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#12
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:52:55 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article , says... On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:14:45 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On 6/22/2011 7:47 PM, scp wrote: Thank you. It's in the short list. I want it as light as possible but steady enough to fish from. Any fabric on frame options? It may be sacrilege to say this on a boat building group but a twelve foot aluminum is hard to beat. I live in what is called cortege country. Seems like there's one of these little fishing boats tied up to 90% of the docks around here. Some of them are older than the trees that produced the wood you will use and may well be around long after your wooden boat has returned to the forest. A used twelve footer in decent condition around here may sell for less than the cost of the wood to build a boat that size. LdB Well, for the most part you are probably correct. I think part of the problem is most noobies consider building a boat to save money, but it won't happen, you have to build for other reasons or it really isn't worth it. That being said, everyone should build a boat at least once in their lives to this may be reason enough for the original poster... and I hope it is. Anyway, although the eight foot pram might seem a good bet, it's very small for two, and quite frankly harder to build than say a 12 foot skiff, skin on frame version of this boat: http://smallboats.com/images/stanleysie3_500.jpg The lightest (with skin on frame method, not depicted in the above photo) that I have ever built one of these is about 125 pounds. It's a bit wide for a standard roof rack, but one can get it onto a pickup bed easily by themselves. A nice tradeoff that can be built at about 85 pounds is this: http://smallboats.com/kc_01.htm type of boat. (I have built them as light as 80 pounds but a beginner is probably going to use more epoxy and such so figure 90 lbs) A 10+ foot pointy skiff with a narrow tail for easy rowing or very small (2 horse or under) engine... This one would fit on a modified (widened) standard roof rack on most cars... The 12 footer boat is great for two, and a dog, a cooler, poles, etc. although crowded with all that gear, you just can't safely do it with an 8 footer. 8 footers are really better suited for tending a moore. The ten footer will hold a lot too but it is strictly for protected water. Here is a pic of on with well over 500 pounds of my friends aboard, it will hold quite a bit... Here is a picture of the light weight ten footer with two of my buds in, each well over 250 lbs... Check out the freeboard still available: http://smallboats.com/images/jimandrandy_250.jpg Ok, in conclusion, I think your best bet is a pointy skiff of skin (6mm occoume) on frame (douglass fir, or spruce)... from your original post, I think the 10+ foot "rowboat" which accommodates a very small engine might be your best bet... Just my .02... Scotty The plywood skin on frame method is not as simple as I thought it might be. At least as described by Thosmas J, Hill. Next, Gavin Atkins. Then on to the fabric-on-frame method. Any fan of Geodesic Airolite boats here? I think they are great, but maybe not the tool for you. If you are timid about skin on frame then really not for you What do you find difficult about skin on frame just out of curiosity? You build a transom, a couple bulkheads, out of framing lumber, and bend some plywood around it with a bit of glue and a few nails to hold things together from what I know... Probably not the way you do it. If I remember correctly, several years ago I built one that way because I was too lazy to follow the pattern I purchased. Unfortunately I made it too small because I was not willing to scarf-join plywood. I didn't bother to fiberglass it. Maybe I can salvage it somehow by turning it into a double chine boat. But probably not worth the trouble. I'm wondering why jonboats are so heavy. Anything under 80 pounds? |
#13
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
In article , says...
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:52:55 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:14:45 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On 6/22/2011 7:47 PM, scp wrote: Thank you. It's in the short list. I want it as light as possible but steady enough to fish from. Any fabric on frame options? It may be sacrilege to say this on a boat building group but a twelve foot aluminum is hard to beat. I live in what is called cortege country. Seems like there's one of these little fishing boats tied up to 90% of the docks around here. Some of them are older than the trees that produced the wood you will use and may well be around long after your wooden boat has returned to the forest. A used twelve footer in decent condition around here may sell for less than the cost of the wood to build a boat that size. LdB Well, for the most part you are probably correct. I think part of the problem is most noobies consider building a boat to save money, but it won't happen, you have to build for other reasons or it really isn't worth it. That being said, everyone should build a boat at least once in their lives to this may be reason enough for the original poster... and I hope it is. Anyway, although the eight foot pram might seem a good bet, it's very small for two, and quite frankly harder to build than say a 12 foot skiff, skin on frame version of this boat: http://smallboats.com/images/stanleysie3_500.jpg The lightest (with skin on frame method, not depicted in the above photo) that I have ever built one of these is about 125 pounds. It's a bit wide for a standard roof rack, but one can get it onto a pickup bed easily by themselves. A nice tradeoff that can be built at about 85 pounds is this: http://smallboats.com/kc_01.htm type of boat. (I have built them as light as 80 pounds but a beginner is probably going to use more epoxy and such so figure 90 lbs) A 10+ foot pointy skiff with a narrow tail for easy rowing or very small (2 horse or under) engine... This one would fit on a modified (widened) standard roof rack on most cars... The 12 footer boat is great for two, and a dog, a cooler, poles, etc. although crowded with all that gear, you just can't safely do it with an 8 footer. 8 footers are really better suited for tending a moore. The ten footer will hold a lot too but it is strictly for protected water. Here is a pic of on with well over 500 pounds of my friends aboard, it will hold quite a bit... Here is a picture of the light weight ten footer with two of my buds in, each well over 250 lbs... Check out the freeboard still available: http://smallboats.com/images/jimandrandy_250.jpg Ok, in conclusion, I think your best bet is a pointy skiff of skin (6mm occoume) on frame (douglass fir, or spruce)... from your original post, I think the 10+ foot "rowboat" which accommodates a very small engine might be your best bet... Just my .02... Scotty The plywood skin on frame method is not as simple as I thought it might be. At least as described by Thosmas J, Hill. Next, Gavin Atkins. Then on to the fabric-on-frame method. Any fan of Geodesic Airolite boats here? I think they are great, but maybe not the tool for you. If you are timid about skin on frame then really not for you What do you find difficult about skin on frame just out of curiosity? You build a transom, a couple bulkheads, out of framing lumber, and bend some plywood around it with a bit of glue and a few nails to hold things together from what I know... Probably not the way you do it. If I remember correctly, several years ago I built one that way because I was too lazy to follow the pattern I purchased. Unfortunately I made it too small because I was not willing to scarf-join plywood. I didn't bother to fiberglass it. Maybe I can salvage it somehow by turning it into a double chine boat. But probably not worth the trouble. I'm wondering why jonboats are so heavy. Anything under 80 pounds? Not really, using "conventional" materials and techniques that I am aware of. Quite possibly the other poster hit it right, you need an aluminum boat... Nothing at all wrong with that if you just want to get on the water. If it's just a light, easy, low maintenance, dependable boat you want, could be the way to go. -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life! |
#14
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
On 6/23/2011 1:14 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In articleueWdnYpDQPR6557TnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@supernews .com, says... On 6/22/2011 7:47 PM, scp wrote: Thank you. It's in the short list. I want it as light as possible but steady enough to fish from. Any fabric on frame options? It may be sacrilege to say this on a boat building group but a twelve foot aluminum is hard to beat. I live in what is called cortege country. Seems like there's one of these little fishing boats tied up to 90% of the docks around here. Some of them are older than the trees that produced the wood you will use and may well be around long after your wooden boat has returned to the forest. A used twelve footer in decent condition around here may sell for less than the cost of the wood to build a boat that size. LdB Well, for the most part you are probably correct. I think part of the problem is most noobies consider building a boat to save money, but it won't happen, you have to build for other reasons or it really isn't worth it. That being said, everyone should build a boat at least once in their lives to this may be reason enough for the original poster... and I hope it is. I agree that to do it is reason enough. I built the house I live in and am now making the cupboards out of what is considered firewood by most. I suppose the biggest decision is what's more important, fishin' or buildin'. I'm sure that question would make most stop and think for a few seconds. By the way, I own an older sailboat. I could probably have built one in the time I've spent fixin'. LdB |
#15
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:19:45 -0500, LdB wrote:
On 6/23/2011 1:14 PM, I_am_Tosk wrote: In articleueWdnYpDQPR6557TnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@supernews .com, says... On 6/22/2011 7:47 PM, scp wrote: Thank you. It's in the short list. I want it as light as possible but steady enough to fish from. Any fabric on frame options? It may be sacrilege to say this on a boat building group but a twelve foot aluminum is hard to beat. I live in what is called cortege country. Seems like there's one of these little fishing boats tied up to 90% of the docks around here. Some of them are older than the trees that produced the wood you will use and may well be around long after your wooden boat has returned to the forest. A used twelve footer in decent condition around here may sell for less than the cost of the wood to build a boat that size. LdB Well, for the most part you are probably correct. I think part of the problem is most noobies consider building a boat to save money, but it won't happen, you have to build for other reasons or it really isn't worth it. That being said, everyone should build a boat at least once in their lives to this may be reason enough for the original poster... and I hope it is. I agree that to do it is reason enough. I built the house I live in and am now making the cupboards out of what is considered firewood by most. I suppose the biggest decision is what's more important, fishin' or buildin'. I'm sure that question would make most stop and think for a few seconds. By the way, I own an older sailboat. I could probably have built one in the time I've spent fixin'. LdB It never ends :-) I had my last sailboat for 15 years and was still fixin when I sold it. Cheers, Bruce |
#16
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:17:11 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article , says... On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:52:55 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:14:45 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... On 6/22/2011 7:47 PM, scp wrote: Thank you. It's in the short list. I want it as light as possible but steady enough to fish from. Any fabric on frame options? It may be sacrilege to say this on a boat building group but a twelve foot aluminum is hard to beat. I live in what is called cortege country. Seems like there's one of these little fishing boats tied up to 90% of the docks around here. Some of them are older than the trees that produced the wood you will use and may well be around long after your wooden boat has returned to the forest. A used twelve footer in decent condition around here may sell for less than the cost of the wood to build a boat that size. LdB Well, for the most part you are probably correct. I think part of the problem is most noobies consider building a boat to save money, but it won't happen, you have to build for other reasons or it really isn't worth it. That being said, everyone should build a boat at least once in their lives to this may be reason enough for the original poster... and I hope it is. Anyway, although the eight foot pram might seem a good bet, it's very small for two, and quite frankly harder to build than say a 12 foot skiff, skin on frame version of this boat: http://smallboats.com/images/stanleysie3_500.jpg The lightest (with skin on frame method, not depicted in the above photo) that I have ever built one of these is about 125 pounds. It's a bit wide for a standard roof rack, but one can get it onto a pickup bed easily by themselves. A nice tradeoff that can be built at about 85 pounds is this: http://smallboats.com/kc_01.htm type of boat. (I have built them as light as 80 pounds but a beginner is probably going to use more epoxy and such so figure 90 lbs) A 10+ foot pointy skiff with a narrow tail for easy rowing or very small (2 horse or under) engine... This one would fit on a modified (widened) standard roof rack on most cars... The 12 footer boat is great for two, and a dog, a cooler, poles, etc. although crowded with all that gear, you just can't safely do it with an 8 footer. 8 footers are really better suited for tending a moore. The ten footer will hold a lot too but it is strictly for protected water. Here is a pic of on with well over 500 pounds of my friends aboard, it will hold quite a bit... Here is a picture of the light weight ten footer with two of my buds in, each well over 250 lbs... Check out the freeboard still available: http://smallboats.com/images/jimandrandy_250.jpg Ok, in conclusion, I think your best bet is a pointy skiff of skin (6mm occoume) on frame (douglass fir, or spruce)... from your original post, I think the 10+ foot "rowboat" which accommodates a very small engine might be your best bet... Just my .02... Scotty The plywood skin on frame method is not as simple as I thought it might be. At least as described by Thosmas J, Hill. Next, Gavin Atkins. Then on to the fabric-on-frame method. Any fan of Geodesic Airolite boats here? I think they are great, but maybe not the tool for you. If you are timid about skin on frame then really not for you What do you find difficult about skin on frame just out of curiosity? You build a transom, a couple bulkheads, out of framing lumber, and bend some plywood around it with a bit of glue and a few nails to hold things together from what I know... Probably not the way you do it. If I remember correctly, several years ago I built one that way because I was too lazy to follow the pattern I purchased. Unfortunately I made it too small because I was not willing to scarf-join plywood. I didn't bother to fiberglass it. Maybe I can salvage it somehow by turning it into a double chine boat. But probably not worth the trouble. I'm wondering why jonboats are so heavy. Anything under 80 pounds? Not really, using "conventional" materials and techniques that I am aware of. Quite possibly the other poster hit it right, you need an aluminum boat... Nothing at all wrong with that if you just want to get on the water. If it's just a light, easy, low maintenance, dependable boat you want, could be the way to go. It appears that I would rather make a boat without using complex patters or lofting. I guess I would be using the simplified chine log method and probably build a PoorBoy skiff. http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisbo...orBoySkiff.htm Not sure how good it would be for rowing, but I don't need to row too far. |
#17
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
In article , says...
http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisbo...orBoySkiff.htm Looks like a great boat, but for rowing and very small engines, I might take 4 inches away from the transom width just to give it a better trailing edge for small (human) power. Trust me, even 6 inches if you never plan on putting on an engine, it will row twice as well as the plan you have here now which is wide and would be great if you were running a two to three horse engine... Look at the boat this size I built specifically for rowing; http://smallboats.com/images/current...ter_05_400.jpg Basically the same boat you are contemplating, just specifically with the narrow transom for better rowing efficiency... This boat weighed 80 pounds and was made from 6mm occoume and mahogany trim/framing... The chines were not "logged", I used a 3/4 inches fillet of epoxy and filler, and covered the bottom and 4 inches up the sides with 4 oz tight weave fiberglass to protect the bottom from rocks... -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life! |
#18
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:20:40 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article , says... http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisbo...orBoySkiff.htm Looks like a great boat, but for rowing and very small engines, I might take 4 inches away from the transom width just to give it a better trailing edge for small (human) power. Trust me, even 6 inches if you never plan on putting on an engine, it will row twice as well as the plan you have here now which is wide and would be great if you were running a two to three horse engine... Look at the boat this size I built specifically for rowing; http://smallboats.com/images/current...ter_05_400.jpg Basically the same boat you are contemplating, just specifically with the narrow transom for better rowing efficiency... This boat weighed 80 pounds and was made from 6mm occoume and mahogany trim/framing... The chines were not "logged", I used a 3/4 inches fillet of epoxy and filler, and covered the bottom and 4 inches up the sides with 4 oz tight weave fiberglass to protect the bottom from rocks... Thanks. The boat looks great. I will probably play with paper models of the design first. I wonder what would be the best glue to use for making cardboard boat models. |
#19
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
In article , says...
On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:20:40 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisbo...orBoySkiff.htm Looks like a great boat, but for rowing and very small engines, I might take 4 inches away from the transom width just to give it a better trailing edge for small (human) power. Trust me, even 6 inches if you never plan on putting on an engine, it will row twice as well as the plan you have here now which is wide and would be great if you were running a two to three horse engine... Look at the boat this size I built specifically for rowing; http://smallboats.com/images/current...ter_05_400.jpg Basically the same boat you are contemplating, just specifically with the narrow transom for better rowing efficiency... This boat weighed 80 pounds and was made from 6mm occoume and mahogany trim/framing... The chines were not "logged", I used a 3/4 inches fillet of epoxy and filler, and covered the bottom and 4 inches up the sides with 4 oz tight weave fiberglass to protect the bottom from rocks... Thanks. The boat looks great. I will probably play with paper models of the design first. I wonder what would be the best glue to use for making cardboard boat models. Use Scotch tape and oak tag (manilla folder, or file folder, etc.). The scotch tape makes it easy to make adjustments as you can use an exacto to slice and move it as you modify without a huge buildup of glue, etc... Don't worry too much. Build it around the transom, bulkheads, and stem. For my boat I used three sheets of plywood. Here's a hint. I used 15 inch sides and one sheet made them both. Then I basically built the rest of the boat around them... Take one of the sheets of plywood and cut it into three 15 inch by 8 foot strips. Then cut one of the strips in half at a 40-45 degree angle. Take one half and butt joint it to one of the 8 foot strips, and the other half to the second 8 foot strip and now you have two 12 foot sides that bent around the outside of your bulkheads and attached to the transom, will leave you with about a 10 and a half foot boat... Build your transom, and then build two bulkheads, then build a stem. Bevel your stem and attach the two sides temporarily. Bend the sides around your bulkheads and tack it to the transom... adjust your bevels, and epoxy and nail it all in place. Apply your chine logs (inside or outside) and lay your plywood over the bottom, scribe it out, cut it out, and fasten it on using stitch and glue, or hard chines glue and nail.. Flip the hull, Attach your gunnels, put in your seats, add some cheap flotation, couple of decent oar locks, and paint it up... Always wear a life jacket, and don't chince out on the oars. I mean, you can make them yourself. Your first thought will be to use short oars, packing, and all that, but trust me, get a set of 10 footers, they will move that boat like a dream... Good luck and take pictures.. Good luck Scotty -- Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life! |
#20
posted to rec.boats.building
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rowboat -- lightest but easiest to build
On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 23:30:49 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article , says... On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:20:40 -0400, I_am_Tosk wrote: In article , says... http://www.angelfire.com/ego/lewisbo...orBoySkiff.htm Looks like a great boat, but for rowing and very small engines, I might take 4 inches away from the transom width just to give it a better trailing edge for small (human) power. Trust me, even 6 inches if you never plan on putting on an engine, it will row twice as well as the plan you have here now which is wide and would be great if you were running a two to three horse engine... Look at the boat this size I built specifically for rowing; http://smallboats.com/images/current...ter_05_400.jpg Basically the same boat you are contemplating, just specifically with the narrow transom for better rowing efficiency... This boat weighed 80 pounds and was made from 6mm occoume and mahogany trim/framing... The chines were not "logged", I used a 3/4 inches fillet of epoxy and filler, and covered the bottom and 4 inches up the sides with 4 oz tight weave fiberglass to protect the bottom from rocks... Thanks. The boat looks great. I will probably play with paper models of the design first. I wonder what would be the best glue to use for making cardboard boat models. Use Scotch tape and oak tag (manilla folder, or file folder, etc.). The scotch tape makes it easy to make adjustments as you can use an exacto to slice and move it as you modify without a huge buildup of glue, etc... Don't worry too much. Build it around the transom, bulkheads, and stem. For my boat I used three sheets of plywood. Here's a hint. I used 15 inch sides and one sheet made them both. Then I basically built the rest of the boat around them... Take one of the sheets of plywood and cut it into three 15 inch by 8 foot strips. Then cut one of the strips in half at a 40-45 degree angle. Take one half and butt joint it to one of the 8 foot strips, and the other half to the second 8 foot strip and now you have two 12 foot sides that bent around the outside of your bulkheads and attached to the transom, will leave you with about a 10 and a half foot boat... Build your transom, and then build two bulkheads, then build a stem. Bevel your stem and attach the two sides temporarily. Bend the sides around your bulkheads and tack it to the transom... adjust your bevels, and epoxy and nail it all in place. Apply your chine logs (inside or outside) and lay your plywood over the bottom, scribe it out, cut it out, and fasten it on using stitch and glue, or hard chines glue and nail.. Flip the hull, Attach your gunnels, put in your seats, add some cheap flotation, couple of decent oar locks, and paint it up... Always wear a life jacket, and don't chince out on the oars. I mean, you can make them yourself. Your first thought will be to use short oars, packing, and all that, but trust me, get a set of 10 footers, they will move that boat like a dream... Good luck and take pictures.. Good luck Scotty Thanks a lot. I'm not worried; I'm just too lazy to actually do it right away. I used to love fishing, but I haven't fished for a decade. I do have other hobbies. I need to clean the "barn" first, as it is full of green wood for the other hobby. Have you even made a jonboat in the same way or in a kind of simplified chine log way? |
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