Our local club had a "flare shoot" event yesterday, where people
brought a few out-dated flares to practice firing them. It's a great
idea to become familiar with how your flares work, so that under
stress & in difficult circumstances, it will be more likely that you
can successfully use them.

Here is what we learned: More expensive really is better. We have a
25mm flare pistol instead of a 12g, and the aerial flares it shoots go
more than twice as high and are more than twice as bright. Needless to
say, the gun & it's flares are a good bit more expensive (maybe more
than 2x). It also has noticable recoil and a MUCH louder report.

The oldest flares in the shoot expired in the late 1980s (no it wasn't
me that had kept them all those years). The flares still burned
brightly, but the match-style strikers were soft & crumbly &
ineffective. It would be very difficult or impossible to light one of
these in a storm, however once you got one going you could chain-smoke
them easily.

The flares we brought were between 5 & 12 years old, and all except
one (more below) worked perfectly.

Paines-Wessex makes a hand held flare that has a compression striker
inside a spring-loaded cap (labelled Mark 7). They are easy to light,
the striker is sealed, and they are more than twice as bright as the
cheaper more common Orion handheld flares. I'm getting some as soon as
I can find them.

In general, SOLAS-rated flares are lot better and worth the extra
money... it is far more difficult to see distress signals under
adverse conditions than you can believe, until you've been there.

Hand held flares drip burning phosphorus/paraffin so they must be held
carefully.

Orange smoke markers are great. They will attract a lot more attention
during the daytime than a flare. Unlike normal flares, burning two at
once will be much more effective.

An alternative to the flare gun are the hand launched rockets. I have
bunch of these, and some are expired, so I brought one to see how it
would work. Unfortunately, the striker failed. It was one of those
pull-string kind and I don't know if it wasn't pulled sharply enough
or if the striker was defective. However, I now realize that these
things are very limited and you don't get a second chance to try them.
I won't be getting more, but I may look for some percussion cap
ignited HH rockets.

I'm not sure what was permissions were necessary to do this, I have
asked the USCG before to hold a practice flare shoot and they always
laughed and said 'Not only no, but H#%% NO!' I have practiced shooting
flares on the 4th of July but that's not approved either. One thing to
be careful of is accidentally setting underbrush on fire ashore... yes
it really happens!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 07:30:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote
this crap:

Our local club had a "flare shoot" event yesterday, where people
brought a few out-dated flares to practice firing them. It's a great
idea to become familiar with how your flares work, so that under
stress & in difficult circumstances, it will be more likely that you
can successfully use them.


yeah. We do this once a year. Always get good flares.

We fire off expired flares.




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

wrote in message
...
Our local club had a "flare shoot" event yesterday, where people
brought a few out-dated flares to practice firing them. It's a great
idea to become familiar with how your flares work, so that under
stress & in difficult circumstances, it will be more likely that you
can successfully use them.

Here is what we learned: More expensive really is better. We have a
25mm flare pistol instead of a 12g, and the aerial flares it shoots go
more than twice as high and are more than twice as bright. Needless to
say, the gun & it's flares are a good bit more expensive (maybe more
than 2x). It also has noticable recoil and a MUCH louder report.

The oldest flares in the shoot expired in the late 1980s (no it wasn't
me that had kept them all those years). The flares still burned
brightly, but the match-style strikers were soft & crumbly &
ineffective. It would be very difficult or impossible to light one of
these in a storm, however once you got one going you could chain-smoke
them easily.

The flares we brought were between 5 & 12 years old, and all except
one (more below) worked perfectly.

Paines-Wessex makes a hand held flare that has a compression striker
inside a spring-loaded cap (labelled Mark 7). They are easy to light,
the striker is sealed, and they are more than twice as bright as the
cheaper more common Orion handheld flares. I'm getting some as soon as
I can find them.

In general, SOLAS-rated flares are lot better and worth the extra
money... it is far more difficult to see distress signals under
adverse conditions than you can believe, until you've been there.

Hand held flares drip burning phosphorus/paraffin so they must be held
carefully.

Orange smoke markers are great. They will attract a lot more attention
during the daytime than a flare. Unlike normal flares, burning two at
once will be much more effective.

An alternative to the flare gun are the hand launched rockets. I have
bunch of these, and some are expired, so I brought one to see how it
would work. Unfortunately, the striker failed. It was one of those
pull-string kind and I don't know if it wasn't pulled sharply enough
or if the striker was defective. However, I now realize that these
things are very limited and you don't get a second chance to try them.
I won't be getting more, but I may look for some percussion cap
ignited HH rockets.

I'm not sure what was permissions were necessary to do this, I have
asked the USCG before to hold a practice flare shoot and they always
laughed and said 'Not only no, but H#%% NO!' I have practiced shooting
flares on the 4th of July but that's not approved either. One thing to
be careful of is accidentally setting underbrush on fire ashore... yes
it really happens!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Excellent report! A couple of items... one I'm sure is obvious...

Make sure you stay well away from people and sails. It's really easy to burn
up a sail.

While flares do get old and have problems, as you discovered, there's
nothing wrong with keeping slightly out of date flares around. It's better
to have six flares in an emergeny than just three, for example. I keep my
slightly expired flares in a different container, so there won't be any
confusion if/when I'm boarded.

I'm surprised by the CG response. There have been several events I attended
where the CG was make aware of the lighting of flares for practice. One was
held just a few hundred yards from a major CG station out here. Another was
attended by the CG. Technically, I believe only white ones can be fired as
practice without the CG's permission.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:17:45 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote this crap:


While flares do get old and have problems, as you discovered, there's
nothing wrong with keeping slightly out of date flares around. It's better
to have six flares in an emergeny than just three, for example. I keep my
slightly expired flares in a different container, so there won't be any
confusion if/when I'm boarded.

Always use the oldest flares first. of course, if there's an
emergency, shoot whatever you can reach for.


I'm surprised by the CG response. There have been several events I attended
where the CG was make aware of the lighting of flares for practice. One was
held just a few hundred yards from a major CG station out here. Another was
attended by the CG. Technically, I believe only white ones can be fired as
practice without the CG's permission.


There's white flares?




I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

"Bloody Horvath" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised by the CG response. There have been several events I
attended
where the CG was make aware of the lighting of flares for practice. One
was
held just a few hundred yards from a major CG station out here. Another
was
attended by the CG. Technically, I believe only white ones can be fired as
practice without the CG's permission.


There's white flares?


Don't even think about crossing the shipping lanes in the English channel at
night without some aboard.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:01:12 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote this crap:

attended by the CG. Technically, I believe only white ones can be fired as
practice without the CG's permission.


There's white flares?


Don't even think about crossing the shipping lanes in the English channel at
night without some aboard.


Why the hell not? I fear nothing. I am Horvath! My father was
Horvath! My Grandfather was Horvath! My name will live forever!





I'm Horvath and I approve of this post.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:17:45 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Our local club had a "flare shoot" event yesterday, where people
brought a few out-dated flares to practice firing them. It's a great
idea to become familiar with how your flares work, so that under
stress & in difficult circumstances, it will be more likely that you
can successfully use them.

Here is what we learned: More expensive really is better. We have a
25mm flare pistol instead of a 12g, and the aerial flares it shoots go
more than twice as high and are more than twice as bright. Needless to
say, the gun & it's flares are a good bit more expensive (maybe more
than 2x). It also has noticable recoil and a MUCH louder report.

The oldest flares in the shoot expired in the late 1980s (no it wasn't
me that had kept them all those years). The flares still burned
brightly, but the match-style strikers were soft & crumbly &
ineffective. It would be very difficult or impossible to light one of
these in a storm, however once you got one going you could chain-smoke
them easily.

The flares we brought were between 5 & 12 years old, and all except
one (more below) worked perfectly.

Paines-Wessex makes a hand held flare that has a compression striker
inside a spring-loaded cap (labelled Mark 7). They are easy to light,
the striker is sealed, and they are more than twice as bright as the
cheaper more common Orion handheld flares. I'm getting some as soon as
I can find them.

In general, SOLAS-rated flares are lot better and worth the extra
money... it is far more difficult to see distress signals under
adverse conditions than you can believe, until you've been there.

Hand held flares drip burning phosphorus/paraffin so they must be held
carefully.

Orange smoke markers are great. They will attract a lot more attention
during the daytime than a flare. Unlike normal flares, burning two at
once will be much more effective.

An alternative to the flare gun are the hand launched rockets. I have
bunch of these, and some are expired, so I brought one to see how it
would work. Unfortunately, the striker failed. It was one of those
pull-string kind and I don't know if it wasn't pulled sharply enough
or if the striker was defective. However, I now realize that these
things are very limited and you don't get a second chance to try them.
I won't be getting more, but I may look for some percussion cap
ignited HH rockets.

I'm not sure what was permissions were necessary to do this, I have
asked the USCG before to hold a practice flare shoot and they always
laughed and said 'Not only no, but H#%% NO!' I have practiced shooting
flares on the 4th of July but that's not approved either. One thing to
be careful of is accidentally setting underbrush on fire ashore... yes
it really happens!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Excellent report! A couple of items... one I'm sure is obvious...

Make sure you stay well away from people and sails. It's really easy to
burn
up a sail.

While flares do get old and have problems, as you discovered, there's
nothing wrong with keeping slightly out of date flares around. It's better
to have six flares in an emergeny than just three, for example. I keep my
slightly expired flares in a different container, so there won't be any
confusion if/when I'm boarded.

I'm surprised by the CG response. There have been several events I
attended
where the CG was make aware of the lighting of flares for practice. One
was
held just a few hundred yards from a major CG station out here. Another
was
attended by the CG. Technically, I believe only white ones can be fired as
practice without the CG's permission.

USCG official policy is that they no longer want their personnel involved
in
these events. This subject has been brought up before in usenet, and
someone was
able to provide a link to something definitive from the USCG saying they
were no
longer permitted. The reason is that old flares, like old explosives, are
less
predictable in their behavior, and a flare that ignites but doesn't fly,
or goes
up 20 feet and comes down on you, or goes sideways, or whatever, might
cause
injury.




I wouldn't doubt it. At the last major event I participated in, the CG was
present, giving demos of various things. One of the demos was firing rocket
flares. One didn't fire properly and almost hit a sailboat under full sail.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:16:57 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:


If a flare lands on the deck of a boat, good luck! It will burn it's way
down
and out through the bottom very quickly while you try and figure out what
you
have on board that will extinguish a magnesium fire. (hint: you don't have
anything) They will burn right through the bottom of a metal bucket.



Burning magnesium is easily extinguished with a Pyrene fire extinguisher.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:18:29 -0600, "Roger Helio"
wrote:


Burning magnesium is easily extinguished with a Pyrene fire extinguisher.


I wonder what these guys used?
http://www.livevideo.com/video/C08AF...n-vs-face.aspx




OzOne of the three twins

I welcome you to Crackerbox Palace.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:18:29 -0600, "Roger Helio"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:16:57 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:


If a flare lands on the deck of a boat, good luck! It will burn it's way
down
and out through the bottom very quickly while you try and figure out
what
you
have on board that will extinguish a magnesium fire. (hint: you don't
have
anything) They will burn right through the bottom of a metal bucket.



Burning magnesium is easily extinguished with a Pyrene fire extinguisher.


Yes, and EVERYBODY always has one available.


Pyrene fire extinguishers where the defacto fire extinguisher aboard boats
up until the 1950's.

http://www.vintagefe.com/chriscraft.html

Two problems:

1. They used carbon tetrachloride as the agent which affects the human brain
("mad hatter").

2. When used on burning magnesium, phosgene (nerve gas) was generated.

Today, a powder substance also called "Pyrene" is used for class D
extinguishers which include magnesium fires. However, I don't believe it is
carbon tet. I would recommend mariners carrying a Class D extinguisher as
well as filling the mast with concrete for fire protection.