I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to
be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be
glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction adhesive,
and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood with a layer
of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the premium
construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin of the
transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the edges into
the rest of the boat.

How does that sound?

I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be
permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The
strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the
wood.

??



"Michael Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the
transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was
interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two
sides
were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet.
Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I
took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For
example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier
stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces),
and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem
logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces
rather
than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can
I
would have never been able to get to take the transom apart.



http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html





"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07...
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's
on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or
had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was
pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they
were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier
to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a
similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2
feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper
18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed
the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to
do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small
holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes
and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then
you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting
holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful
info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that
product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at
it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's
easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut
out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known
this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will
be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the
repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little
more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of
drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It
takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into
it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging
into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain
hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also
got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with
it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical
outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor
mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be
glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this
the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that
things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess
is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area
(to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out
http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the
transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold
the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but
the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net






--
sig goes here

Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass of
the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin
across the joint.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going to
be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to be
glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction
adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood
with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the
premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin
of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the
edges into the rest of the boat.

How does that sound?

I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will be
permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The
strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the
wood.

??



"Michael Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the
transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was
interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two
sides
were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed
wet.
Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I
took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For
example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier
stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces),
and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem
logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces
rather
than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can
I
would have never been able to get to take the transom apart.



http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html





"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07...
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think
it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or
an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff
or
had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was
pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one
aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how
easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things
that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around
existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they
were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood
before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be
easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you
are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a
similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2
feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper
18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and
sealed
the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared
to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small
holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of
the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes
and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary
support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then
you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting
holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful
info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that
product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at
it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's
easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut
out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known
this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will
be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the
repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little
more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of
drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It
takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can
evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into
it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging
into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain
hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also
got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout
the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here
with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical
outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor
mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be
glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next
1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this
the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that
things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess
is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to
both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and
to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area
(to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out
http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the
transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold
the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but
the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net






--
sig goes here

So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in?


"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass
of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin
across the joint.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going
to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to
be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction
adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood
with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the
premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer skin
of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and glass the
edges into the rest of the boat.

How does that sound?

I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will
be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The
strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into the
wood.

??



"Michael Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the
transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was
interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two
sides
were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed
wet.
Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw
I
took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For
example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier
stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces),
and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem
logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces
rather
than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop
can I
would have never been able to get to take the transom apart.



http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html





"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07...
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think
it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or
an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff
or
had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was
pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one
aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how
easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things
that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around
existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they
were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood
before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be
easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you
are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a
similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2
feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The
upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and
sealed
the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared
to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small
holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of
the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes
and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary
support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets,
then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting
holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of
useful
info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship
with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that
product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at
it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's
easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than
cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known
this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will
be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the
repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little
more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of
drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It
takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can
evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further
into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks
will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging
into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain
hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've
also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout
the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here
with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the
inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of
it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical
outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor
mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as
a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be
glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next
1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of
this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of
the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that
things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My
guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to
both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and
to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area
(to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out
http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the
transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but
sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots,
but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net






--
sig goes here

I'm no expert, you need to read the stuff by the epoxy people to get expert
advice on boat repairs ....
however everything I've read says to use epoxy not polyester for this sort
of repair. If you never want to do this job again do it the best way
possible now. The difference between using PL construction adhesive and
polyester resin compared with using epoxy and appropriate fillers is
probably less than $100. Once you get the hang of it ( try some small mixes
on scrap wood before you do the full job) it's easy to work with, much more
forgiving of fit-up time than pl or polyester, it's stronger, it bonds
better, it's more water resistant, and it's proven to do the job.

Others may well differ in their ideas on your situation, but it sounds like
you are investing lots of hours in a major repair, do it properly and you
will only have to do it once.

my take on repairs ( assuming everything is clean and a reasonable fit)
A) this does the structural part of the repair
- test fit everything, clamp it in place as a test run, take it apart
- put on the gloves, lay down something to catch the spills, drips, etc (
I'm a messy worker - this is essential for me!)
- mix some straight epoxy, paint it on every surface. ( makes sure it will
stick)
- mix more epoxy, add gluing filler to whatever consistency suits the job,
paint/trowel/ pour it on. ( fills the gaps)
- fit everything in place, clamp it up, scrape of excess (so you don't have
to sand it so much later)
( above in one session)
B) This makes it look nice
- when it's strong enough to take some loads, remove clamps, remove excess,
dribbles, spills etc. Do appropriate prep
for next coat ( depends on manufacturer, method, etc. )
- gloves, mix more epoxy , add fairing filler, fill holes and other bits you
missed, wait until it cures, sand ./ scrape/ whatever to remove high spots
- repeat these steps until you are satisfied with the appearance

C) This makes it last
- surface prep as per manufacturer's story
- paint to protect against UV damage.

I've probably opened a can of worms here and managed to upset all the
experts. But that's my take on it.
David



"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in?


"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass
of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin
across the joint.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going
to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to
be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction
adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood
with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the
premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer
skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and
glass the edges into the rest of the boat.

How does that sound?

I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will
be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The
strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into
the wood.

??



"Michael Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the
transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was
interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two
sides
were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed
wet.
Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw
I
took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom.
For
example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a
skier
stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces),
and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem
logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces
rather
than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop
can I
would have never been able to get to take the transom apart.



http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html





"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07...
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think
it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or
an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff
or
had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was
pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one
aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how
easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things
that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around
existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they
were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood
before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be
easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you
are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a
similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2
feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The
upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and
sealed
the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared
to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small
holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of
the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the
holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary
support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets,
then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting
holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of
useful
info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship
with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that
product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking
at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the
outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's
easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than
cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd
known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard
will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the
repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little
more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric
fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of
drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It
takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can
evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in
message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further
into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks
will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging
into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the
drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've
also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout
the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here
with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the
inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't
even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of
it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical
outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor
mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as
a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be
glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other
motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next
1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of
this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of
the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten,
and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that
things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My
guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to
both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and
to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area
(to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out
http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the
transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped
filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but
sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots,
but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net






--
sig goes here

Use epoxy resin. Just like they use on a new boat.

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in?


"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside glass
of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay some resin
across the joint.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going
to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to
be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction
adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire plywood
with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then apply the
premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of the outer
skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner skin, and
glass the edges into the rest of the boat.

How does that sound?

I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will
be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin. The
strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get into
the wood.

??



"Michael Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the
transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was
interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two
sides
were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed
wet.
Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw
I
took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom.
For
example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a
skier
stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces),
and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem
logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces
rather
than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop
can I
would have never been able to get to take the transom apart.



http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html





"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07...
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think
it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or
an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff
or
had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was
pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one
aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how
easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things
that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around
existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they
were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood
before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be
easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you
are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a
similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2
feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The
upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and
sealed
the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared
to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small
holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of
the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the
holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary
support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets,
then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting
holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of
useful
info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship
with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that
product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking
at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the
outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's
easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than
cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd
known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard
will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the
repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little
more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric
fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of
drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It
takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can
evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in
message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further
into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks
will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging
into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the
drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've
also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout
the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here
with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the
inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't
even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of
it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical
outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor
mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as
a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be
glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other
motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next
1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of
this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of
the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten,
and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that
things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My
guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to
both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and
to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area
(to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out
http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the
transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped
filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but
sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots,
but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net






--
sig goes here

"Chris" wrote in
:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get
at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top
off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of
the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the
wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost
every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it
was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been
interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It
would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in
whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of
this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take
the transom apart.

I'm not quite sure why after all this great work that you'd go back to
the same poor contrction of the original design. Wood is bad, it rots.

Construction adhesive is a terrible idea (IMNSHO). As others have
suggested, use all epoxy resin and saturate the edges with warmed resin
to seal them. You are using marine ply aren't you? If not STOP NOW...
regular ply will be rotten again in no time flat. I used regular ply to
replace the wood parts in a jon boat transom. I soaked the edges in
urethane and then gave it about 5 coats, it's starting to rot in about 2
years.

You should still look at the Sea Cast product. It will be less work,
fill the area completely and you won't have to test fit and fiddle with
the plywood. When you'd be done, you'd have a completely wood free
transom, no rot, ever. Engine mounting holes will not be a place for
water to leak into the core, nor will the inevitable ladder, speedo,
depth sounder, trim tab, and other holes taht get drilled in the
transom. Every one of these holes is a potential place for water to get
back in and cause wood rot... Lose the wood, really!

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net

Marine ply rots just like any other ply. The only difference between ACX
and Marine ply is the Marine has no internal voids. In a small engine
powered boat, the voids probably do not matter as to strength.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"Chris" wrote in
:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get
at the transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top
off was interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of
the two sides were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the
wood seemed wet. Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost
every bolt or screw I took out had visible deterioration wherever it
was in the transom. For example; the ski hooks would have been
interesting, I could see a skier stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces), and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It
would seem logical at this point to take the advise of putting in
whole pieces rather than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of
this fiberglass pop can I would have never been able to get to take
the transom apart.

I'm not quite sure why after all this great work that you'd go back to
the same poor contrction of the original design. Wood is bad, it rots.

Construction adhesive is a terrible idea (IMNSHO). As others have
suggested, use all epoxy resin and saturate the edges with warmed resin
to seal them. You are using marine ply aren't you? If not STOP NOW...
regular ply will be rotten again in no time flat. I used regular ply to
replace the wood parts in a jon boat transom. I soaked the edges in
urethane and then gave it about 5 coats, it's starting to rot in about 2
years.

You should still look at the Sea Cast product. It will be less work,
fill the area completely and you won't have to test fit and fiddle with
the plywood. When you'd be done, you'd have a completely wood free
transom, no rot, ever. Engine mounting holes will not be a place for
water to leak into the core, nor will the inevitable ladder, speedo,
depth sounder, trim tab, and other holes taht get drilled in the
transom. Every one of these holes is a potential place for water to get
back in and cause wood rot... Lose the wood, really!

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net

Ok, I'm convinced, and I've just finally found somewhere to buy the epoxy
after going to several stores, including C-Tire, HD, UAP, and 3 marine shops
without luck. I've been cruising the net for a while and finally found a
place.

Btw, the construction stuff I got was PL Premium, which I've read is highly
rated for many other parts of a boat, although from what I concluded during
all my reading is that for a transom it could very well hold, however it may
be a bit elastic thus not being the best. Along with the poundage per
square inch which would be less than epoxy. To further that as well, If I
wanted to seal the wood completely, then painting an epoxy on would do the
trick, while you can't really paint on PL and hope to fill every gap.

So I'll epoxy the ________ out of it...



"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
Use epoxy resin. Just like they use on a new boat.

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
So you're saying to just use the poly resin to glue it in?


"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
Why use construction adhesive? Use resin to glue it to the outside
glass of the transom. Cut the 2 pieces at a 45 degree angle and lay
some resin across the joint.

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'd like some opinions on this, I got the plywood already, and am going
to be cutting the 2 pieces for the transom shortly. These will have to
be glued together which I can do with the use of premium construction
adhesive, and screws. I was thinking of then coating the entire
plywood with a layer of poly... fiberglass resin to which I would then
apply the premium construction adhesive and glue it to the inside of
the outer skin of the transom. From there I can glass in the inner
skin, and glass the edges into the rest of the boat.

How does that sound?

I suspect by doing the above, the plywood will be well sealed, and will
be permanently in place against the inner part of the outside skin.
The strength should be there, and the water shouldn't be able to get
into the wood.

??



"Michael Gardner" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Chris" wrote:

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for
"This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at
the
transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off
was
interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two
sides
were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed
wet.
Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or
screw I
took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom.
For
example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a
skier
stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch
pieces),
and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would
seem
logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces
rather
than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop
can I
would have never been able to get to take the transom apart.



http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/transom/at.html





"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07...
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think
it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project
or an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat
stuff or
had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was
pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one
aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how
easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things
that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around
existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they
were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood
before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be
easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you
are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a
similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and
2 feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The
upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and
sealed
the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years
prepared to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small
holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of
the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the
holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary
support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets,
then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting
holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of
useful
info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship
with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that
product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking
at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the
outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's
easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than
cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd
known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard
will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the
repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little
more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric
fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of
drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry.
It takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can
evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in
message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further
into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks
will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging
into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the
drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've
also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout
the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here
with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the
inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't
even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of
it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical
outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor
mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such
as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be
glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other
motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next
1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of
this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of
the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten,
and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that
things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved
that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My
guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to
both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in,
and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new
area (to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out
http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the
transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped
filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but
sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots,
but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct
email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net






--
sig goes here

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:22:10 GMT, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

Marine ply rots just like any other ply. The only difference between ACX
and Marine ply is the Marine has no internal voids. In a small engine
powered boat, the voids probably do not matter as to strength.

I wonder if the Doug Fir used in exterior softwood ply is more durable
than the cheapo hardwood used in normal exterior and some marine ply.

Ply can be treated though it takes time to dry out, also there are
borate pellets that are put into the wood and release preserver if it
gets damp.

Maybe the OP should take a look at treated green ply for use 'below
grade', if it's covered in fibreglass it shouldn't look any different
in the end.

cheers,
Pete.