On 21 Aug 2004 11:44:46 GMT, ospam (Stephen Baker)
wrote:

Glenn says:

I will have to admit to an old programming axiom:
"Within every complex program there is a simple one struggling to get
out." :-)

I have always held that it is easier to design a complex system than a simple
one that does the same thing. My father always kept a piece of card with
"Simplify" writ upon it stuck to his drawing board light. And he followed his
own advice. ;-)

Steve

Famous aero design concept:
Simplicate and add lightness

Brian W

Brian says:

Famous aero design concept:
Simplicate and add lightness

True, except that boatbuilders' budgets usually don't allow for that much
weight reduction. Lost weight always costs about 10 times what it would have
cost to leave it there. And that has been true since the dugout....

Steve

On 22 Aug 2004 03:08:27 GMT, ospam (Stephen Baker)
wrote:

Brian says:

Famous aero design concept:
Simplicate and add lightness

True, except that boatbuilders' budgets usually don't allow for that much
weight reduction. Lost weight always costs about 10 times what it would have
cost to leave it there. And that has been true since the dugout....

Steve

The opportunity cost of weight is different afloat, I'd think. There
is a decrement in freeboard, I suppose, with its increment in skin
friction: but either the operating speed is low, so the friction is
modest; or the speed is high, and the excess weight is hauled out of
the wash on the plane, wouldn't you think?

Brian W

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 13:30:05 GMT, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

Famous aero design concept:
Simplicate and add lightness

True, except that boatbuilders' budgets usually don't allow for that much
weight reduction. Lost weight always costs about 10 times what it would have
cost to leave it there. And that has been true since the dugout....


The opportunity cost of weight is different afloat, I'd think. There
is a decrement in freeboard, I suppose, with its increment in skin
friction: but either the operating speed is low, so the friction is
modest; or the speed is high, and the excess weight is hauled out of
the wash on the plane, wouldn't you think?

================================================== ==========

For most cruising sailboats there is little payback in reducing weight
but the designers of racing sailboats go to fanatical trouble and
expense to reduce weight. The benefits are much more than reduced
friction. Weight aloft causes increased heeling and pitching. Weight
in the ends increases pitching. Weight anywhere decreases
acceleration. Weight in the hull is better served by increased weight
in the keel.

Wayne B says:

but the designers of racing sailboats go to fanatical trouble and
expense to reduce weight.

That's the one I was referring to. A 40' boat weighing in at around 20,000 lbs
is usually not too expensive whereas a 40-footer at 8,000 lbs begins to strain
the wallet. ;-)

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Yes, but race boat designers don't have to worry about the rate of beer
cooling or galley slave mutiny. Cruising boats need to balance
stability of the boat against stability of the crew. :-)

Stephen Baker wrote:
Wayne B says:


but the designers of racing sailboats go to fanatical trouble and
expense to reduce weight.


That's the one I was referring to. A 40' boat weighing in at around 20,000 lbs
is usually not too expensive whereas a 40-footer at 8,000 lbs begins to strain
the wallet. ;-)

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:41:56 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
wrote:

Cruising boats need to balance
stability of the boat against stability of the crew. :-)

=================================

All of which are influenced by the stability of the skipper... :-)

Glenn says:

Yes, but race boat designers don't have to worry about the rate of beer
cooling or galley slave mutiny.

Thank god! ;-)

Cruising boats need to balance
stability of the boat against stability of the crew. :-)

By law, all crews are unstable - that's why the captain is always the Supreme
Ruler of his little world. ;-))

Steve

Yes! Right now I'm looking into the poential of building a large enough
barge upon which to park a fully "tricked out" Motor Home. I'm assessing
the windage relative to the motor homes slab sides which should reduce the
need for a large sail plan. I think of it as the cruisers' answer to the
ultimate "eXtreme" racing boat. :-)

Fred

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:7a3Wc.2574$A91.2234@okepread02...
Yes, but race boat designers don't have to worry about the rate of beer
cooling or galley slave mutiny. Cruising boats need to balance
stability of the boat against stability of the crew. :-)

Stephen Baker wrote:
Wayne B says:


but the designers of racing sailboats go to fanatical trouble and
expense to reduce weight.


That's the one I was referring to. A 40' boat weighing in at around
20,000 lbs
is usually not too expensive whereas a 40-footer at 8,000 lbs begins to
strain
the wallet. ;-)

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

In some boats, the value of light weight is considerable. For the light multihull
i'm building, my ballpark figure for the value of a pound saved is about $50. If
the boat were 500# (1/3) heavier, i reckon its value would be diminished by $25K.
Admittedly, this is extreme, but teh concept is useful.

Stephen Baker wrote:

Wayne B says:

but the designers of racing sailboats go to fanatical trouble and
expense to reduce weight.

That's the one I was referring to. A 40' boat weighing in at around 20,000 lbs
is usually not too expensive whereas a 40-footer at 8,000 lbs begins to strain
the wallet. ;-)

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm