Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:07:12 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:27:25 -0600, cavelamb
wrote:

Every time wrote:
My question might be too estoteric for this group, but thought I'd
give it a try anyway.

I am trying to think of the term used to describe the ornate sterns of
ships such as the HMS Victory, with the windows and the gold
scrollwork, etc. It's on the tip of my tongue - I used to know what it
was called - but it just won't come to me.

Not fretwork, or cottagework, or Tudorwork, but something along those
lines.

Any help appreciated.
I've heard it referred to as brightwork?
I think that "brightwork" usually refers to varnished or gilded trim.
Perhaps "coachwork", but it is a guess.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I think I picked that up from Patrick O'Brien.
The gilded part is the trick he was referring to.

Paint, in the olden days, wasn't used all that much.
Mostly for trim coloring, ala the Nelson Checker (black and white) with the
occasional blue or yellow. Red wasn't really available.

And varnish? Never heard of.
Lacquer, yes, but seldom on ships.


Richard

Red not available? Red is one of the more common colors available to
primitive people. Iron oxide in one form or another. Barn paint was
ferrous oxide or even red laterite, lime and sour milk. However this
was hardly a bright, vibrant red :-)

Varnishes were available and used to protect paintings since at least
the 1400's and consisted of natural resins. But unlikely to have been
used aboard ship, other then perhaps the captains personal
furnishings.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

And red ochre used by many tribes around the world.

Gingerbread! I knew it was something along those lines!

Thanks!

On Dec 31 2009, 11:02*am, Every time wrote:
Gingerbread! I knew it was something along those lines!

Thanks!

No, that is not it.

Its called the Taffrail.

Look in wikipedia for a picture of a "taffrail."

The term comes from the Dutch word for an ornately decorated stern of
a ship

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:27:38 -0800 (PST), "jim.isbell"
wrote:

On Dec 31 2009, 11:02*am, Every time wrote:
Gingerbread! I knew it was something along those lines!

Thanks!

No, that is not it.

Its called the Taffrail.

Look in wikipedia for a picture of a "taffrail."

The term comes from the Dutch word for an ornately decorated stern of
a ship


I did as you directed and read, "A Taffrail is the aftermost railing
around the stern of a ship, often, but not always, ornately carved. A
taffrail log is an object dragged from the stern ..."

Note the "often, but not always, ornately carved".

Try
http://images.google.co.th/images?q=... d=0CCIQsAQwAw
more information on taffrail.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Jan 1, 6:34*pm, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:27:38 -0800 (PST), "jim.isbell"

wrote:
On Dec 31 2009, 11:02*am, Every time wrote:
Gingerbread! I knew it was something along those lines!

Thanks!

No, that is not it.

Its called the Taffrail.

Look in wikipedia for a picture of a "taffrail."

The term comes from the Dutch word for an ornately decorated stern of
a ship

That is the "newer" definition. It comes from the original Dutch
which SPECIFICALLY refers to an ornately decorated stern rail.
Wikipedia shows a picture of the stern of such a ship in their
definition. Later it came to refer to ONLY the upper rail. But the
original poster wanted to know the term to refer to the ornately
decorated stern. Taffrail IS that term. Gingerbread is a landlubber
term for the decorations under the eves of the house often seen at the
peak of the roof. It does not refer to a boat.


I did as you directed and read, "A Taffrail is the aftermost railing
around the stern of a ship, often, but not always, ornately carved. A
taffrail log is an object dragged from the stern ..."

Note the "often, but not always, ornately carved".

Tryhttp://images.google.co.th/images?q=taffrail&oe=utf-8&rls=com.ubuntu:...
more information on taffrail.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 08:16:41 -0800 (PST), "jim.isbell"
wrote:

On Jan 1, 6:34*pm, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:27:38 -0800 (PST), "jim.isbell"

wrote:
On Dec 31 2009, 11:02*am, Every time wrote:
Gingerbread! I knew it was something along those lines!

Thanks!

No, that is not it.

Its called the Taffrail.

Look in wikipedia for a picture of a "taffrail."

The term comes from the Dutch word for an ornately decorated stern of
a ship

That is the "newer" definition. It comes from the original Dutch
which SPECIFICALLY refers to an ornately decorated stern rail.
Wikipedia shows a picture of the stern of such a ship in their
definition. Later it came to refer to ONLY the upper rail. But the
original poster wanted to know the term to refer to the ornately
decorated stern. Taffrail IS that term. Gingerbread is a landlubber
term for the decorations under the eves of the house often seen at the
peak of the roof. It does not refer to a boat.

First you state that taffrail comes from the Dutch word for an ornate
stern of a ship and then you state that it comes from the word that
specifically refers to an ornately decorated stern rail.

I don't think you can have it both ways. Either the term applies to a
stern or a rail.

The closest word in Dutch might be "tafel" - which means table.
Gebeeldhouwd means carved and a carved railing would be gebeeldhouwd
hekwerk.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 07:57:22 +0700 Bruce In Bangkok
) wrote:
First you state that taffrail comes from the Dutch word for an ornate
stern of a ship and then you state that it comes from the word that
specifically refers to an ornately decorated stern rail.

I don't think you can have it both ways. Either the term applies to a
stern or a rail.

The closest word in Dutch might be "tafel" - which means table.
Gebeeldhouwd means carved and a carved railing would be gebeeldhouwd
hekwerk.

Taffrail sounds also very much like "tafereel" and guess what Google
gave with "taffrail tafereel": http://www.dictionary.net/taffrail

--
Richard
e-mail: vervang/replace invalid door/with NL.net