Good answer, Tim.

I messed with and developed CAD systems from 1965 thru 1998, but I couldn't
come up with a recommendation. These days I've reverted to the 2-D drawing
techniques I learned in high school and use Corel Draw to implement them.
(Tell it to work at 12" = 1' 0" and do your scaling in the print routine.)

Like most tools, it needs to fit YOUR hand. I got a copy of Evolution
Computing's "Easy CAD" with some piece of computer hardware I bought and I
loved it. These guys program my way -- minimal memory use and really fast
algorithms. I went thru the upgrades for a while and even bought their
"Fast CAD" which is 3D and includes all the bells and whistles. However, I
kept switching between it and Corel's Draw and that wiped out my dexterity
with either Both have good interfaces, but they are different.
http://www.fastcad.com/n-products.shtml

While Turbo CAD is low cost, I've never made it work for me. The "Man
Machine Interface" is as alien to me as that conjured up by DEC's database
designers. Wombats :-( (Yes, I bought the tutorial CDs, but ... )

For boat design, Greg Carlson's "Hulls" is worth every penny (it's free).
No, no. Sorry, Greg. It's a good program and it does the job within the
stated limitations. http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware It is
limited to six chines, and it has no error messages -- when you screw up, it
stops, but the interface is reasonable and the results are good. I used it
to lay out the strakes for the Chebacco I'm building, but it took two passes
because I needed seven chines for the six strakes. (The "wide sheer" pass
got the garboard strake and adjacents. The "wide garboard" got the sheer
strake and adjacents. The strakes in the middle matched to better than my
ability to cut plywood.)

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"chipster" wrote in message
nk.net...
I could use some advice from those of you with experience using
free or low-cost "beginner" CAD software suitable for designing
& drawing small boats.
I've hand-drawn plans in the past and have absolutely no experience using
CAD or any other aid but my current project is bending my brain.
I've found some shareware through Google, but have no idea which of the
offerings is suitable.
I 'll need some start-up education, too, so a book suggestion or two
would
also be appreciated.

Worth being a bit clearer about exactly what you want to acheive with the
CAD program.

If you want to produce plans on paper in 2D that is fairly
straightforward.
If you want to model 3d visualisations from pencil or 2d drawings that is
not too hard when you get the hang of it but quite time consuming.
If you want to do your primary design work in 3d and then use that data to
make templates, drawings, etc that is pretty hard.
If you want the CAD software to do calculations for you that can be highly
technical and require a lot of learning.

Actually if you are talking low-cost/free software you can't do the more
advanced stuff anyway, so here are my recommendations:
TurboCAD for 2d draughting - any version from V4 onwards will do a good
job.
Not too hard to learn. There may be a free version. I find it very clumsy
for 3d work. Autocad compatible.
Sketchup for 3d visualisations. Delightfully easy to use, but as the name
implies it is for representational drawing, an architects 3d sketching
tool,
not an engineerig aid.

HTH

Tim W

P.S. Re "book recommendations." Once the number of software books passes
six or seven feet of shelf space, I really feel one should just load the
program and click away. If it's not friendly enough to let you get started,
the learning curve is too long and life is too short. (Scan the manual's
intro and index to get an idea of what you should be able to do. Use the
help files and error messages to find out why you can't.)

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Roger Derby" wrote in message
nk.net...
Good answer, Tim.

I messed with and developed CAD systems from 1965 thru 1998, but I
couldn't come up with a recommendation. These days I've reverted to the
2-D drawing techniques I learned in high school and use Corel Draw to
implement them. (Tell it to work at 12" = 1' 0" and do your scaling in the
print routine.)

Like most tools, it needs to fit YOUR hand. I got a copy of Evolution
Computing's "Easy CAD" with some piece of computer hardware I bought and I
loved it. These guys program my way -- minimal memory use and really fast
algorithms. I went thru the upgrades for a while and even bought their
"Fast CAD" which is 3D and includes all the bells and whistles. However,
I kept switching between it and Corel's Draw and that wiped out my
dexterity with either Both have good interfaces, but they are different.
http://www.fastcad.com/n-products.shtml

While Turbo CAD is low cost, I've never made it work for me. The "Man
Machine Interface" is as alien to me as that conjured up by DEC's database
designers. Wombats :-( (Yes, I bought the tutorial CDs, but ... )

For boat design, Greg Carlson's "Hulls" is worth every penny (it's free).
No, no. Sorry, Greg. It's a good program and it does the job within the
stated limitations. http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware It is
limited to six chines, and it has no error messages -- when you screw up,
it stops, but the interface is reasonable and the results are good. I
used it to lay out the strakes for the Chebacco I'm building, but it took
two passes because I needed seven chines for the six strakes. (The "wide
sheer" pass got the garboard strake and adjacents. The "wide garboard"
got the sheer strake and adjacents. The strakes in the middle matched to
better than my ability to cut plywood.)

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

"chipster" wrote in message
nk.net...
I could use some advice from those of you with experience using
free or low-cost "beginner" CAD software suitable for designing
& drawing small boats.
I've hand-drawn plans in the past and have absolutely no experience
using
CAD or any other aid but my current project is bending my brain.
I've found some shareware through Google, but have no idea which of the
offerings is suitable.
I 'll need some start-up education, too, so a book suggestion or two
would
also be appreciated.

Worth being a bit clearer about exactly what you want to acheive with the
CAD program.

If you want to produce plans on paper in 2D that is fairly
straightforward.
If you want to model 3d visualisations from pencil or 2d drawings that is
not too hard when you get the hang of it but quite time consuming.
If you want to do your primary design work in 3d and then use that data
to
make templates, drawings, etc that is pretty hard.
If you want the CAD software to do calculations for you that can be
highly
technical and require a lot of learning.

Actually if you are talking low-cost/free software you can't do the more
advanced stuff anyway, so here are my recommendations:
TurboCAD for 2d draughting - any version from V4 onwards will do a good
job.
Not too hard to learn. There may be a free version. I find it very clumsy
for 3d work. Autocad compatible.
Sketchup for 3d visualisations. Delightfully easy to use, but as the name
implies it is for representational drawing, an architects 3d sketching
tool,
not an engineerig aid.

HTH

Tim W

"Roger Derby" schreef in bericht
ink.net...
P.S. Re "book recommendations." Once the number of software books passes
six or seven feet of shelf space, I really feel one should just load the
program and click away. If it's not friendly enough to let you get
started,
the learning curve is too long and life is too short. (Scan the manual's
intro and index to get an idea of what you should be able to do. Use the
help files and error messages to find out why you can't.)


Hmmm I don't totally agree with that.

My experience with CAD-software (Autocad, Mechanical Desktop,
Maxsurf/Workshop) is that it is best to learn by following some tutorials,
either out of a book (witch I find easier to use) or on the computer /
online.

I don't like manuals either and hardly ever use them (if nothing else
works...read the manual) (and don't find what you need), but although
Autocad (and other program's) is easy to use once you're into it, the
learning curve is steep in the beginning and my experience is that most
people learn to use the software after one or two days of following the
'tutorial' books.

Daniël
--
www.boekel.nu

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:42:35 GMT, "Roger Derby"
wrote:
For boat design, Greg Carlson's "Hulls" is worth every penny (it's free).
No, no. Sorry, Greg. It's a good program and it does the job within the
stated limitations. http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware It is
limited to six chines, and it has no error messages -- when you screw up, it
stops, but the interface is reasonable and the results are good. I used it
to lay out the strakes for the Chebacco I'm building, but it took two passes
because I needed seven chines for the six strakes. (The "wide sheer" pass
got the garboard strake and adjacents. The "wide garboard" got the sheer
strake and adjacents. The strakes in the middle matched to better than my
ability to cut plywood.)

Actually, I downloaded 1.89 and it looks like it will do more than 20
chines now. Also, it has a few other minor changes.

Now if only he would add in a flat-bottom option for the nesting
diagram.....




email: dallyn_spam at yahoo dot com
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

Now if only he would add in a flat-bottom option for the nesting
diagram.....

Agreed. I got close enough by dragging the two halves together on one
sheet. I think you have to flip one over. The results are on the Solo15
microcruiser design on my website mentioned in a previous post in this
thread. (wesite address below, clikd on "Boats", "Designs", "Solo15") Look
at the panel layouts and the photos of the cardboard models.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

On 7 Sep 2005 22:37:55 GMT, (William R.
Watt) wrote:



Now if only he would add in a flat-bottom option for the nesting
diagram.....

Agreed. I got close enough by dragging the two halves together on one
sheet. I think you have to flip one over. The results are on the Solo15
microcruiser design on my website mentioned in a previous post in this
thread. (wesite address below, clikd on "Boats", "Designs", "Solo15") Look
at the panel layouts and the photos of the cardboard models.


Hey, just found an option in hulls 1.89 for flat bottom. When you
save the file, there is an option on the right side of the box that
says "save extras" there is an option in there to save the keel.

after saving it, you can then add the keel (or flat bottom) to the
nesting diagram as one piece.

works well. there are also extra frames, and "soles" you can save as
well. the soles are like if you had a v-hull, and wanted a flat
bottom at one of the chines. it saves one for every chine.




email: dallyn_spam at yahoo dot com
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

"Dave Allyn" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:42:35 GMT, "Roger Derby"
wrote:
For boat design, Greg Carlson's "Hulls" is worth every penny (it's free).
No, no. Sorry, Greg. It's a good program and it does the job within the
stated limitations. http://www.carlsondesign.com/#Fun_Shareware It is
limited to six chines, and it has no error messages -- when you screw up,
it
stops, but the interface is reasonable and the results are good. I used
it
to lay out the strakes for the Chebacco I'm building, but it took two
passes
because I needed seven chines for the six strakes. (The "wide sheer" pass
got the garboard strake and adjacents. The "wide garboard" got the sheer
strake and adjacents. The strakes in the middle matched to better than my
ability to cut plywood.)

Actually, I downloaded 1.89 and it looks like it will do more than 20
chines now. Also, it has a few other minor changes.

Now if only he would add in a flat-bottom option for the nesting
diagram.....

Newbie alert... I have only worked up very basic designs and built 2 boats.
Both were virtually visualized with the Carlson program. Both behave very
much like the program says it will (i.e. displacement calculations and
waterlines at a given load.) It is certainly worth every red cent spent.
(grin) Actually (and this surely defines me as a geek), the program is fun
to fiddle with doing things that I'll never build.

Ed