"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot
fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in
:

Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major,
I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in
the neighborhood of 500W solar

How big are these solar panels? A Kyocera KC120 panel at 120 watts is:
Max power: 120 Watts
Max voltage: 16.9 Volts
Max current: 7.10 Amps
Dimensions (LxWxD): 56.1" x 25.7" x 2.2"
Weight: 26.3 lbs

4 of those kinda hinders going on deck, I suppose. Or, do you mean 500
watt-hours per day?? 500 watts x 8 hours = 4 KWh/day...pretty nice!

, and a KISS wind generator in the
Caribbean. Various vendors suggest I take the wattage and divide by 3,
or 4 if really lousy weather, for a reasonable typical AH input,
daily. My math has that at 170-125AH/day, plus some other unknown -
but apparently pretty substantial - AH from a KISS.

Solar is useless on cloudy days, but that's when the wind is usually
blowing so you got it covered.

Speaking of wind power, have you see http://www.otherpower.com/
These homebrewers are really producing KWh!


Our anticipated daily budget is about 125AH; we'll have (for
simplicity in this calculation) ~1250AH capacity. It's our
presumption that we'll have 4-5 days capacity, in the most
unimaginable (in the Caribbean) circumstance of continuous no wind or
sun.

Have I missed something here?

No, not at all. The big inverters are great for QUICK and TEMPORARY loads,
even heavy loads if the battery banks can produce the heavy load currents
without sagging a lot.

Too bad boats don't use 48 volts instead of "car power". The whole thing
becomes much more efficient as the voltage rises.

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot
fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in
:

Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major,
I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in
the neighborhood of 500W solar

How big are these solar panels? A Kyocera KC120 panel at 120 watts is:
Max power: 120 Watts

Not really. That is advertising hype.

Max voltage: 16.9 Volts
Max current: 7.10 Amps
Dimensions (LxWxD): 56.1" x 25.7" x 2.2"
Weight: 26.3 lbs

4 of those kinda hinders going on deck, I suppose. Or, do you mean 500
watt-hours per day?? 500 watts x 8 hours = 4 KWh/day...pretty nice!

Useful power is more like 4 hours a day. 10AM to 2PM. Before and after
it is vastly reduced.

, and a KISS wind generator in the
Caribbean. Various vendors suggest I take the wattage and divide by 3,
or 4 if really lousy weather, for a reasonable typical AH input,
daily. My math has that at 170-125AH/day, plus some other unknown -
but apparently pretty substantial - AH from a KISS.

KISS is a great generator.

Solar is useless on cloudy days, but that's when the wind is usually
blowing so you got it covered.

Depends upon where you are.

Speaking of wind power, have you see http://www.otherpower.com/
These homebrewers are really producing KWh!

Sure, with 6' or better blades.


Our anticipated daily budget is about 125AH; we'll have (for
simplicity in this calculation) ~1250AH capacity. It's our
presumption that we'll have 4-5 days capacity, in the most
unimaginable (in the Caribbean) circumstance of continuous no wind or
sun.

Have I missed something here?

No, not at all. The big inverters are great for QUICK and TEMPORARY
loads,
even heavy loads if the battery banks can produce the heavy load currents
without sagging a lot.

Too bad boats don't use 48 volts instead of "car power". The whole thing
becomes much more efficient as the voltage rises.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:23:15 -0500, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

Too bad boats don't use 48 volts instead of "car power". The whole thing
becomes much more efficient as the voltage rises.

===========================================

It's not unheard of to use a 48 volt inverter bank. You lose the
ability to tie into your alternators for charging but if you have
reduntant generators and inverters that is not really an issue.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 21:23:15 -0500, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot
fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in
:

Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major,
I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in
the neighborhood of 500W solar

How big are these solar panels? A Kyocera KC120 panel at 120 watts is:
Max power: 120 Watts
Max voltage: 16.9 Volts
Max current: 7.10 Amps
Dimensions (LxWxD): 56.1" x 25.7" x 2.2"
Weight: 26.3 lbs

4 of those kinda hinders going on deck, I suppose. Or, do you mean 500
watt-hours per day?? 500 watts x 8 hours = 4 KWh/day...pretty nice!

, and a KISS wind generator in the
Caribbean. Various vendors suggest I take the wattage and divide by 3,
or 4 if really lousy weather, for a reasonable typical AH input,
daily. My math has that at 170-125AH/day, plus some other unknown -
but apparently pretty substantial - AH from a KISS.

Solar is useless on cloudy days, but that's when the wind is usually
blowing so you got it covered.

Speaking of wind power, have you see http://www.otherpower.com/
These homebrewers are really producing KWh!


Our anticipated daily budget is about 125AH; we'll have (for
simplicity in this calculation) ~1250AH capacity. It's our
presumption that we'll have 4-5 days capacity, in the most
unimaginable (in the Caribbean) circumstance of continuous no wind or
sun.

Have I missed something here?

No, not at all. The big inverters are great for QUICK and TEMPORARY loads,
even heavy loads if the battery banks can produce the heavy load currents
without sagging a lot.

Too bad boats don't use 48 volts instead of "car power". The whole thing
becomes much more efficient as the voltage rises.

Design development is under way for 42 volt car systems

Brian W

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
Design development is under way for 42 volt car systems

It's already there. AFAIK all new VW marine diesels have a 42V system to
power the injectors.

Meindert

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:

It's already there. AFAIK all new VW marine diesels have a 42V system to
power the injectors.

Meindert




I think the Toyota Prius hybrid takes this even further with a 480VDC
system, doesn't it? A friend has one and it's quite impressive, once you
get used to NOT starting the engine to take off from the parking lot.
That's a bit unnerving, just turning it on and driving away...(c;

Well whats wrong with a good electric blanket and a heavy comforter to keep
warm over night. That would be alot less taxing on an electrical system. You
still have to be able to recharge, but getting through the night should be
easy.

John

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Meindert Sprang" wrote in
:

It's already there. AFAIK all new VW marine diesels have a 42V system to
power the injectors.

Meindert




I think the Toyota Prius hybrid takes this even further with a 480VDC
system, doesn't it? A friend has one and it's quite impressive, once you
get used to NOT starting the engine to take off from the parking lot.
That's a bit unnerving, just turning it on and driving away...(c;

Well, back from the boat for a bit, and trying to keep up...

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot
fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in
:

Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major,
I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in
the neighborhood of 500W solar

How big are these solar panels? A Kyocera KC120 panel at 120 watts is:
Max power: 120 Watts
Max voltage: 16.9 Volts
Max current: 7.10 Amps
Dimensions (LxWxD): 56.1" x 25.7" x 2.2"
Weight: 26.3 lbs

4 of those kinda hinders going on deck, I suppose. Or, do you mean 500
watt-hours per day?? 500 watts x 8 hours = 4 KWh/day...pretty nice!

Well, that's sorta what I thought.

First, these (whatever they turn out to be, based solely on first, space,
and second, availability) will be run through an MPPT which will allow me
higher voltage/smaller wires - for example, ones designed for 24V systems..
Second, it appears I'll not be able to get the 500W I wanted - but quite
possibly more than 450, e.g 3x http://www.partsonsale.com/bp4170.pdf 170w
63x31, 34v or 4x http://www.affordable-solar.com/kc125g125watt.html 125w
56x26 24v but Third, these are going on our arch
http://www.justpickone.org/skip/gall...rch&star t=42
which, on construction, appears not to have the space above I'd expected.
So, back to the drawing boards for what will fit up there. You can muck
around in the rest of that gallery to see what else we'd looked at in coming
up with the specs and drawings. In any event, moving about on deck won't be
an issue..

None the less, 400W isn't out of the realm of possibility. Real world
experience suggests "normal" accumulation of something above 125AH/day...

The arch is in the rough welded stage, without any of the custom hang-ons,
at the moment. I assume it will be finished by my next time down there,
which I expect to be 10 days or so, when I'll take up the regimen of staying
on the boat for 3 weeks and coming home for one, in hopes of finishing in
May, as I have another surgery scheduled for June 6th, this time to relocate
muscle from my back to replace the dead ones in the rotator cuff...

L8R

Skip and Lydia, refitting as fast as we can


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"There is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply
messing about in boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Im not sure the MPPT controller allows for higher voltage/smaller wires. PV arrays are to some
extent constant current and a "12 volt" array will put out its maximum power at a voltage
typically higher than the battery. So if you hook the array up to a battery with a "cheap"
controller, it is basically a direct connection and the PV current stays about the same but the PV
array voltage drops to the battery voltage so you can lose a fair amount of delivered power. The
MPPT controller allows the array voltage to operate for maxiimun power while supplying current to
the battery at the batteries charge current. I have a 160 watt pannel (2x80w Kyocera) and
typically I might have 8 amps comming out of the panel and maybe 10.5 going into the battery (the
currents will of course vary all over depending on how much sunlight, angle, ect).

Also, the MPPT charger I have (Blue Sky - company used to be called RV) is intelegent about
properly charging the batteries which can make them last longer. Ive only had this product for
several months but think it was a good investment.

wh

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Well, back from the boat for a bit, and trying to keep up...

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot
fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote in
:

Hm. Help me with the math. As a lapsed math, physics and chem major,
I don't remember my stuff all that well. However, I'll have right in
the neighborhood of 500W solar

How big are these solar panels? A Kyocera KC120 panel at 120 watts is:
Max power: 120 Watts
Max voltage: 16.9 Volts
Max current: 7.10 Amps
Dimensions (LxWxD): 56.1" x 25.7" x 2.2"
Weight: 26.3 lbs

4 of those kinda hinders going on deck, I suppose. Or, do you mean 500
watt-hours per day?? 500 watts x 8 hours = 4 KWh/day...pretty nice!

Well, that's sorta what I thought.

First, these (whatever they turn out to be, based solely on first, space,
and second, availability) will be run through an MPPT which will allow me
higher voltage/smaller wires - for example, ones designed for 24V systems..
Second, it appears I'll not be able to get the 500W I wanted - but quite
possibly more than 450, e.g 3x http://www.partsonsale.com/bp4170.pdf 170w
63x31, 34v or 4x http://www.affordable-solar.com/kc125g125watt.html 125w
56x26 24v but Third, these are going on our arch
http://www.justpickone.org/skip/gall...rch&star t=42
which, on construction, appears not to have the space above I'd expected.
So, back to the drawing boards for what will fit up there. You can muck
around in the rest of that gallery to see what else we'd looked at in coming
up with the specs and drawings. In any event, moving about on deck won't be
an issue..

None the less, 400W isn't out of the realm of possibility. Real world
experience suggests "normal" accumulation of something above 125AH/day...

The arch is in the rough welded stage, without any of the custom hang-ons,
at the moment. I assume it will be finished by my next time down there,
which I expect to be 10 days or so, when I'll take up the regimen of staying
on the boat for 3 weeks and coming home for one, in hopes of finishing in
May, as I have another surgery scheduled for June 6th, this time to relocate
muscle from my back to replace the dead ones in the rotator cuff...

L8R

Skip and Lydia, refitting as fast as we can

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"There is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply
messing about in boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Where did the extra 2.5 amps come from?

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Walt" wrote in message ...
snip
... I have a 160 watt pannel (2x80w Kyocera) and
typically I might have 8 amps coming out of the panel and maybe 10.5 going
into the battery (the
currents will of course vary all over depending on how much sunlight,
angle, ect).