
I 'll need some start-up education, too, so a book suggestion or two would
also be appreciated.

Thanx in advance for any help

chip in central florida

"chipster" wrote in message
nk.net...
I could use some advice from those of you with experience using free or
low-cost "beginner" CAD software suitable for designing & drawing small
boats.
I've hand-drawn plans in the past and have absolutely no experience using
CAD or any other aid but my current project is bending my brain.
I've found some shareware through Google, but have no idea which of the
offerings is suitable.
I 'll need some start-up education, too, so a book suggestion or two would
also be appreciated.


Worth being a bit clearer about exactly what you want to acheive with the
CAD program.

If you want to produce plans on paper in 2D that is fairly straightforward.
If you want to model 3d visualisations from pencil or 2d drawings that is
not too hard when you get the hang of it but quite time consuming.
If you want to do your primary design work in 3d and then use that data to
make templates, drawings, etc that is pretty hard.
If you want the CAD software to do calculations for you that can be highly
technical and require a lot of learning.

Actually if you are talking low-cost/free software you can't do the more
advanced stuff anyway, so here are my recommendations:
TurboCAD for 2d draughting - any version from V4 onwards will do a good job.
Not too hard to learn. There may be a free version. I find it very clumsy
for 3d work. Autocad compatible.
Sketchup for 3d visualisations. Delightfully easy to use, but as the name
implies it is for representational drawing, an architects 3d sketching tool,
not an engineerig aid.

HTH

Tim W

Hi
You shuld consider IntelliCAD that offer a free-download eval. version.
------ This is a 99. pct. AutoCAD clone , it offer all the calculations
you need but, to do these you must know the calculations or the program
; in Lisp you can write applications that is not covered in the various
functions but most are, such as section and volume calculations.
Sad thing is that the free version don't offer Solids, but besidt that
IntelliCAD is a splendid program it even let you open Cyber-Boat plans
and models.

Look for eval. version at ;
http://www.cadopia.com/

Good answer, Tim.

I messed with and developed CAD systems from 1965 thru 1998, but I couldn't
come up with a recommendation. These days I've reverted to the 2-D drawing
techniques I learned in high school and use Corel Draw to implement them.
(Tell it to work at 12" = 1' 0" and do your scaling in the print routine.)

Like most tools, it needs to fit YOUR hand. I got a copy of Evolution
Computing's "Easy CAD" with some piece of computer hardware I bought and I
loved it. These guys program my way -- minimal memory use and really fast
algorithms. I went thru the upgrades for a while and even bought their
"Fast CAD" which is 3D and includes all the bells and whistles. However, I
kept switching between it and Corel's Draw and that wiped out my dexterity
with either Both have good interfaces, but they are different.
http://www.fastcad.com/n-products.shtml

While Turbo CAD is low cost, I've never made it work for me. The "Man
Machine Interface" is as alien to me as that conjured up by DEC's database
designers. Wombats :-( (Yes, I bought the tutorial CDs, but ... )

For boat design, Greg Carlson's "Hulls" is worth every penny (it's free).
No, no. Sorry, Greg. It's a good program and it does the job within the
stated limitations. http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware It is
limited to six chines, and it has no error messages -- when you screw up, it
stops, but the interface is reasonable and the results are good. I used it
to lay out the strakes for the Chebacco I'm building, but it took two passes
because I needed seven chines for the six strakes. (The "wide sheer" pass
got the garboard strake and adjacents. The "wide garboard" got the sheer
strake and adjacents. The strakes in the middle matched to better than my
ability to cut plywood.)

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"chipster" wrote in message
nk.net...
I could use some advice from those of you with experience using
free or low-cost "beginner" CAD software suitable for designing
& drawing small boats.
I've hand-drawn plans in the past and have absolutely no experience using
CAD or any other aid but my current project is bending my brain.
I've found some shareware through Google, but have no idea which of the
offerings is suitable.
I 'll need some start-up education, too, so a book suggestion or two
would
also be appreciated.

Worth being a bit clearer about exactly what you want to acheive with the
CAD program.

If you want to produce plans on paper in 2D that is fairly
straightforward.
If you want to model 3d visualisations from pencil or 2d drawings that is
not too hard when you get the hang of it but quite time consuming.
If you want to do your primary design work in 3d and then use that data to
make templates, drawings, etc that is pretty hard.
If you want the CAD software to do calculations for you that can be highly
technical and require a lot of learning.

Actually if you are talking low-cost/free software you can't do the more
advanced stuff anyway, so here are my recommendations:
TurboCAD for 2d draughting - any version from V4 onwards will do a good
job.
Not too hard to learn. There may be a free version. I find it very clumsy
for 3d work. Autocad compatible.
Sketchup for 3d visualisations. Delightfully easy to use, but as the name
implies it is for representational drawing, an architects 3d sketching
tool,
not an engineerig aid.

HTH

Tim W

P.S. Re "book recommendations." Once the number of software books passes
six or seven feet of shelf space, I really feel one should just load the
program and click away. If it's not friendly enough to let you get started,
the learning curve is too long and life is too short. (Scan the manual's
intro and index to get an idea of what you should be able to do. Use the
help files and error messages to find out why you can't.)

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Roger Derby" wrote in message
nk.net...
Good answer, Tim.

I messed with and developed CAD systems from 1965 thru 1998, but I
couldn't come up with a recommendation. These days I've reverted to the
2-D drawing techniques I learned in high school and use Corel Draw to
implement them. (Tell it to work at 12" = 1' 0" and do your scaling in the
print routine.)

Like most tools, it needs to fit YOUR hand. I got a copy of Evolution
Computing's "Easy CAD" with some piece of computer hardware I bought and I
loved it. These guys program my way -- minimal memory use and really fast
algorithms. I went thru the upgrades for a while and even bought their
"Fast CAD" which is 3D and includes all the bells and whistles. However,
I kept switching between it and Corel's Draw and that wiped out my
dexterity with either Both have good interfaces, but they are different.
http://www.fastcad.com/n-products.shtml

While Turbo CAD is low cost, I've never made it work for me. The "Man
Machine Interface" is as alien to me as that conjured up by DEC's database
designers. Wombats :-( (Yes, I bought the tutorial CDs, but ... )

For boat design, Greg Carlson's "Hulls" is worth every penny (it's free).
No, no. Sorry, Greg. It's a good program and it does the job within the
stated limitations. http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware It is
limited to six chines, and it has no error messages -- when you screw up,
it stops, but the interface is reasonable and the results are good. I
used it to lay out the strakes for the Chebacco I'm building, but it took
two passes because I needed seven chines for the six strakes. (The "wide
sheer" pass got the garboard strake and adjacents. The "wide garboard"
got the sheer strake and adjacents. The strakes in the middle matched to
better than my ability to cut plywood.)

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"chipster" wrote in message
nk.net...
I could use some advice from those of you with experience using
free or low-cost "beginner" CAD software suitable for designing
& drawing small boats.
I've hand-drawn plans in the past and have absolutely no experience
using
CAD or any other aid but my current project is bending my brain.
I've found some shareware through Google, but have no idea which of the
offerings is suitable.
I 'll need some start-up education, too, so a book suggestion or two
would
also be appreciated.

Worth being a bit clearer about exactly what you want to acheive with the
CAD program.

If you want to produce plans on paper in 2D that is fairly
straightforward.
If you want to model 3d visualisations from pencil or 2d drawings that is
not too hard when you get the hang of it but quite time consuming.
If you want to do your primary design work in 3d and then use that data
to
make templates, drawings, etc that is pretty hard.
If you want the CAD software to do calculations for you that can be
highly
technical and require a lot of learning.

Actually if you are talking low-cost/free software you can't do the more
advanced stuff anyway, so here are my recommendations:
TurboCAD for 2d draughting - any version from V4 onwards will do a good
job.
Not too hard to learn. There may be a free version. I find it very clumsy
for 3d work. Autocad compatible.
Sketchup for 3d visualisations. Delightfully easy to use, but as the name
implies it is for representational drawing, an architects 3d sketching
tool,
not an engineerig aid.

HTH

Tim W

chipster,

I will be visiting my piece of FL, I bought 2.27 acres in Lake Tiger,
sometime before the year is over. I've been out of AUTOCAD for a while
now. I have AutoCad LT that you can have on cd and Autocad2000 on cd.
I don't use them anymore. I'll trade that for a day of sun & fun on a
boat when I get down there. I'll add in one evening of tutoring as
well, more if time permits.

Bryan

CAD or any other aid but my current project is bending my brain.
I've found some shareware through Google, but have no idea which of the
offerings is suitable.
I 'll need some start-up education, too, so a book suggestion or two would
also be appreciated.

I feel confortable with hullform, the shareware version.
I must inform that exist also freeship (www.freeship.org) a free software
under development, under gnu license.
It si free, you can try it...

Paolo

I've used both G Carlson's program and the program from Blue Peter
Designs, both free.

Carlson's program is for plywood boats or boats made of other "sheet goods"
I suppose, eg steel or aluminum. These boats are made by cutting out flat
panels and attaching them along the edges. The program even produces
coordiantes for cutting out the panels, and a computer file for automatic
cutting of the panels (Carlson sells automatic panel cutting equipment).
Carlson's file includes hulls contributed by other users, and there are
some add-ons and instructions written by users on various websites on the
Internet. The program also creates files that let you transfer the hull to
other CAD programs. You can get help with his program by asking here as I
have done. About the only thing I don't like about this program is it
won't let you have straight lines anywhere. It uses the usual curve
fitting algorithms between points and will not just draw a staight line.

The Blue Peter program I used was for DOS but I've heard they now have a
free Windows version. It can be used for smooth hulls, not just flat panel
hulls like Carlson's program. It also calculates more design metrics than
Carlson's program. You can get it to change the curvature in the curve
fitting algorithm, or draw straight lines, but it's, um, technical and I
was not able to use it.

I used both programs on a study for a plywood micro-cruiser and documented
the process on my website (see below) for other amateurs who might want to try
their hand at designing a boat. Look under "Boats" then "Designs".

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

You might also consider trying BearboatPro. It is a freeware program
for designing canoes or kayaks and will show front, side, and top views
of the hull you create. After finishing your design, you can print off
the forms to a standard printer to tape together to help you create
stations to build from.

Hope this helps,
Paul

"Roger Derby" schreef in bericht
ink.net...
P.S. Re "book recommendations." Once the number of software books passes
six or seven feet of shelf space, I really feel one should just load the
program and click away. If it's not friendly enough to let you get
started,
the learning curve is too long and life is too short. (Scan the manual's
intro and index to get an idea of what you should be able to do. Use the
help files and error messages to find out why you can't.)


Hmmm I don't totally agree with that.

My experience with CAD-software (Autocad, Mechanical Desktop,
Maxsurf/Workshop) is that it is best to learn by following some tutorials,
either out of a book (witch I find easier to use) or on the computer /
online.

I don't like manuals either and hardly ever use them (if nothing else
works...read the manual) (and don't find what you need), but although
Autocad (and other program's) is easy to use once you're into it, the
learning curve is steep in the beginning and my experience is that most
people learn to use the software after one or two days of following the
'tutorial' books.

Daniël
--
www.boekel.nu