Don't be put off by people who tell you an amateur or a first timer can't
design and build a good boat. You can take a look at Paradox or Squeak
(read Ladd's "Three Years in a Twelve-foot Boat"), or Toad Hall if it's
still on the Internet. These are just a few examples of great amateur
sailing boat designs for coastal waters. Actually Toad Hall is supposed to
be offshore. The fellow who finally got the design of a trimaran right,
after so many professionals had tied and failed, was an insurance
salesman. Perhaps the most popular desinger of sailing catamarans for home
building (James Wharram) is an untrained amateur.

Some of Phil Bolger's boats may look like they've been designed by a first
time amateur but he's actually a fully trained professional with many
traditional boat designs to his credit. He just happens to design a line
of boats for performance and for ease of constrution by amateurs, rather
than for appearances.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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I have a friend who is a professional classical musician. I know how i'd
react if he said to me "Mozart, Schmozart! Though I have no training in it
and have never done it before, I'm going to compose my own violin concerto,
rent a hall and perform it. I expect that i'll get my usual crowd at the
usual prices.". I'd tell him to have a nice time and that i'll come if he
gives me a ticket.

Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't be
any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
trip.



"Thomas Veber" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

After building a simple plywood dinghy to test my capabilities, I now feel
confident to go on and realise an old dream: To build my own sail boat.
It's
going to be trailer-able and around 15-16 feet. With centerboard and a
little cabin with sleeping capabilities for two and a half.

I have searched the net, read a lot, and found many nice designs in this
category. But then I realised... Why not take it one step further and make
the design my self?

I have Googled some more, and found Carlson Designs "Hulls" program and
started playing with it. Fantastic that you can get such a program for
free!

But I know, that designing a Hull is one thing. Designing a seaworthy and
yet beautiful hull is another. And then designing centerboard, rudder,
rigg,
cabin, deck and so on is another thing. How do I know that the sails will
not tear it all apart in the first breeze? How do I ensure that the
sailing
capabilities will be Ok?

For this I am now asking here for any good advice, books, web pages etc.
which can help me. I have no particular time-frame, and I will rather do
this good, than ending up with a useless boat after spending thousinds of
hours in the shed building it.

Best regards,
Thomas

You will see a lot of argument here over the relative merits of careful
experienced designers (Bolger comes to mind ;-) And some boats, in some
applications, can be home designed - it would be hard to build a worse
jonboat than those commercially available! But in general, a tried-and
true design, or designer is a good idea.

But there are plenty of good, serviceable, easy-to-build designs out there
that will probably meet your needs. If, after a rigorous search, you can't
find the perfect boat for you, consider making minor modifications to an
existing design.

As to Jim's warnings: Even the best home-built boat has a resale value
approaching zero. Just please, when you launch a home-designed boat, take
it out a lot, alone. Preferably before you reproduce.

Sal's Dad



"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
I have a friend who is a professional classical musician. I know how i'd
react if he said to me "Mozart, Schmozart! Though I have no training in it
and have never done it before, I'm going to compose my own violin
concerto,
rent a hall and perform it. I expect that i'll get my usual crowd at the
usual prices.". I'd tell him to have a nice time and that i'll come if he
gives me a ticket.

Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't
be
any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
trip.



"Thomas Veber" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

After building a simple plywood dinghy to test my capabilities, I now
feel
confident to go on and realise an old dream: To build my own sail boat.
It's
going to be trailer-able and around 15-16 feet. With centerboard and a
little cabin with sleeping capabilities for two and a half.

I have searched the net, read a lot, and found many nice designs in this
category. But then I realised... Why not take it one step further and
make
the design my self?

I have Googled some more, and found Carlson Designs "Hulls" program and
started playing with it. Fantastic that you can get such a program for
free!

But I know, that designing a Hull is one thing. Designing a seaworthy and
yet beautiful hull is another. And then designing centerboard, rudder,
rigg,
cabin, deck and so on is another thing. How do I know that the sails will
not tear it all apart in the first breeze? How do I ensure that the
sailing
capabilities will be Ok?

For this I am now asking here for any good advice, books, web pages etc.
which can help me. I have no particular time-frame, and I will rather do
this good, than ending up with a useless boat after spending thousinds of
hours in the shed building it.

Best regards,
Thomas

"Sal's Dad" skrev i meddelandet
...

As to Jim's warnings: Even the best home-built boat has a resale value
approaching zero. Just please, when you launch a home-designed boat, take
it out a lot, alone. Preferably before you reproduce.

I am not doing this for money :-). If I spend these hours working instead of
designing/building, I could probably buy a very nice boat and still have
money left :-)

I actually already own a 30 ft. yacht from 1937. The whole idea now is
actually not to get a boat, but to build it. Ofcourse I have ideas on how to
use it when it is finished, but the goal is the building of it. The
satisfaction to sail a boat I have build with my own hands. Now the dream
just got one step further - the design.

Best regards,
Thomas

Thomas,

Sorry for the acidic tone - this weekend, at the Snow Row in Hull Mass, I
was shown a very interesting, home-designed boat. Construction and finish
were gorgeous, and the builder had gone through remarkable effort to get
"approval" from a testing lab. But it was a radical design, which may - or
may not - work, and it wasn't obvious (to me) that it would meet the
builder's needs.

That brought to mind another story I saw not long ago, a fellow who spent 20
years or so building his dream boat - but he had NEVER been sailing! As I
recall the outcome was not real positive.

There are so many dreamers on this group, who would be well-served buying or
borrowing an older day-sailor, skiff, or runabout, and getting out on the
water for a few days! Sorry I didn't pick up from your note that you are
not in that category...

Hope you have read all of Gerr's and Bolger's books - not for specific
designs, but to understand the thinking. Look at the Atkins catalog. And
'Messing About in Boats' has a lot of good info, especially if you, like me,
are one of the people who enjoys Robb White.

Sal's Dad


As to Jim's warnings: Even the best home-built boat has a resale value
approaching zero. Just please, when you launch a home-designed boat,
take it out a lot, alone. Preferably before you reproduce.

I am not doing this for money :-). If I spend these hours working instead
of designing/building, I could probably buy a very nice boat and still
have money left :-)

I actually already own a 30 ft. yacht from 1937. The whole idea now is
actually not to get a boat, but to build it. Ofcourse I have ideas on how
to use it when it is finished, but the goal is the building of it. The
satisfaction to sail a boat I have build with my own hands. Now the dream
just got one step further - the design.

Best regards,
Thomas

"Sal's Dad" skrev i meddelandet
...

"approval" from a testing lab. But it was a radical design, which may -
or may not - work, and it wasn't obvious (to me) that it would meet the
builder's needs.

I do not want a radical design, but a classic design. Probably cutter
rigged, and maybe with a gaff or gunther rigg. Furthermore I am willing to
sacrifice comfort for getting a more elegant boat - e.g. by not having a too
tall cabin. Most boats I have seen have a (very) tall cabin, which ofcourse
is needed on small boats to get the comfort. I would rather have a 5 inch
lower cabin but then get a more elegant boat. The "Weekender" is actually a
nice boat, but I am not very fond of the interior and the single-chine
("cigar-box") design. But ofcourse this eases the building.

That brought to mind another story I saw not long ago, a fellow who spent
20 years or so building his dream boat - but he had NEVER been sailing!
As I recall the outcome was not real positive.

I am very aware of this also. And that is why I want to limit the size to
15-16 feet. A smaller boat should be faster to build (or maybe I should put
my words like this: A smaller boat does not take as long time to build as a
larger boat :-).

Hope you have read all of Gerr's and Bolger's books - not for specific
designs, but to understand the thinking. Look at the Atkins catalog. And
'Messing About in Boats' has a lot of good info, especially if you, like
me, are one of the people who enjoys Robb White.

I will try to find these books. Thank you for the advice.

Best regards,
Thomas

Not quite true on the resale value. I've seen several Tolmans sell for $25k
to $30k. They have a strong reputation.

Brian D


"Sal's Dad" wrote in message
...
You will see a lot of argument here over the relative merits of careful
experienced designers (Bolger comes to mind ;-) And some boats, in some
applications, can be home designed - it would be hard to build a worse
jonboat than those commercially available! But in general, a tried-and
true design, or designer is a good idea.

But there are plenty of good, serviceable, easy-to-build designs out there
that will probably meet your needs. If, after a rigorous search, you
can't find the perfect boat for you, consider making minor modifications
to an existing design.

As to Jim's warnings: Even the best home-built boat has a resale value
approaching zero. Just please, when you launch a home-designed boat, take
it out a lot, alone. Preferably before you reproduce.

Sal's Dad



"Jim Conlin" wrote in message
...
I have a friend who is a professional classical musician. I know how i'd
react if he said to me "Mozart, Schmozart! Though I have no training in
it
and have never done it before, I'm going to compose my own violin
concerto,
rent a hall and perform it. I expect that i'll get my usual crowd at the
usual prices.". I'd tell him to have a nice time and that i'll come if
he
gives me a ticket.

Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't
be
any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
trip.



"Thomas Veber" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

After building a simple plywood dinghy to test my capabilities, I now
feel
confident to go on and realise an old dream: To build my own sail boat.
It's
going to be trailer-able and around 15-16 feet. With centerboard and a
little cabin with sleeping capabilities for two and a half.

I have searched the net, read a lot, and found many nice designs in this
category. But then I realised... Why not take it one step further and
make
the design my self?

I have Googled some more, and found Carlson Designs "Hulls" program and
started playing with it. Fantastic that you can get such a program for
free!

But I know, that designing a Hull is one thing. Designing a seaworthy
and
yet beautiful hull is another. And then designing centerboard, rudder,
rigg,
cabin, deck and so on is another thing. How do I know that the sails
will
not tear it all apart in the first breeze? How do I ensure that the
sailing
capabilities will be Ok?

For this I am now asking here for any good advice, books, web pages etc.
which can help me. I have no particular time-frame, and I will rather do
this good, than ending up with a useless boat after spending thousinds
of
hours in the shed building it.

Best regards,
Thomas

"Jim Conlin" skrev i meddelandet
...

Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't
be
any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
trip.

I certainly understand your arguments, but even Mozard started somewhere.
But probably he did not have newsgroups, books and computer programs to help
him. So hopefully my odds will be better in succeeding :-).

But ofcourse: My posting here is to get ideas and inspiration and good
advice. This could end up with, that I buy one of the many plans available
instead of trying a design myself. But one has to start somewhere...

Best regards,
Thomas

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:00:55 GMT, "Thomas Veber"
wrote:


"Jim Conlin" skrev i meddelandet
...

Same with boats. If you're willing to stand the risk that the boat won't
be
any good and will have zero value (or worse, drown someone), have a nice
trip.

I certainly understand your arguments, but even Mozard started somewhere.
But probably he did not have newsgroups, books and computer programs to help
him. So hopefully my odds will be better in succeeding :-).

But ofcourse: My posting here is to get ideas and inspiration and good
advice. This could end up with, that I buy one of the many plans available
instead of trying a design myself. But one has to start somewhere...

Best regards,
Thomas

Well, about Mozart. If you were the naval architect equivalent of
Mozart you would have designed and built a good competitive Moth class
boat at the age of five.

You do have to start somewhere. Maybe you can take inspiration from
supercomputer pioneer Seymore Cray. For many hears he built a new boat
every winter, and burned it at the end of the Minnesota sailing
season.



Rodney Myrvaagnes Opinionated old geezer

Brutal dictators are routinely reelected by 90+%
margins. Only in a truly advanced democracy can
one win an election by a negative 600,000 votes.

"Rodney Myrvaagnes" skrev i meddelandet
...

Well, about Mozart. If you were the naval architect equivalent of
Mozart you would have designed and built a good competitive Moth class
boat at the age of five.

You do have to start somewhere. Maybe you can take inspiration from
supercomputer pioneer Seymore Cray. For many hears he built a new boat
every winter, and burned it at the end of the Minnesota sailing
season.

It was not very fair to make a comparision with Mozart, I know. And I am not
a naval architect, and maybe I will put the whole project on ice again. But
even if I do put the project on ice, I did a try.

When you have a dream, I think that you owe yourself to try to realise it.
Else you will end up as a grumpy, old man saying to yourself on your last
days: "Why didn't I do this, and why didn't I do that?". I think it is much
better saying "I did it, but I failed. But at least I tried". And probably
my plans will never be realised, but I owe myself to try: Maybe I can come
up with something that I can enjoy many years in the future. Maybe not :-)

Best regards,
Thomas